Amanda Jvv Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I think members have voiced dissapointment rather than disgust when forum members have gone to breeders after being actively involved in rescue. Many of us, just dont post anything at all rather than give an opinion that might upset anyone. Having read various threads though, yes i would say those who dont agree with breeders on this forum put a hell of a lot of time and effort into rescue. Some of them just dont tell the world what they do Dissappointment is one thing but why rain on their parade? Good people, good intentions, all involved in rescue but they 'bought a puppy' so instead of saying nothing, they have to air their opinions. We are all very clear where most people stand on these issues on here. It just seems to me that people come down on that person for buying that one dog. That may further down the line end in rescue anyway after a horrible start. Do we really think that if that one person doesnt buy that one dog that suddenly the world will be sorted? Spend the energy not lamenting about the dissapointment but maybe educating people/ children/ media. (I am sure many do but but that was more what my point was about.) Instead of some people being self righteous and blabbing on about how many rescues I have, how many hours I put in etc. But I agree with you there are many who say nothing of their dedication. There are so many uneducated people about that know nothing of the dangers of byb or pet shops etc and those people will keep doing that but that doesnt mean that a lot of people could turn away from that dog in need no matter where it comes from. I certainly would find it hard to walk away. Reminds me of the story about the starfish: The Starfish Story Original Story by: Loren Eisley One day a man was walking along the beach when he noticed a boy picking something up and gently throwing it into the ocean. Approaching the boy, he asked, “What are you doing?†The youth replied, “Throwing starfish back into the ocean. The surf is up and the tide is going out. If I don’t throw them back, they’ll die.†“Son,†the man said, “don’t you realize there are miles and miles of beach and hundreds of starfish? You can’t make a difference!†After listening politely, the boy bent down, picked up another starfish, and threw it back into the surf. Then, smiling at the man, he said…†I made a difference for that one.†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LurcherGirl Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 ...never ever will I posted a picture of Daisy, I won't have people saying 'that's that puppy farm dog'... Why not? I post pictures of my American Cocker Jesse, eventhough he isn't a rescue! He is as much my baby as our rescue dogs and if someone is offended by that, they can very easily click on the back button! Vera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yena Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Why not? I post pictures of my American Cocker Jesse, eventhough he isn't a rescue! He is as much my baby as our rescue dogs and if someone is offended by that, they can very easily click on the back button! Vera Thank you Vera, I don't mind people having a go at me, just don't like them having a go at Daisy, an innocent puppy. She's don't nothing wrong, yet I almost felt like some people condemned her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Thank you Vera, I don't mind people having a go at me, just don't like them having a go at Daisy, an innocent puppy. She's don't nothing wrong, yet I almost felt like some people condemned her. I certainly don't condemn her, but I do feel bad for her parents and siblings, because by buying her, you paid money into a system that causes a lot of misery. I'm glad that you mentioned earlier in this thread that you hadn't thought about that aspect at the time, about her parents, because it made it clear that since then, you have thought more about that side of it. I'm afraid that I do feel that there should be some mention of the wider implications when someone buys a puppy farm dog, because otherwise you create an environment where other people are also likely to not think about how their decision impacts anything other than one dog. This is not an issue for many of the other people who have posted here about buying a puppy, where they can be pretty sure the parents were not suffering. I know it is really hard to not buy an animal if it's in a bad situation, but because it is so hard, I think it's really important that everyone is reminded of the wider implications of doing it so that at least everyone knows the whole story. That said, if we have a food thread, although probably someone will mention the suffering of the animals that go into petfood, we don't tend to go on and on about it and let's face it, feeding factory-reared chicken probably produces many lifetimes more suffering than buying one puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Fair dos yena again thanks for your honesty, however, like I said I reviewed the thread extensively yesterday, as I did at the time it was originally posted, I felt then and I feel the same now that it is how things get posted which cause the problems. Both you and emma posted that you knew, that what you were going to do would be looked upon negatively, you yourself posted that you felt what you were doing was wrong and it went against everything you believed in, yet somehow people are supposed to say "oh well thats OK then?" people who felt JUST the same as you did BEFORE you bought the puppy are now supposed to stay silent or congratulate you for going against your previously held principles and against everything THEY believe in? That really is very very unfair, and it is even MORE unfair to blame the forum and it's members for the discomfort that you feel about a decision that you chose to make public. Perhaps its time for yet another reminder about what we have always made very clear here, we expect everyone to take responsibility and ownership for what you choose to post here, it's unreasonable for people to post something and then almost demand that no one ever object or be critical - all that you can expect is that the staff will do their best to ensure things don't get out of hand. That's IT. You cannot predict or control what others might think. If people choose to go to a breeder, a pet shop, the free ads or wherever and as part of their decision making they consider what others might think of them and then go ahead and do it anyway, well hell, I would have thought it not unreasonable that you don't feel guilty and don't feel uncomfortable here just because of what some one else might think of you, after all that didn't stop you getting the dog so why on earth should it stop you posting pictures or participating on a flipping forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricc Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Fair dos yena again thanks for your honesty, however, like I said I reviewed the thread extensively yesterday, as I did at the time it was originally posted, I felt then and I feel the same now that it is how things get posted which cause the problems. Both you and emma posted that you knew, that what you were going to do would be looked upon negatively, you yourself posted that you felt what you were doing was wrong and it went against everything you believed in, yet somehow people are supposed to say "oh well thats OK then?" people who felt JUST the same as you did BEFORE you bought the puppy are now supposed to stay silent or congratulate you for going against your previously held principles and against everything THEY believe in? That really is very very unfair, and it is even MORE unfair to blame the forum and it's members for the discomfort that you feel about a decision that you chose to make public. Perhaps its time for yet another reminder about what we have always made very clear here, we expect everyone to take responsibility and ownership for what you choose to post here, it's unreasonable for people to post something and then almost demand that no one ever object or be critical - all that you can expect is that the staff will do their best to ensure things don't get out of hand. That's IT. You cannot predict or control what others might think. If people choose to go to a breeder, a pet shop, the free ads or wherever and as part of their decision making they consider what others might think of them and then go ahead and do it anyway, well hell, I would have thought it not unreasonable that you don't feel guilty and don't feel uncomfortable here just because of what some one else might think of you, after all that didn't stop you getting the dog so why on earth should it stop you posting pictures or participating on a flipping forum? in a nutshell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helly Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Dissappointment is one thing but why rain on their parade? Good people, good intentions, all involved in rescue but they 'bought a puppy' so instead of saying nothing, they have to air their opinions. We are all very clear where most people stand on these issues on here. because we are lucky enough to be members of a forum where we are allowed to air our opinions i guess I am glad to be able to say what makes me happy, sad, dissapointed or let down and you have the right to disagree with me. Probably why i quite like this place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yena Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 should it stop you posting pictures or participating on a flipping forum I've I said I stopped posting picture or participation, NO. I said I wouldn't post picture of Daisy and was not as active on the forum. I still post picture of my other dogs, and post on threads that I feel a need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Dissappointment is one thing but why rain on their parade? Good people, good intentions, all involved in rescue but they 'bought a puppy' so instead of saying nothing, they have to air their opinions. We are all very clear where most people stand on these issues on here. I don't think that one can assume that other members of an online forum share views on anything. You may be able to assume you have some idea of how regular long-term posters feel about stuff, but new people join all the time, some people lurk but never post, some people only post to say 'cute doggie' on a photo thread. I have no idea what those people think about issues like puppy farming or whether they are aware of it at all. That starfish story always irritates me: Chances are those starfish just washed straight back up again and got et by a seagull 10 minutes later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 should it stop you posting pictures or participating on a flipping forum I've I said I stopped posting picture or participation, NO. I said I wouldn't post picture of Daisy and was not as active on the forum. I still post picture of my other dogs, and post on threads that I feel a need to. Actually yena I apologise, the first part of my post was a response to Emma's posting above it However, that same point applies, why would it stop you posting pictures of Daisy? So what if some people choose not to comment or coo over her, I'm sure you'd find others that would, peoples opinion didn't influence your decision to get her in the first place, so why should they bother you now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 One more thing I would like to say is that there are people on here that have bought a specific breed of horse, from a breeder. Does that mean it's okay to buy a horse when there are so many racehorses that could be rehomed, we have places like HAPPA, Redwings, we have Trallwm farm etc. Does that make someone who buys, say an Andalusian or an Icelandic or a Knabstrupper horse selfish because they overlooked the 6 year old TB ex racer or the 16 year old ex riding school horse in a rescue somewhere? In fact, I would say the majority have bought their horses, is that classed as double standards? Interesting point. I'd like to hear why buying a dog (from wherever) is any worse than buying horses, cats, small pets, poultry - just to have a specific breed/type/colour - when there are so many needing homes already. I never hear any criticism of that kind of purchase. Why? Are dogs' lives worth more than that of a fish, say? For the record, I haven't posted my opinions about your new puppy, or Yena's, because I hate conflict; however, that's pretty weak of me, and not much of an excuse. I wish both of you and your puppies much happiness. If I'd been honest, I'd have said that I understand exactly why you did what you did, both of you. I can understand wanting an IG, and I can equally understand wanting to take a puppy out of a pet shop. Having said that, if I ever did it, I would never post about it on this forum, and I think both of you were naive to think that people would be tolerant of your actions. Some of us are in danger of sounding self-righteous. Believe me, when you're my age, you recognise that none of us is perfect. We all have "flaws", we all fall short of our own standards at some point, we will all need support and understanding. When that happens, I hope we all find it. Admirable though it is to have concern for animal welfare, it wouldn't do us any harm to consider our fellow-humans sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I've bought dogs, but they have gone straight to rescues, I've bought a pit bull, I;ve bought a few salukis. I have a much greater understanding of passing a pet shop and buying to save than planned buying. I've highlighted the bit I'm responding to. I'm not sure there's a moral superiority in paying money to get a puppy out of a pet shop or anywhere else to put it in rescue as opposed to taking it out of the pet shop or other bad situation to give it a home. The owner gets the money, either way. If I buy a pet shop puppy in order to remove it from bad conditions, and then offer it to a rescue, who suggest I foster it, and then I fall in love with it, and keep it - is that ok? In what way is that better than just buying it for myself in the first place? Are we saying that because I didn't intend to keep it myself, that it's morally ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricc Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 no it's just a view point as I can see that there was compassion and pity at the basis of the whim, rather than just I want, I was thinking about what Emma said in regards to breeders clamming up about rescue or older dogs etc.. I wouldn't buy a dog from people who were unwilling to discuss how they treated their stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricc Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 sorry I couldn't add this to the posta above no it's just a view point as I can see that there was compassion and pity at the basis of the whim, rather than just I want, I was thinking about what Emma said in regards to breeders clamming up about rescue or older dogs etc.. I wouldn't buy a dog from people who were unwilling to discuss how they treated their stock. sorry I missed the point a bit there, the pit bull was on an estate in peckham that I worked next to and was due to be disposed of in a very nasty way as he was too gentle, I payed £100 and he went to a rescue where he was kept by the then manager and went on to live a very happy life. I would happily of kept him except I lived near by and someone would have stolen him. Salukis went to breed rescue and were homed to people who wanted salukis but didn't want to go via a breeder. Again they were living in terrible conditions. i would happily do it again, with no worries at all, I wasn't satisfying my own personal I want. I really wouldn't be at all worried or have any conscience pricking moments if I did that again, I certainly wouldn't be looking for support by posting "oh dear look what I've done threads". I think the morally OK bit is very much down to the individual, but I wouldn't be at all surprised or offended if people thought what I did was wrong and commented on it. I think FOR ME it's the personal gratification bit which makes the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemstone Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 I would love to see photos of Daisy and any other dog that any one has got wherever they were got from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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