Buying Or Rescuing.

[Houndwoman]

All of my own dogs have come from a rescue / pound background but I can't ever understand why anyone would want to stop breeding completely or how it would help long term. It would obviously not happen overnight but ultimately without some breeding you would indeed one day end up without your Beagle.......... Gsd, rottie, collie, greyhound or whatever your preferred breed.

 

Ultimately reputable breeders will only breed what they can sell. The problem rescue dogs face is surely not that they were bred at all but that they were abandoned / let down by someone after they had been bred

 

 

Sadly, whilst there is a vivisection industry and there are working Beagles I will probably never be without them though that is another debate Of all the Beagles I have had over the last 20 years that has been the source so I have not owned a Beagle that has come from a 'pet' breeder directly or indirectly. I have always taken on the really problematic ones and I have worked damned hard with them to give them some kind of life.

That doesn't mean that I don't understand the problems that come from the pet breeding industry, far from it as I am also involved with the breed rescue and know what can and does go wrong and have run myself ragged trying to pick up the pieces for the poor littler beggars that end up in trouble.

 

I recently sat with a family for two hours when said they wanted a rescued Beagle. They had never had a dog at all before but I did pick out one I thought they would cope with and spent a lot of time and effort explaining things about the breed to them.

What did they do? They went to visit a breeder who also occasionally kennels dogs for rescue and all my effort was wasted when they came home with one of the breeder's puppies. Needless to say they have really struggled to cope with him. He may end up as another rescue statistic

 

That is just one of the reasons I feel like I do

[Jacobean]

Yes Sam some breeders are very strict. The lady we got Bracken from gave us a good interrogation. I was convinced she wouldn't let us have him. She came to our house and we had to visit her several times with Tess too. Of course we wanted to see him a lot. She put us through a lot of tests we weren't aware of at the time. One of them being our reaction to all of her dogs and how we coped with them sitting on the sofas with us, trying to sit on our laps and pushing us for attention etc. She also watched how her dogs reacted and took to us. She didn't let us see the pups until she was quite satisfied we were in with a chance. Then she saw what we were like with them. We had to keep washing our hands and had to take our shoes off before going into the puppy room. Bracken came toddling up to me and crept up onto my lap then promptly fell asleep. Then kept moaning cos I apparently fidgeted too much. We have a contract here as long as your arm of all the do's and don'ts where he's concerned and if we ever are unable to keep him she has to have him back. She is our backup for him and Fergus if anything happens to us and we can no longer care for them. One of the pups was returned about a year later due to ill health of the person concerned and he has stayed with her. She says if they come back they don't move on again. She is in this for keeps and stays in touch with everyone. We normally meet up regularly with the family. She has vast knowledge on the breed and their lineage. Does all the tests to ensure the very best health wise and researches but they are a very healthy breed anyway.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Jacobean

[ReikiAnge]

The breeder we bought our first dog from interrogated us too - she was a bit scary (though I was a child at the time) but she certainly wasn't in the business of just handing over a puppy to whoever turned up with the cash, even though she owned quite a large kennels and bred a number of breeds. She insisted on meeting the whole family, kids included, and she decided if you were allowed a dog from her - and which one would be best suited.

 

The breeder we went to for our second dog wasn't scary at all and was what some would call a "hobby" breeder I guess. Her dogs lived in the house - though the mum and pups had quite a large kennel/run area in the garden - but they were real family dogs. I thought she was very nice and genuinely loved her dogs. We got to meet the pups' mum and grandmother and possibly another dog too, I'm trying to remember.

 

I suspect the second breeder would not have been considered as "good" a breeder as the first, but provided relevant breed health tests were carried out, with good results, I'd feel more comfortable buying from that sort of breeder than the first, if were looking to buy a pup (which is unlikely, ever). I preferred the more homely set up and the fact the dogs weren't kennelled.

 

Sadly, whilst there is a vivisection industry and there are working Beagles I will probably never be without them though that is another debate Of all the Beagles I have had over the last 20 years that has been the source so I have not owned a Beagle that has come from a 'pet' breeder directly or indirectly. I have always taken on the really problematic ones and I have worked damned hard with them to give them some kind of life.

 

A bit off topic but how do you adopt a beagle that has come from the vivisection industry? Are these dogs that were bred for, but then not required by, the industry? Or dogs that have been kept by the industry but then given the chance of a decent life? I was imagining that the industry wouldn't be very keen to hand dogs over to rescue?

 

I'm not in the position to have another dog now - and hopefully not for some time unless I win the lottery - but I'd be interested to know how you get to adopt from this source

[blackmagic]

don't breeders ever ask to meet your existing dogs then ?

 

I took my other dogs with me to the breeder's house , but they only saw them in the car.

 

We did spend a couple of hours talking.

 

As there are unvacinated pups on the premises the breeder would not want other dogs around them.

 

Also, mum was with the pups, another reason not to bring in other dogs. We also saw the other family generations.

[Mrs Mop]

I have 6 rescued dogs, one an ex racer, another an ex breeding bitch who now has a tracheotomy in, one has brain damage, one had really bad dog aggression when she came. Lots of problems to sort out and I am tired of sorting them so that the dogs can fit in. It takes a lot of time and effort to sort out all these problems that my rescue dogs have My dog aggressive dog is now a happy friendly dog but 2 of my dogs are now in the stage were it is quality of life only becasue their is very little that can be done. Past dogs have either been rescues or rehomed.

 

At the moment I am not thinking about any more dogs even when some have gone to the Rainbow Bridge, but if I did want another dog and wanted a certain breed, then I would be quite happy to get one from a breeder,pet shop, freeadds etc if it was the right dog for me.

 

To me it is important that a dog fits in with the rest of mine not where the dog came from. If there is a suitable one in rescue that the rescue was willing to rehome to me then I would accept that, but many rescues have very set criteria and if you don't fit that then were would I go. I would be left with finding a dog from somewhere else.

 

We are supposed to be a free country but more and more I see people made to feel bad because of were they get their dog from. This is wrong, many who do buy their dog also have rescues and will have rescues in the future. They give a lot of support to rescues by various means, there are other ways to help rescues besides taking a dog. All this does is send people away, I have walked away from several boards because of similar things. That dog that has been bought, if someone else bought the dog he could still end up in rescue or be used by a BYB or puppy farm so could be turning out litter after litter of pups.

[Houndwoman]

A bit off topic but how do you adopt a beagle that has come from the vivisection industry? Are these dogs that were bred for, but then not required by, the industry? Or dogs that have been kept by the industry but then given the chance of a decent life? I was imagining that the industry wouldn't be very keen to hand dogs over to rescue?

 

I'm not in the position to have another dog now - and hopefully not for some time unless I win the lottery - but I'd be interested to know how you get to adopt from this source

 

Ange, my first two Beagles came from Perrycroft Kennels in Malvern which closed in 1991 and were basically a puppy farm selling to labs. They were what were called 'purpose bred'. There were up to 1000 dogs ar any one stage but they got into financial trouble after bad publicity due to them having 79 dogs slowly suffocate to death en route on a ferry to a Swedish lab. 21 survived and were rehomed in Sweden.

 

The AR campaign stepped up dramatically after that and they just couldn't cope and the RSPCA stepped in to take the last 450 dogs which were hours away from going to a lab. Sadly the night before the RSPCA arrived 50 dogs were moved to a local lab so too late for them.

 

My others came from a similar place, Consort Bioservices in Herefordshire. They closed in 1997 for the same reasons. Couldn't afford the security needed to keep AR people away I went in there and helped rescue the first 50 and helped in their rehab and rehoming and then we went back 6 weeks later and rescued the last 126.

It was heart rendering believe me. Poor devils had never had a whiff of freedom or love and affection and it was a very long haul for a lot of them and their owners.

 

You wouldn't get a dog directly from a lab as they end up being killed either as part of the project or through being surplus to requirements. Even being the wrong weight or size means death once they are in the lab that's it

I have friends who have worked in those places and seen things you could only experience in your worse nightmares I will always refuse to be brainwashed now by vested interests because I know what they are about

 

Sorry this is a bit long winded but you did ask and there is so much more I could say but as you say it is off topic but I hope that explains things a little.

 

If a similar situation ever arose in future I am glad to hear there is a prospective Beagle owner awaiting

 

The interesting thing is that all the dogs came in different types even though they were obviously Beagles. They were bred in groups and certain types for a specific market or project and it was obvious there were the very small 'American' type, hunting types and also show type dogs. Hmmmm, I wonder where their bloodlines originated from?

 

 

There was also a family of breeders in Warwickshire that used to show their dogs and sell as pets that also sold dogs to labs. They have given up breeding now as far as I know. I went and had a look around their place when they were selling up but all the dogs had gone and when I looked in their dark metal lined sheds I could just see the hell those poor dogs must have gone through. They were filthy and I could see where they had clawed and clawed all around in desperation. I will never forget seeing that

Edited June 21, 2009 by Houndwoman

[sproggie14]

My others came from a similar place, Consort Bioservices in Herefordshire. They closed in 1997 for the same reasons. Couldn't afford the security needed to keep AR people away I went in there and helped rescue the first 50 and helped in their rehab and rehoming and then we went back 6 weeks later and rescued the last 126.

 

A friend of mine had two Consort beagles. Lovely boys but typical beagles, thought of nothing but food Every now and then we'd be playing and I'd catch sight of their ear tattoos and it'd make me sick to think of the fate they nearly endured.

 

Nothing ground breaking to add to the main topic. We had dogs from breeders when I was a kid and had no idea how bad the rescue situation was. First one was a working dog anyway so we had no choice and I think was from a very good breeder as I recall who bred for police etc. Other two were from farms so definitely BYB stock although well cared for. Now I would never have any animal other than a rescue. I just cannot in all good conscience justify paying someone to create me my "dream" dog when there are thousands of dogs dying every year.

[ranirottie]

Ebbi (rottie)is a home bred that was returned to me and then stayed,Kizy (jack russell) was a rescue from Ireland and Pixi (westie)was a puppy farm throw out from Wales. To me it doesn't matter really what breed the dog is or where it comes from,it just has to "fit". If I had the next one from Scotland it would balance out the British theme . I will have a fourth dog,not a puppy, and I dont care where it comes from or what it is, but I am prepared to wait for the right one.It took us 18 months to find Pixi despite numerous rescues coming and going. I think finding "the right one" is far more important than rescuing the first dog that comes along or one that just takes your fancy. The "wrong" dog in the "wrong" home is a catastrophe. Neither the dog nor the family are happy so what is the point in slogging it out when the dog would be happier in a different home and the family would be happier with a different dog.Not that I advocate giving up at the first hurdle either. I think rescuing dogs is a wonderful thing to do (obviously) but its not for everybody. x

[redditchlady]

Max GSD was from a breeder. Sadly we lost Max at 14 years old. Korky I bred, Tess had 1 litter and they were all tattooed in the ear with me as first port of call.

 

I took Korky back 3 years ago as that is what was in the agreement. I had homes lined up for all 8 pups before they were bred. All relevent health checks were done. Dad was Haemophilia clear. Hip scored 2/0. Tessie (Korky's Mum) came from 2 German imports. (Hips A clear) Tessa's hips were 2/2.

 

I would never breed again, but as a responsible breeder, you should take back any dogs that need rehoming. I hope that makes sense.

 

I have always wanted another Landseer Newfie, but a couple of years ago I approached a breeder in Belgium. Basically she sent me pics of previous litters etc. There was a waiting list for the litter expected.

 

When I came off the phone to her and looked at Mandy my Houndsavers foster girl who was Cancerous, I couldn't do it. In my opinion all dogs give you love etc, they all deserve a chance in life.

 

I do feel that people have an inclination of what type, breed etc they want. I was always a GSD person as I grew up with them. Now I have a mini breed and 2GSDs.

 

Providing any dog that comes here can fit in with the resident dogs, I couldn't care less if it has 3 legs, what it looks like.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is my 3 come first, but there is always room for another providing it doesn't upset the balance.

 

 

Sorry long post, but I hope it makes sense.

 

Kazz x

[ranirottie]

I agree 100% Kazz that it must fit in with the resident pack and I can understand why sometimes people want to "start from scratch" with a pure bred pup from a breeder. My Rani was breeder bought,was my soul dog and I don't ever regret my decision for a single second. I bred Ebbi (did health checks etc) and dont regret that either as Ebbi is so like her mum but so special in her own right.I will never breed again and my next dog will be a rescue.x

[cheryl33]

I desperately want another beagle but I know we are not the right home for them but one day....

 

We never took Henry with us too meet Molly and got a load of backlash off that over the last week or so. Big risk I know but its worked out great.

[Fee]

There will always be people who have a desire for a particular breed, and there will always be people who want a puppy and who don't feel able/prepared to consider an adult rescue. It wouldn't be my choice, but someone buying a dog that suits their lifestyle from a good breeder is an awful long way down my list of things to get het up about.

 

Puppy farmers and BYB, on the other hand, are somewhere close to the top of that list.

 

As far as 'the message to Jo Public' that's been referred to a couple of times is concerned (gawd, I hate that phrase and the implication that everyone outside the rescue community is ignorant/uncaring/stupid) are we all making the same assumptions as to what that should be? Are we really trying to say to people that anyone who chooses a non-rescue dog is somehow morally inferior? That seems like a good way to alienate 90% of the dog-owning public - including those who may gather experience from their first puppy and go on to be the rescuers of the future.

[mum24dog]

I just feel disappointment when someone buys from a breeder. Often it shows a lack of imagination.

A dog to me isn't a commodity to be bought and sold. I have nothing in common with someone who just has to have a particular breed, and even worse, a dog of that breed with a specific coat colour etc. That's probably because there's virtually nothing material in life that I just have to have, other than in general terms.

Of course I have my preferences like anyone else, but they aren't set in stone.

I have friends who breed and I wouldn't fall out with them about it, but I can safely say that I would never buy from a breeder. I really don't think that the guilt I would feel would allow me to bond with a bought dog the same way as I do with my rescues.

I honestly don't see the point of so many different breeds destined to supply the pet market. There is an excuse for specialist breeding of dogs that are intended to do a job but I don't class being a pet as a job.

I accept that rescue could not supply the demand for dogs, but that's the way I would always go. It wouldn't be practical if everyone felt the same as I do.

I'm very proud of our agility club - rescue to bought is about 50-50. All the dogs are well loved and cared for.

The rarest breed we have (a Spanish Water Dog) was rehomed by the current owner. We have a good number of merle collies, only one bought because it was a merle (and that has severe health problems). More of the merles are rescues than bought. We have 2 rotties - one bought from a breeder, one rescued from a totally unsuitable home. Both lovely dogs. Line up our club dogs and you'd be likely to lose money if you bet on which were rescue and which bought.

 

Pam

[mum24dog]

We never took Henry with us too meet Molly and got a load of backlash off that over the last week or so. Big risk I know but its worked out great.

 

I didn't take Charlie to meet Ross. I knew him and what sort of dog he would accept. It was fine.

I didn't take Charlie and Ross to meet Hazel. Same reason. Again, it was fine.

I did take the 3 of them to meet Eddie as Charlie wasn't too keen on terriers. I wouldn't have taken him if either he or Charlie had shown aggression towards each other. I wouldn't have been able to guarantee managing it and resolving the issues between them.

I didn't take them to meet Cedar. He was only a pup and it would have been fine at the time. Problems between him and Eddie only started after 9 months.

And none of them met Kye. I was expecting adjustment problems initially and was right but was confident I could deal with them. Meeting on neutral ground wouldn't have helped at all and wouldn't have influenced my decision to take him.

 

Pam

[suzeanna]

I think whatever you do, you can't please everyone. Dylan is a rescue...but he's from Ireland, and there was a lot of muttering not so long ago that Irish dogs shouldn't be rehomed in England, as we have enough our own. Rosie was bought from a breeder but we did research the breed very well, found out as much as we could about the couple we were buying from, and I had been on the waiting list for a rescue cavalier for well over two years, with no luck!

 

I think it's a mistake to see things in black and white....breeders are all the sons and daughters of Satan, whereas people who run rescues can walk on water there are bad breeders... but good ones too, and not everyone in the rescue business is whiter than white. About 23 years ago my now OH bought me a papillon puppy...from a woman who now runs a very well known rescue, which I know several people here have had dogs from. She was running a rescue then on a much smaller scale, but she bred that litter...and gave me names and numbers for ringcraft classes etc. I know several breeders in poms who are very active in running the rescue side, people can wear two hats you know. I would have another rescue dog if it was the right dog for us....but I would also buy again if I really wanted a particular breed and there wasn't anything in rescue.