Class

[Katiebob]

People with real 'class' stand out. Our next door neighbour (the wife) was from a very upper class family. She married a doctor so, in the world of 'class', she probably married beneath her! She was a fantastic woman, mixed with everone, looked down on no-one and spent years working for the Citizens Advice Bureau. Sadly these days there are few real upper class people around - ones with morals and feelings for everyone - but they do still exist.

 

The greatest moan (from all classes) is of the 'nouveau riche' who look down on everyone because they have acquired money and believe that this is equal to being upper class!!

 

Me? I'm (lower) middle class cos my dad was a university graduated engineer. His dad was a shop owner so he was working class. I've worked hard all my life and now have a decent home and no money at all but I live in a home which a lot of people would aspire to. I also consider myself lucky because lots of people work as hard as me and don't have the same good fortune.

 

I don't mind what class of person I am - or who I'm talking to - as long as people are friendly, honest and genuine, that's how I judge people. I certainly don't base my judgements on people's class - other than I expect them to respect my opinions in the same way I would respect theirs.

Edited May 19, 2007 by Katiebob

[merledogs]

It's much harder for people from poor working class backgrounds though to make something of themselves. They have a huge disadvantage when compared with people born into money.

I meant what you make of yourself as a person rather than what you make of yourself as in job/career

[Trallwm farm]

People with real 'class' stand out. Our next door neighbour (the wife) was from a very upper class family. She married a doctor so, in the world of 'class', she probably married beneath her! She was a fantastic woman, mixed with everone, looked down on no-one and spent years working for the Citizens Advice Bureau. Sadly these days there are few real upper class people around - ones with morals and feelings for everyone - but they do still exist.

 

The greatest moan (from all classes) is of the 'nouveau riche' who look down on everyone because they have acquired money and believe that this is equal to being upper class!!

 

Me? I'm (lower) middle class cos my dad was a university graduated engineer. His dad was a shop owner so he was working class. I've worked hard all my life and now have a decent home and no money at all but I live in a home which a lot of people would aspire to. I also consider myself lucky because lots of people work as hard as me and don't have the same good fortune.

 

I don't mind what class of person I am - or who I'm talking to - as long as people are friendly, honest and genuine, that's how I judge people. I certainly don't base my judgements on people's class - other than I expect them to respect my opinions in the same way I would respect theirs.

 

 

Now this I see as sensible and very accurate especially about the new money. I think thats what " footballers wives "show is based on.

I wonder also if those that are rude have simply never been taught manners and that could be errant of all parents regardless of class. Logically Edwardian children for example would have been taught by servants as the time actually spent with parents would have been minimal.

The nursery was a kingdom rather than a room and thier manners would have come from Nanny and the secondary care staff who were but waifs earning a crust. Nannys incidentally were classed as family and ate alone or with family never below stairs.

Im not sure if this was because a lot were second/orphanded daughters of good families / those that didnt marry or guilt that the children were raised by strangers.

I can imagine how the Edwardians could bring about resentment because they took full advantage of all that was on offer regardless of anyone else. The queen mothers household would have been Edwardian based with its rules.

I just think everyone should have good manners towards anyone they meet and THAT is what lacks in this day and age.

Edited May 20, 2007 by Trallwm farm

[BeadyP]

Now this I see as sensible and very accurate especially about the new money. I think thats what " footballers wives "show is based on.

I wonder also if those that are rude have simply never been taught manners and that could be errant of all parents regardless of class. Logically Edwardian children for example would have been taught by servants as the time actually spent with parents would have been minimal.

The nursery was a kingdom rather than a room and thier manners would have come from Nanny and the secondary care staff who were but waifs earning a crust. Nannys incidentally were classed as family and ate alone or with family never below stairs.

Im not sure if this was because a lot were second/orphanded daughters of good families / those that didnt marry or guilt that the children were raised by strangers.

I can imagine how the Edwardians could bring about resentment because they took full advantage of all that was on offer regardless of anyone else. The queen mothers household would have been Edwardian based with its rules.

I just think everyone should have good manners towards anyone they meet and THAT is what lacks in this day and age.

 

 

I liked Katiebobs post.Very true.

I liked Trallwm farms posts too.I learn a lot from them.

 

I hope no one was offended about my post earlier.Its just I get peeved,when the idle rich are attacked,and yet the idle poor dont.I dont like the term idle rich/idle poor,it feels like a judgement attack,and who are we to judge others?

I'm on benefits,and sadly know more idle poor,than I do idle rich!

Personally,I dont care what either do.

I dont like thinking of people as groups,whether race,class,religion,or any other group.

[Trallwm farm]

I liked Katiebobs post.Very true.

I liked Trallwm farms posts too.I learn a lot from them.

 

I hope no one was offended about my post earlier.Its just I get peeved,when the idle rich are attacked,and yet the idle poor dont.I dont like the term idle rich/idle poor,it feels like a judgement attack,and who are we to judge others?

I'm on benefits,and sadly know more idle poor,than I do idle rich!

Personally,I dont care what either do.

I dont like thinking of people as groups,whether race,class,religion,or any other group.

 

 

I feel the same.

Its no more acceptable for someone green with envy slating one side or the other. We are who we are and if you dont like someone move away.

[loobie]

see this is where I don't understand the definitions of "class" your father owned a few houses and some people would say that made him a landlord/businessmen and thus middle class and if some one works them self up from nothing what do they work themselves up to ( being middle class ? )

can some actually tell me what the difference between working class and middle class is meant to be ?

 

 

Traditionally middle class happened when a job involving a white shirt and being in charge happened.

 

 

I too understood it as a 'blue collar worker' = working class, a 'white collar' worker = middle class

 

 

 

 

 

So people who don't work are either rich or taking the piss? Cheers a bunch. Sorry but I've seen a couple of posts along these lines - if you're not working you're "idle", and all that. This whole thread's making me feel very uncomfortable and if I wasn't feeling as sensible it'd leave me feeling a bit shoved out and looked down on.

 

I'm the underclass, if we want to go down the lines this thread seems to be going (ie. pick a class, any class, see who's best, as it seems in *some* posts). As for people saying they're not of class, I think that's great and lovely, I would love to say the same. BUT when it comes to those who don't believe class is a problem, it's generally those who don't get looked down on that say that, because whether we class ourselves or not, someone else is classing us anyway, as is obvious in the above post.

 

 

I too Kathy am part of the underclass. I am a single mum with 3 children on benefits, I am fit to work but unable to due my eldest son who is not in mainstream school (he is in a specialist unit), I have to attend his school at least 4 times a week, sometimes more than once a day

 

 

 

There's a huge difference between can't and don't or won't. Anyone with a genuine reason for being unable to work shouldn't equate themselves with those unwilling to work.

 

 

So where would you class me then - cant, dont, wont???

[KathyM]

I don't think you are in the underclass Kathy, until this thread I wasn't aware that one was supposed to exist. I think you are working class, it's just that you are unable to work at the moment. Errrrrr - have I offended you now ? You aren't middle class are you ?

 

Who am I judged on, me or my father? If it's my father, is he classed by his life or his dad's? Is he judged on his job/income or his ethics? Is this judgement made at the time of my birth or is it fluid? This all makes a big difference. How is being working class or middle class "better" than being part of the underclass? I'm not sure whether I'm meant to be finding comfort in people saying I'm not part of the underclass?

 

Life's fluid and dynamic, that's basically what I think. I can't put a class to myself that fits all the different ways of judging it - I could range from the underclass to middle class. I don't aspire to be of any class.

[boosboss]

I too Kathy am part of the underclass. I am a single mum with 3 children on benefits, I am fit to work but unable to due my eldest son who is not in mainstream school (he is in a specialist unit), I have to attend his school at least 4 times a week, sometimes more than once a day

So where would you class me then - cant, dont, wont???

 

You've already done that by explaining that even though you're fit to work, your circumstances make you unable to. So if you need clarification to my meaning, I'd say can't = unable to, won't/don't = unwilling to.

[GSDFan]

Who am I judged on, me or my father? If it's my father, is he classed by his life or his dad's? Is he judged on his job/income or his ethics? Is this judgement made at the time of my birth or is it fluid? This all makes a big difference. How is being working class or middle class "better" than being part of the underclass? I'm not sure whether I'm meant to be finding comfort in people saying I'm not part of the underclass?

 

Life's fluid and dynamic, that's basically what I think. I can't put a class to myself that fits all the different ways of judging it - I could range from the underclass to middle class. I don't aspire to be of any class.

 

 

I don't know whether being 'working class' or 'middle class' is better than being part of the underclass cos I don't know what the underclass is meant to be. It rather sounded from earlier posts though that no one wanted to be thought of as part of the 'underclass' so you should see it as being comforted when people say you aren't.

 

What is the 'underclass' ?

[mooandboo]

And if you forget the whole class issue life is much simpler & much sweeter

[ReikiAnge]

And if you forget the whole class issue life is much simpler & much sweeter

 

Indeed. Must say class is something I never think about, since college and until this thread anyway!

[murtle]

I don't know whether being 'working class' or 'middle class' is better than being part of the underclass cos I don't know what the underclass is meant to be. It rather sounded from earlier posts though that no one wanted to be thought of as part of the 'underclass' so you should see it as being comforted when people say you aren't.

 

What is the 'underclass' ?

 

 

Now, I am going to try and answer this, but I mean no offence so please don't take any. I would say that no one on here is part of the underclass, purely because of the forum that we are on.

 

However, the underclass is considered to be those that can work, but won't choosing to live off the state instead, don't care about anyone/thing, have children, but won't take responsibility for them, blame everyone else but themselves for when their kids go off the rails...am I painting the picture for you....they are the ever increasing drain on society, that people believe will only ever take out but will never put anything back....the underclass term differentiaties them from the working and middle classes, and gives the media something to use and the Government someone to blame....

 

I say no one on here is part of the "underclass" as I fail to see how you'd find your way to a dog rescue forum if you didn't care.

 

x

Edited May 20, 2007 by murtle

[Sherlock Bones]

Slightly off topic from the last post, but in my profession it is a white collar (and above) world, occupied by those with upper class accents.

 

In my first qualified job i failed to get a position higher than i was in because, I am convinced, that I didn't get any further because I have a local accent, no double barrelled surname and no land in my family. When i left i was told by a senior partner that he was glad i was doing well elsewhere because there was no future for me in the firm.

 

There was nothing wrong with my professional skills but i simply wasn't the right class. It's a sad fact that that kind of attitude exists today but it does.

 

I simply moved sideways and then went upwards. I am now in a higher position and with better prospects than many of the partners I used to work for. You just have to find a way around the Class aspect. It becomes a problem if you let it become a problem.

[KathyM]

I don't know whether being 'working class' or 'middle class' is better than being part of the underclass cos I don't know what the underclass is meant to be. It rather sounded from earlier posts though that no one wanted to be thought of as part of the 'underclass' so you should see it as being comforted when people say you aren't.

 

What is the 'underclass' ?

 

Class seems to be worked out entirely on occupation from what we've learnt at college, and the "underclass" is a nickname for the long term unemployed.

 

As for the comment about being comforted by not being seen as the "underclass", it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. I couldn't personally give a monkeys what class others see me as, as long as they're polite and respectful (which you are). I only really piped up because someone on this thread was not either of those and was actually bloomin' offensive.

 

Like I said, depends on what system you use to determine "class". If it was my dad's occupation, I'd be middle class (just), if it were my occupation, I'd be the "underclass" (if indeed it exists, although I'm sure it does). So you see, it's all a load of boll*cks anyhoo.

[murtle]

Yes - the long term unemployed/unemployable.....but not through sickness, ill health yadda yadda yadda but through laziness, lack of education etc etc.

 

KathyM - from what I know of you on these boards, you are far from being considered "underclass" you are kind, respectful and dedicated. I don't know what you do to think you'd be considered part of the underclass.

 

x x

Edited May 20, 2007 by murtle