Buying Or Rescuing.

[Melp]

Sooooo,

A lot of us on here are pro rescue, a lot are pro [responsible] breeding, some of us are both.

 

My own personal opinion is that while there are so many thousands of dogs in rescue, there's no way I would ever consider buying from a breeder and I find it particularly difficult to understand when people who are members of rescue organisations or forums where rescue is promoted heavily, then go on to buy a dog.

However, I am also aware that personal preference, family, home environment etc do affect what breed or type of dog you can or should have.

I would not and could not have a collie. They are far too active a breed for my situation and whilst they're lovely dogs, they just don't do it for me.

I'm aware of the many thousands of dogs killed or rejected by the greyhound racing industry and am lucky in that the breed suit my situation in terms of exercise needs, size of house, children etc and I also happen to like the way they look. that doesn't mean I'll only ever own greyhounds though.

I like and seem to have the ability to care for elderly and ill dogs. Whilst they've almost always been greyhounds, we've also had a springer, cavs and of course the wonderful Foodog

I have openly criticised peoples choice of buying dogs when there are so many rescue dogs needing homes and I make no apology for being critical, however it is down to personal choice and just because I wouldn't do it doesn't mean no-one else should.

The lady who bought a dog from a pet shop recently was heavily criticised for her decision. How many of us have walked past a pet shop and seen the rabbits, cats, dogs or whatever and been able to walk away without a second glance?

Yes buying funds the breeders, puppy farmers, BYB's and idiots selling puppies from the boots of cars. Yes its wrong to finance the dodgy folk who churn dogs out to make a fast buck but when you're in a situation where the dog is in front of you its not easy to walk away.

 

I don't like other peoples choices sometimes and I don't understand them either. I'm also damn sure people don't like mine. Does that mean people are horrible, irresponsible or unable to care for the animals they have [rescued or bought]? No it doesn't, it just means they've made choices that are different to our own.

[tegk68]

Ahhhh a subject close to my heart!

 

I found it very hard buying a new puppy last year rather than going down the rescue route as I have done with the previous three dogs of mine. I have also found it subsequently hard to post on his forum and that is NOT because of anything anyone has ever said or some wierd paranoia thing. Mostly it is to do with my own guilt about it.

 

I am VERY pro rescue and I don't doubt that my next dog will be another Rescue. I appreciate fully the vast, huge, desperate numbers of dogs that are homeless in this country. It worries me no end and depresses the hell out of me. I try very hard to impress this on other people, locally or otherwise and to raise funds where and when I can.

 

I am also pro good breeders. Regardless of what you or I say etc, some, in fact many, people are always going to want to buy a dog, always, rather than go down the rescue route. I would rather see the end to BYB's etc and promote good breeders and influence people, if I can, to go down that direction.

 

I had my reasons for buying a puppy. I think some on here will know why and perhaps whilst not entirely agree, will understand.

[Mrs Mop]

I would love to see all the puppy farms and BYBs closed down but we do need good breeders to keep the breeds going and to improve them or eventually there wouldn't be any good dogs to have. There are many breeders who are trying to breed out the various health problems in their breeds, many breed clubs take responsibilty for any dogs that are homeless in their breed and many stipulate that any dog or bitch not suitable for breeding is neutered. We need these breeders and we need responsible people to buy pups from them.

 

I have a friend who bred and showed a breed of dog, her and her friends have been fighting hard to keep their breed from BYBs and puppy farms, up to recently they were successful but it only took one person who had a bitch to sell it to a BYB who then bred this bitch to a dog that was known to have epilepsy, the dog was imported from one of the scandinavian countries, and now this is in the breed. My friend has now stopped breeding. It is breeders like this that we need.

 

All 6 of my dogs are rescue, yes there are many rescue dogs without problems but there are a lot that do have problems, for someone with little experience of dogs adopting one with problems can be very traumatic, by starting with a puppy bought from a good breeder, they learn gradually and many often go over to rescue dogs because they now have the experience to cope with problems.

 

While rescues are full of Staffies, JRTs and Collies, there are also many breeds that rarely come into rescue, if there are not dogs of a breed you want in rescue the only choice you have is to go to a breeder,hopefully it is a good on.

 

Recently on a Staffy board someone put a deposit down for 2 Staffy bitch pups, luckily he put a photo of the pups up on the board, these were not full Staffies so he got his money back. With the advice that was given him he tried to research for a good breeder, also on the advice of the members he only put a deposit down on one bitch after he received answers to the questions on what tests had been done on the bitch and dog etc, and put a link up to the breeder thinking this was a good breeder. He has now been told this is a BYB and he doesn't know what to do. He tried to go to a good breeder but all he could find was BYBs. If this breeder has done these tests are they a BYB or a good breeder? It is very difficult to tell. He will be a first time dog owner so wants a pup instead of an adult dog.

 

Are some rescues any better than the BYBs and puppy farms, many lie to the people who adopt the dogs and don't give any back-up, if things go wrong hard luck. Many rescues do neuter, others put it in the adoption forms that the dogs have to be neutered because they don't have the money to do it, but many don't check. We hear stories of people getting bitces from rescues then breed from them because neutering was not in the contract or the rescue didn't follow up to make sure the dog was neutered. With the way money is at the moment I can understand a rescue putting the neutering onto the people who adopt the dog, but I can't understand why they don't follow this up and make sure the dog has been neutered.

 

When looking for a new dog the first priority is it fitting into the family and lifestyle, like Melp I wouldn't willingly go for a Collie or Collie cross but I was lied to and ended up with a Collie cross. It shouldn't have happened, I had a dog aggressive dog that I had to make sure was fine with her, also a wittering, brain damaged, husband who couldn't walk so stayed in the car to deal with so didn't look at her properly, she seemed to fit in, she does now.

 

Personally I think anyone wanting a dog has to do a lot of research, they have to look at all the options for both rescue and from a breeder as well as the breed, personality etc of the dog and breed and try to find a dog that will fit in with them, their family and lifestyle, were the dog comes from is secondary as long as it isn't from a BYB or puppy farm.

[owl]

If I hadn't raised one puli from scratch I would never have been able to rehabilitate the 3 subsequent rescued ones. Well, number 4 would have been OK cos she's really sweet but I would have found her hard to understand. Numbers 2 and 3 were right little stinkers and no amount of experience with other breeds would have equipped me to handle them.

 

And I will put my hand up and say that I did once get a bunny from a pet shop. I hadn't intended to, but she was there week after week growing bigger and bigger and looking more miserable each day. No one was going to buy her, so I did.

 

I wouldn't now get anything but an adult dog as pups aren't my scene, so it would be a rescue or other dog in need of a home. I can understand someone getting a pup where they may not be able to train an adult for a particular purpose and I'm pro limited non-commercial breeding for love of the breed and to keep good lines going. But the majority of breeding is unwise (through ignorance), uncaring (the greyhound industry and puppy farms) or accidental (mostly through not neutering e.g. farm collies).

Edited June 18, 2009 by owl

[Abby]

We got Clive (cocker spaniel) as a pup from a breeder. We searched very carefully but it was still hard and while I think the breeder was okay, she was also not the best, though certainly better than most.

 

I will never regret getting a breeder puppy for our first dog. We'd both had dogs as kids but found it very different to have one as adults. We'd had very little contact with dogs as an adult and we learnt as Clive grew up.

 

We also chose to go to a breeder because we wanted a cocker spaniel (which I also will not apologise for) but were scared rigid of the notoriety of puppy farms and 'problem' spaniels in rescue. I know better now, that there are non-problem spaniels in rescue, but I still believe we would easily have come a cropper if we had gotten a rescue spaniel, knowing as little as we then did about the rescue world and knowing nothing about rehabilitating dogs.

 

For our second dog we got Dylan, from a rescue which looking back did very little checks and took very little care to match their dog with ours. Their lack of care and our naievity (sp) has, as you may have noticed, led to all manner of problems in our canine family which we are still working on 18 months later. Getting a rescue dog, getting a breeder dog, none of it is necessarily easy and nothing is guaranteed. I'll never regret getting Dyl but I think Clive does, on a regular basis

 

One thing I have learnt very hard is that not all rescues are good. Some are despicable. There, I've said it. I'm not talking about any I know of on the Refuge. We talk about puppy farms being factories, well some rescues are no better. They churn dogs in and out with little regard for their futures, or the impact their actions have on puppy farms. I am still forming my opinions about this, but it makes me very very angry. And it does rescue in general no favours, in terms of reputation.

 

Will I ever get another deliberately bred dog? I honestly don't know. A year ago I would have said no, but now I don't think it's as black and white as I thought. I would definitely get another rescue, and would move heaven and earth to find the right dog in rescue before I ever considered going down the breeder route.

 

Without a doubt, loving the breed though I do, if closing down every last puppy farm and bad/ignorant/cruel breeder meant no more cocker spaniels, then I would cherish the one I have and wave the breed goodbye. I hate the industry, but that doesn't mean I hate all breeders, or think they should all stop. If they did, and we were only left with the current rescue dogs, what dogs would be left in a few decades time?

[cycas]

In behavioural terms, I understand that the first three months of a pup's life, and particularly, the period between 3 to 12 weeks are considered critical in shaping how that pup will react for the rest of his life.

 

So, three ways to get a dog.

A: buying a pup from a pet shop or unchecked small ad. I can't see how this is anything but the most-risky option. You are unlikely to get either a dog that has been well socialised during those critical first weeks, or a dog that has undergone thorough health testing. You probably won't get any kind of backup or support. You are completely on your own with any kind of health or behavioural issue, and the strong likelihood is that the dog has not had the kind of handling to get it off to a good start and may well be carrying either inherited genetic problems or disease picked up from a bad environment.

 

You are also making a direct payment to support the business of puppy milling.

 

B adopting a rescue dog. This varies a lot depending on the rescue, but a decent rescue should be a much safer bet than A: OK, the genetics will probably still be pretty mixed, you may still get a dog that started off badly, or a dog with genetic problems, but you are more likely to have some sort of idea what you are taking on, and have some fallback if things go wrong, and the dog will probably have seen a vet, is less likely to be carrying something horrible, and if particularly problematic, had some retraining and rehabilitation. The rehabilitation probably won't be able to completely fix issues that were set up by mishandling aged 6 weeks, but it should help

 

C : carefully research a breeder, choose a responsible one, and wait for them to provide a suitable pup.

From the perspective of someone wanting to have the best possible chance of getting a healthy dog that will get on with everyone and everything, or be suited to specific working purposes, I believe that good breeder who does the early socialisation and health stuff right can probably provide the lowest risk approach. Not no-risk. Although you are not taking a homeless dog, it is unlikely that when you pay the breeder they will spend it on creating misery, as in A, and in theory at least, you should not be contributing to the rescue dog problem, even if you are not helping it either.

 

 

A and B are similar in that you may well get the same dog from B, the rescue route, as was sold via A a few years earlier, but different in that B reduces the problem of homeless dogs, and A increases it.

 

B and C are similar in that if they are done right, you should have some idea what to expect, and something to fall back on if it goes wrong.

 

A and C are similar only in that neither reduces the problem of excess dogs being produced: B is the only one that does that.

 

To break the trend in this thread: I love collies and may well have one in future!

[Abby]

p.s. always said I'd never get a collie cos our lifestyle doesn't suit it (well, didn't, it would more now) but am a complete convert to collie crosses for us (Dylan :wub: ) and to collies in general via friends who have them

[vonny]

In the past I have always bought my dogs.

I used to show my Beagles and always aquired a new one from good well bred parents.

After I lost Dylan I started looking for a Rescue Beagle without much luck.

I now know of the existance of many Rescues but at that time I did not.

I saw a Basset on Many Tears site and to cut a long story short Rupert came home.

 

I have had two more Rescue Bassets since then,sadly one was PTS last year for health reasons.

I started to look for another young Rescue Bitch early this year without much luck and several dissapointments.

I then saw Patience advertised for sale on an Internet site,she was 13 months old,unneutered and prime breeding stock for a BYB as they only asked £100 for her.

So I bought her and had her spayed the next week.

She is an absolute delight and I do not regret it for one minute.

If I had not bought her she most probably would be producing pups that would end up in Rescue.

[yena]

I'm the person that brought a puppy from a pet shop and if you asked would I buy Daisy again, yes I would. She is a perfect little girl, given a good bill of health from out vets and doesn't give us one minutes worry. I was lucky????? Sadly others are not.

 

What were my reasons for buying a puppy. Firstly I'd got Dilys a puppy born in rescue, for once after years of having rescue dogs, I had one I could bring up how I wanted, not someone elses cast off's. Secondly I'd lost Yena, and I had room in my life for another dog. True I didn't go looking for a puppy, when I went into the shop, so maybe like someone said maybe she was brought on a whim. I'd gone to buy pet food and I always checked the puppies out to make sure they are alright. It's not easy going into check on them, the smell, the little puppies with nothing to do, sat on upturned boxes, one toy between x amount of puppies and puppies by themselves. It's not a nice place, made me cry the first time I saw them. All waiting and hoping for a good home. And yes true when I brought Daisy I didn't think about her mum and dad, and the living hell they were living in. I just wanted to give Daisy a good loving forever home and because of that I am at fault. Now, I don't go to the shop, to buy pet food, so who's checking out the puppies to make sure they are alright???? I can only hope somebody else is.

 

I've also had 8 rescue dogs since 2009, sadly I've lost 5, some due to old age, others due to illness and lately Molly and Tillee. We'd had Molly since October 2000, she's always shown some form of aggression to our other dogs (what ever Molly's previous owners had done to her, had really screwed her up). Within seconds she could just turn violent and sadly in April, Molly attacked Tillee and Tillee paid the price of the attack with her life. Tillee was so bad that we had to make the awful decission to have her and also Molly pts.

 

If I decided to get another dog, would it be rescue/breeder or brought from a pet-shop?? It probably would be a rescue puppy.

 

In my heart I believe every puppy/dog deserves a good home no matter where it comes from.

 

Now you can have a go at me if you want, call me all the names under the sun for what I've done. After all, I've heard it all before. Other might say, why I've I posted in this thread when I know I'll get slated. The reason why is, I can't believe now some people had a go at somebody for getting a puppy from a breeder. Especially when that some one, has already had rescue dogs and supports rescue. For once is it so wrong to get a dog you wanted and not get one that been casts away or screwed up by others. Please don't have a go at me for that last statement, I know not all rescue dogs are like that, just wanted a put a point across.

 

So slate me if you want, I've had worse thing happen in my life.

[snow]

I agree wholeheartedly that there are rescues and then there are "rescues" - some of which whose only real resemblance to a rescue is having the word "rescue" in their name.

 

Of course there are the "reputable rescues" who have a list of requirements for prospective adopters as long as your arms and make you feel as if being allowed to adopt one of their dogs is akin to wining the euro lottery and woe betide you if you don't pass their stringent requirements because then you aren't "worthy" to own a rescue dog (not any of the rescues on here). Those kinds of attitudes often drive perfectly decent people straight into the arms of the breeders - hopefully a good one but all too often people give up on rescue altogether and head for the free ads or puppy factories. Of course when they do so the holier than thou rescue police see that as validation of them not being "worthy" and can't see that they might have contributed to it in any way....

 

Then you have rescues trying their best with limited funding and resources who do what they can with what they have. My own dog came from a rescue which doesn't provide back up other than stating that they'd take him back if things didn't work out, they don't neuter but have it in the adoption agreement that it must be done - yet they rarely follow up and check; and whilst a home check clause is also in the contract it was never carried out. They are one step up from a pound in that they take pound dogs, assess them and have a non destruction policy, they also very much take the less popular breeds (staffies, rotties, pointies and mixbreeds which aren't of the fluffy & cute variety) and will keep them safe until they eventually find new homes. I found them up front and honest about the dogs in their care and whilst I wouldn't recommend them to a first time dog owner I would have no hesitation in adopting from them again.

 

Naturally like many people here I would vastly prefer someone to go the rescue route when looking for a dog, and I would prefer that the rescue used did a home check and a follow up post homing check, ideally the rescue should have done some behavioural testing and have a really good idea of any potential issues with the dogs, and for them to have an idea of any potential medical issues, and I'd like for the rescue to neuter/spay and to provide back up for any behavioural issues that might arise after rehoming; but I realise that ALL those things cost money and involve access to resources that are often in very short supply. I am also mindful that all those things take time and take up kennel spaces and foster places meaning that whilst those things are being carried out other less fortunate dogs may lose their chance of getting out of the pound.

 

Everyone who gets involved with rescue has to make hard choices, and all that should be expected of them is that they do the best that they can with what resources they have and that the dogs in their care are well looked after.

 

I personally feel we need to be realistic - not every one is going to go the rescue route, some from a lack of knowledge, some from bigotry or snobbery, some purely because they want a particular breed of dog, some because they want a dog for a specific purpose, and some because they had their heartstrings tugged and could not pass by...

 

There will always be people who will opt to buy a dog from a breeder and I believe that we should be working WITH those people to encourage them to do their homework, to choose a breeder who health tests their dogs, who is careful about genetics, who only breeds a small number of litters, who provides back up and support etc.

 

Most importantly I think we need to be educating people about the horrific realities of puppy farms and BYB's and working to get those closed down and/or fully regulated (which I believe would mean the same thing).

 

I don't want to see breeds become extinct, nor do I want to see the only dogs available to be crossbreeds, I want to be able myself to make a decision on what breed of dog best fits in with my household and my lifestyle, most of the time those dogs will be available to me via the rescue route, but I'd like to think that one day they won't be, that one day the only way for me to own a greyhound would be from a reutable breeder.

 

I live in hope.

[Melp]

Once upon a time I did a transport run for a rescue who doesn't post here.

I was asked to collect 2 dogs from the pound, the pound knew which two I was to collect, I didn't.

Anywayyyy, I arrived and was taken into the kennel block, past rows of dogs to the kennel where 'my' two were waiting. When I asked what was happening to the rest of them [30 odd dogs] the ENTIRE block was being destroyed that afternoon.

The hardest thing I've ever had to do [besides having my own dogs pts] was to walk past those faces knowing full well they'd be dead by teatime.

I would have paid money for every single one of those dogs if there'd been somewhere for them to go.

I have paid money to buy dying greyhounds from a disgusting trainer in Aberdeen. It contributed to the industry and me and others were slated for doing it but I would do it again tomorrow if the situation were the same.

I have bought a dog from the freeads which went straight into a waiting rescue rather than being sold as a breeding bitch [which was what she was advertised as]

For those reasons I will never criticise Yena for what she did. I almost certainly would have done the same DESPITE knowing what I know about rescue.

Its very easy to say you'd never do it, its a damn sight harder to turn your back once you've had sight of the dog.

[katie and missy]

i have my first dog at the moment now a rottie girl i bought from a breeder i rang rescues looking for a pup, all who would not consider first time owners for a rottie puppy or adult i had my heart set on one but i will if in the future when we get anther go rescue. my puppy was hard work really hard and i have learnt a lot from her and i will prob not get a pup again mayb even a much older dog.

 

i through ignornance i suppose thought that the adult dogs in rescue would have issues that i couldnt deal with i believed that why did they end up in rescue smething must be wrng with the dog. i now know that people are nearly always the problem and when looking at the sites i now get so annoyed at the reasons given for putting dogs out especcially older dogs. I do feel embarrased that i thought like that now, and i cant say even that my next dog would even be a rottie as its the stories behind them that now take my heart!

 

and that has changed since reading all the post on here

[Helly]

i couldnt buy a dog from a breeder. It just goes against everything i believe in. Maybe I am lucky that my preferences lie with greyhounds, rotties, dobermans, mastiffs, bull breeds, all of which are easy to find in rescue. Im also in a position of not having kids so no worries on dodgy temprements, and no visiting kids (as my family and friends know i hate them)

 

Im never likely to go into a pet shop as i have access to a pet shop wholesaler and buy everything trade price, and wouldnt go near any of the puppy superstores if i was being paid.

 

I guess the closest i would come would be like mel, to pay for a dog from a private sale to save it from a life of breeding, and pop it straight to rescue to find a good home. Even that would gall me if im honest

[Amanda Jvv]

Its very easy to say you'd never do it, its a damn sight harder to turn your back once you've had sight of the dog.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[Gemstone]

I don't really like to judge anyone on this matter to be honest. I have had dogs from all the "wrong" places. However, in my heart, I know that they were meant to be mine.

First dog was a present from a friend.

Second dog was a farm bred collie, bought off a farmer.

Third dog was a puppy from an accidental mating between first and second dog. Hollie came into season three months early while she was in kennels with Taggs. Mint was one of their puppies and was my soul dog

 

When Taggs and Mint died, we decided to get a small dog and another collie. We approached rescues locally looking for a small dog but were turned away because Daniel was under five and/or they had nothing suitable. I rang a Collie rescue but they only had bitches and we were looking for a dog. While I was on the phone to them, I mentioned that I also would like a small dog if she had any in rescue. She didn't but told me that she bred Cairn Terriers and had a bitch puppy but someone was coming to see it the next day. I couldn't get the puppy out of my mind and rang the following evening to see if she was still there. She was and so off we went to Anglesey to buy Toffee from a breeder. She was not a good breeder either, she was a puppy farm, I would say.

 

Then I carried on my search for a Collie.... By now, I had discovered dog rescue internet sites. I passed a homecheck with a Collie rescue but felt the demands that they were making were too much. I could not bring myself to take Hollie, who was then 15, on a seven hour journey along with a five month old puppy. So dog number five, Jacko , was an unassessed poundie that I picked up from the pound without knowing any of his history.

 

When Hollie died, we decided to stick with just having two dogs. This lasted a year and then I started to look for another young Cairn. I missed out on one or two in rescue before spotting Misty on DP at Friends of the Animals. Several emails and a homecheck later, we were off to pick her up. I was glad that I was finally getting a dog through what I felt was the right route. I really wanted another Cairn because I had got to know the breed and loved them and I really wanted a puppy because I have a house full of cats and was wary of bringing an older terrier in with them. I feel that I was very lucky with Misty because I have rarely seen any other Cairn terrier puppies in rescue. If she had not turned up then I *might* have ended up buying a puppy from a good breeder. I would have continued to support and promote rescue but I really feel that sometimes the right dog for you has to come from somewhere else.