Abortion

[padfoot]

I once saw a picture of an eleven week old foetus. It just fitted comfortably in the palm of a hand on the picture. It was perfectly formed.

 

 

Yes, they are recognisably human and perfectly formed by 10 weeks. It's a misconception that foetues are just a cluster of cells until 12 weeks. Even at 8 weeks they are starting to resemble babies.

 

However, that is irrelevant to me, as I feel the mother still has more rights than the foetus, until that foetus becomes viable and can sustain life independently of the mother.

[chuckey-lee]

However, that is irrelevant to me, as I feel the mother still has more rights than the foetus, until that foetus becomes viable and can sustain life independently of the mother.

 

 

if aborted then it will never get a chance to get to that stage

 

Sproggie,you said it like I ment it,just couldnt find the right words

[pboae]

The difference in the case of self defence/ an abusive partner is that the 'victim' is culpable, that doesn't apply in abortions. So we are back to punishing the woman for being careless if society doesn't feel she has suffered enough already.

[EGAR]

I am pro choice but I think the upper time limit should be considerably lowered if it is at 24 weeks. It is 12 weeks in Germany for example. I live in Ireland and I find it sickening to see teenage mothers with a fag in one hand and a push chair in another. Teenage pregnancy is sky high in rural Ireland (don't know the urban situation).

 

Sarah

[Sheplover]

does anyone know at what stage does an unborn baby gets legal protection ( and Human Rights ) is when they are born ?

I think one of the reasons I think this is such an emotive subject is that its the only time ( that I can think of ) when a person can legally terminate another persons life

Doesn't that view depend however on when one classes a foetus as 'alive' or that they are indeed a person?

[boosboss]

With the resent debate in Parliament and resulting vote to retain the 24 week upper limit, it seems to make sense to resurrect this thread.

 

Any new thoughts?

[mooandboo]

My friend got pregnant to *see if she could* and then had an abortion When she decided to have a child she wanted he had a heart attack while being born because her cervix wouldn't open in time. I hated her for her first decision but wouldn't have wished her loss on my worst enemy.

 

I'm pro choice to a degree but having seen my baby on the 12 week scan and felt my baby inside me I cannot agree with the 24 week limit unless the circumstances present absolutely no other option.

[phoebejo]

DR JOHN PUGH - LIBERAL DEMOCRAT MP

"The moral reality is that if you abort a baby at 22 weeks you may - and you cannot know you are not - be aborting a baby or foetus viable within the narrow meaning of the Act. There are people in our world today in no way inferior to us in capacity, intelligence and beauty who were born at 22 weeks. That ought to give us cause for reflection."

 

MARK PRITCHARD - CONSERVATIVE MP

"I believe that terminating a child that's been woven and knitted in the womb should be a choice of last resort, not the latest manifestation of Britain's throwaway society."

 

 

EDWARD LEIGH - CONSERVATIVE MP

"In modern Britain the most dangerous place to be is in your mother's womb. It should be a place of sanctity."

 

BBC linky

 

And another

 

Those quotes say it all for me Whilst I would not want to stop anybody ending a pregnancy where their own life was at risk (very rare) or where the baby is severely handicapped or likely to die, the sheer amount of 'social' abortions makes me sick. There is no excuse for somebody having their fourth, five, sixth, seventh or eighth abortion And I would've liked to see the limit cut from 24 to 20 or even 22 weeks. They may not be in the majority but while babies are surviving at 22 weeks and onwards it is morally wrong to be aborting babies at the same gestation.

[Pendlewitch]

I really feel for the people on here who have had difficult decisions to make and they have my admiration for their bravery.

 

I am most certainly pro choice, I think it is 100% the woman's decision and although the 24 week limit does seem too late in view of some of the disturbing pictures on TV recently. I don't see how any time limit can be set in stone though, as has been said, it's possible not to even know there is a pregnancy until near or after that time. I do think there is too much 'contraception' use of abortion but how could that be prevented?

[wickychoo]

Us girls in the office have been debating about this (work is boooring at the moment!) and while we all agree that the medical stuff has come on in leaps and bounds, with babies being so premature but still viable outside the womb, the 24 week limit should stay.

 

The women that have such late abortions (generally - from reading published papers on the subject) are: young girls in denial, abuse/rape victims, women with mental health issues, women from disadvantaged circumstances and women who have had to wait that long to get the results of tests. And they are such a small percentage of the total number of women who are having abortions, removing this option from them - arguably the most vulnerable women in society - will only cause more pain and suffering. They are the ones who would be punished by changing the limit, not the women who have multiple/"social" abortions.

 

I personally would be happy to see the limit come down to 20 or 22 weeks, with the option of 24 weeks being available for medical tests that need that timeframe to provide a result *but* that would require the NHS to scan/test women much sooner than they do currently (AFAIK 19 weeks?). The pressure therefore on the currenly over-stretched maternity services would just be immense. How much more can that service take?

 

I also think that using it as a form of contraception (surely a contradiction in terms?!) is only a reality for a few women. And while that is abhorrent IMO it is only a tiny minority. Those women I do know who have had abortions have not made the decision lightly.

[sproggie14]

I'd like to see the limit reduced really but I accept what wickychoo is saying about why it sometimes gets to 24 weeks. I suppose I would like to see it reduced to 20 weeks in general and only truly exceptional cases going to 24 weeks. And the system improved so that tests don't take that long. I heard on the news about babies who were born and then had to have an injection to "finish them off". To me at that point it ceases to be an abortion and becomes murder

[phoebejo]

There is no time limit for babies who are seriously ill/disabled. Changing the law would not effect those babies. They are still allowed to be aborted at 40 weeks. Their heart is stopped with a lethal injection and the mother goes through labour and gives birth. So those babies can be removed from the equation, the law doesn't change a thing for them and neither should it because I'd rather a baby die in the womb than be born and suffer until it dies.

[zoe]

I do think that 24 weeks seems late on to have an abortion, however as wickychoo has said if you look at the statistics of the people who are having abortions so late I can't see that you could lower that limit. But that doesn't mean I'm comfortable with it.

I have had an abortion, I was 18 and an idiot. I didn't use protection as I should have done and it was entirely my own fault that I fell pregnant. I could never have looked ater a child properly and as someone has mentioned there seems to be a much bigger stigma to having a baby and giving it up for adoption than having an abortion. I don't regret that decision however it makes me feel sad (especially at this time of year as my baby would have been due at the end of may).

I'm definitely pro choice. I can understand the views of pro life supporters but I just don't feel that way. My own experience was a very nasty wake up call and I feel for anyone who makes the decision to go through it.

[Brenda]

I am pro choice, but I do think that 24 weeks is too late to terminate a pregnancy, unless very exceptional circumstances.

[Melp]

Like Zoe I had an abortion at 18 [1982] I was 9 weeks pregnant. I won't try to justify what I did, that's for me to live with but I do believe it was the right choice for me and the baby at that time in my life.

In 1996 I fell pregnant again but miscarried at 12 weeks. I went through hell during and after [complications with the surgery to remove the sac] and I blamed the loss on the fact I'd previously aborted [though there is no evidence to suggest the termination had anything whatsoever to do with it]

I then fell pregnant again late in 1997 and delivered a healthy [though small] baby at full term in 1998 [Ellis is now 9] I suffered during this pregnancy with various ailments but the biggest issue was the fear of losing her.

Pregnant yet again in 2000 we had the Nuchal Translucency test and were told that the baby had a high risk of Downs [1-100], we then followed this with a CVS [Chorionic Villus Sampling] which in itself carries a small risk of miscarriage.

Luckily for us, Sam did not have Downs and is now a very healthy 6 year old, however had he been Downs syndrome we would have been faced with a choice. Do we continue with the pregnancy not knowing how severe the Downs was, or terminate.

Had we had to make that choice, the earliest date for a termination would have been 17 weeks. Those of you who have seen a fetus at that stage of development will know that the baby is fully formed and that a termination at that stage is [usually] by prostaglandin [injection or pessary] and you go through labour, giving birth as you would at full term.

Would I have terminated? in all honesty yes I almost certainly would have though I'm not sure how I'd have coped afterwards, probably very badly.

I wouldn't have put the baby at risk of miscarriage from the CVS if termination wasn't an option though giving birth to a fully formed but dead baby must be very very difficult for those that by choice or medical necessity go through it.

It's wrong to judge people for choosing termination though I do understand why it happens. I don't agree with "social" abortion yet technically I had one myself at 18, but I do agree with people who make that decision [however late into the pregnancy] when the baby is deformed or is suffering from a life threatening condition [or there is a serious medical risk to the mother].

Termination at 24 weeks for no other reason than personal choice seems wrong and far far too late in my opinion.