Mal Not Well

[chickentikka]

One a day on the milk thistle should be fine Billy

 

Carole your gloop recipe sounds vile but fantastic. I forgot as well a pinch of turmeric - it has detoxing properties - you could add that to the gloop if you feel brave enough to make it

 

Mal is probably feeling pretty grotty and queasy at the mo - not in pain but just cack if you know what I mean - don't stress if he's not eating as much as you think he should be, at least he's eating, that's good.

 

This last bit is probably going to come out all wrong, I wish I was saying it to you rather than typing it. You can't make Mal's tumour go away, you can only give him a fighting chance of living with it but this may not work for Mal (I'm rooting my socks off that it does), so enjoy him, let him be Mal for however long he's got Now I'm crying like a great big girlie

[Carole Stitcher]

Marian, if anyone can give the best advice about a dog with a liver tumour, its you. The only person who could equal you is Muriel, and she doesn't seem to post any more.

 

The gloop was indeed vile, but she seemed to love it, it was the only thing she would eat consistently 3 or 4 times a day and because it also contained all the basic nutrients I worried less about her not eating other foods.

 

Curcumin is the active ingredient in turmeric and what gives it the orange colour. But turmeric only contains 3% curcumin and the stuff we gave Sooty was 97% curcumin. Billy if you choose to try curcumin, it is widely available on the internet, but prices vary greatly, so check around for the best price.

 

The research in curcumin came about because people from those nations who have a high curry content in their diet tend not to develop secondary cancers so there are those who believe that it has cancer limiting properties.

 

On 6th March 2006 we were told that Sootys life was likely to last weeks, she actually stayed for just over 9 months from then, we think the curcumin helped. I hope that Mal will be around for much longer.

[BillyMalc]

Carole, that just sounds vile! :sick01: But if that's what can make my Mal feel happier in himself then I will get a small food processor just for that - you wouldn't want to use it for anything else, would you

See, I was told that turmeric, cumin, coriander and cayenne pepper all had cancer fighting properties, so we've all been eating a LOT of curries (home made, so no dodgy ingredients in it), but like I said, Mal has now decided that the time has come for the vilest food in the world .... which he will have, simple as that. At the moment he just loves Nature Diet chicken, so chicken it is for my man :wub:

 

Question tho, they've done a bloods test, and this revealed that his liver is so sick - wouldn't it have shown that Mal is anaemic too? I've got iron tablets, can I just pop one a day into him, or should I ask the vet first, to be on the safe side? He's getting so many things as it is that I'd not be at all surprised if I'd hear a rattling noise when he walks!

 

Marian, you're absolutely right that I cannot make Mal's tumour go away - if anything because, in all likelyhood, it is a "side effect" of the lymphoma that he was diagnosed with nearly 2 years ago now. That's why I rejected the idea of surgery straight away. The cancer is in his blood, and taking parts of organs out ain't gonna stop it :mecry:

[Rumpole]

billy dont buy a small liquidiser ill send mine over with steve we only use it when we have puppies here

 

edited to say We at Fireside do not liquidise puppies only their food

[purple_mog]

thinking of you all

[Carole Stitcher]

They test blood for specific things, so may not have tested his blood count. Even if they did, if it is a tumour, it may have bled after they took his blood, so it would not have shown when they took it.

 

Our experience with Sooty was that the bleeds would happen suddenly, but briefly and that it would take time but she would recover. Each bleed did leave her a little weaker though and a note of caution, she did have a stroke after her last bleed, so if you notice anything unusual, keep your eyes on him (though I doubt I neede to say that).

 

The reason we used curcumin is that the research I read presumed it to be the active ingredient in turmeric and we could obviously give her less of that than turmeric to be effective (as the capsules were 97% rather than 3%).

 

I've never used Naturediet, but believe it to be a 'wet' food, so I see no reason why some or all of the meat element can't be replaced by that, it may even be better because it probably has a higher fat content and cancer REALLY doesn't like fat.

 

The gloop altogether contains all the elements of the vitamin B complex, but you can fiddle around with it as you or Mal prefer. As I said before, the honey was there to indulge her sweet tooth, if Mal doesn't have a sweet tooth, leave the honey out and if there's something else he likes a lot then put that in instead. If you don't want to use anything but the Naturediet as the meat element, then do that. Mal is an individual, as Sooty was, what pleased her might not please Mal. I will give you the advice Muriel gave me, 'go with your gut'. You know Mal better than anyone else on the planet, listen to yourself.

 

We chose not to give her iron tablets partly because she was so small and it was hard to determine a correct dosage. Too much iron can cause other complications like constipation or dire rear and can often cause black stools (which doesn't mean there's anything wrong, just the body getting rid of the excess iron, but I worried enough about her as it was!).

 

Still thinking of you all

[Ian]

Okay, we've come back from the vet and the news isn't good: Mal's liver is not working as it should. From the blood test and the ultra sound they have been able to determine that without a doubt. What they cannot determine for sure is if it's a very bad inflammation or a tumour, but given Mal's history it is very likely that it is The only way to determine this for sure would be for him to undergo very invasive surgery just to get the answer and then there'd be a big chance that the tumour is inoperable. Basically that said it all for me, I'm not gonna put Mal through this in the last months of his life. Because according to the vet we're looking at months ....

He's been given a course of Prednisolone to try for a week, if he responds we might carry on with it, if not we'll drop it, but that's all there's to it. :(

I've been crying my eyes out already, and I'm crying again while I type this, but I know I've got to pack that in if only for Mal's sake - and Kiera and Sparky of course, who have been terribly neglected this week

 

And I really need your help now, Fugees: I want Mal to have the best possible food that money can buy. He's not vegan anymore, because he just doesn't fancy it, so anything goes. But because I've only ever fed dogs a vegan diet for the last 10 years, I'm not quite sure what that would be. I know all the nice food's brand names, but would I be better off getting him pouches of Nature's Menu, or cook him organic, human grade meat? I'd assume that the latter would be better quality, but the first one might be better balanced for a dog with liver problems?

Please, if you can, let me know of any experiences you might have with feeding a dog with liver problems, and any foods/remedies that did or didn't work.

(I've got the milk thistle, but I might struggle to get that down him in tincture form so I might go and get the tablets after all ).

 

And THANK YOU for all your advice and support - I really don't know what I'd do without the Refuge :flowers:

 

Sorry to hear the news is not good Billy. I'm not sure whether there's anything more you can learn here - you've already fought so hard for Mal - best of luck for a continued & comfortable fight

 

http://www.animalcancertrust.org.uk/Links/...r.html#lymphoma

http://www.vetspecialists.co.uk/06_Animal_...e_Lymphoma.html

http://www.caninecancerawareness.org/html/...erLymphoma.html

[dirtychicken]

This last bit is probably going to come out all wrong, I wish I was saying it to you rather than typing it. You can't make Mal's tumour go away, you can only give him a fighting chance of living with it but this may not work for Mal (I'm rooting my socks off that it does), so enjoy him, let him be Mal for however long he's got Now I'm crying like a great big girlie

These are exactly the words I've wanted to say to you, Billy, but couldn't find a way to put it

 

Sending you and Mal so many :GroupHug:

[Laurel n Hardy]

still sending loads of good thoughts for the gorgeous Mal

[Abby]

Haven't posted before but have been thinking of you and Mal the last few days.

 

[barb]

I have been away for the weekend and was hoping for better news, I am so sorry to hear this, continuing to think of you and Mal. to you all.

 

Barbara

[Abigailj]

Please, if you can, let me know of any experiences you might have with feeding a dog with liver problems, and any foods/remedies that did or didn't work.

(I've got the milk thistle, but I might struggle to get that down him in tincture form so I might go and get the tablets after all ).

 

And THANK YOU for all your advice and support - I really don't know what I'd do without the Refuge :flowers:

Billy I'm sorry to hear about Mal.

 

We have just been through this with Rory (please don't let that scare you). His liver was enlarged and patchy looking on an ultrasound and his liver enzymes were raised. Thankfully Rory didn't need invasive surgery in order to get his final diagnosis (I'd not have put him through it). He had a needle biopsy done last Wednesday afternoon. He was at the referrals centre for about 3 hrs in total. They took cells from his liver, a lymph node and the fluid in his belly. Less than 48 hrs later we had a diagnosis. It cost about £350. I don't know if this is an option for Mal or not given that he is a good 6 years older that Rory was?

 

Over the 9 week period that he was ill and liver disease was suspected, but without a conclusive diagnosis (his blood results kept misleading us that he was getting better when he wasn't) he was given antibiotics like Mal and also a course of vitamins (pettabs). Diet should be low fat and contain some quality protein (not white fish though as that contains purines). Rory had autarkey senior or CSJ wheat and gluten free, plus an organic chicken thigh for his extra protein. We were advised to give him 4 smaller meals rather than two big ones as a poorly liver can't cope with a large amount of food at any time - he will get more goodness from small portions given more frequently. Other quality protein can be soya, eggs and cottage cheese. (I paid a tenner to get an article from the March edition of British Vet Association magazine -all about liver disease treatment and diet).

 

If you want to know anything else just ask (also sorry if I have repeated any advice already given - I have not been able to read all 12 pages)

Edited May 18, 2009 by Abigailj

[BillyMalc]

Thanks Abigail, I'm sure this must have been so hard to write Malcolm's poorly liver is very very likely a result from the lymphoma that was diagnosed with nearly 2 years ago - I've learned from one of the links that Ian posted, that he is likely in stage IV I guess it's a bit of a rock and a hard place thing, because while his liver might like low fat, cancer doesn't appear to like fat at all, so what on earth do you do with a cancerous liver??

 

He was quite a chirpy man this morning, and ate his brekkie nicely, but only ate a tiny bit of his lunch (Nature Diet chicken with a bit of cottage cheese mixed in), which he loved before, and he spewed it up again too He came to the door to say hello when I got home tho, so thast I guess is a good sign, but he's now back on his sofa, not moving at all, and I don't want to ask him to move either, and try to leave it up to him to show interest in food or walkies.

I'll try a few more tidbits with him, but if he continues to either refuse it or throw back up, I'm afraid it's back at the vet's

[ReikiAnge]

Billy, mine recently had a little of the Naturediet salmon and prawn (I know it sounds like a cat food but it's a dog food honest!) and it is really stinky - I rather liked the smell! - is it worth trying that one? Mine have the lamb one usually but we had to buy in a few packs locally when we were waiting for our next delivery and tried a few of the fish. It is lower in calories, which is why I don't usually feed it, but if it tempted him?

[houndzrus]

:GroupHug: