Class

[Trallwm farm]

see this is where I don't understand the definitions of "class" your father owned a few houses and some people would say that made him a landlord/businessmen and thus middle class and if some one works them self up from nothing what do they work themselves up to ( being middle class ? )

can some actually tell me what the difference between working class and middle class is meant to be ?

 

 

Traditionally middle class happened when a job involving a white shirt and being in charge happened.

[merledogs]

I think class is something you 'have' (or not as the case may be) rather than something you 'are'. I have known very rich people who have no class whatsoever and very poor people who carried themselves proudly and with dignity, which is what I would call class

 

All this talk of working class v middle class is a bag of shite - who cares these days? I wouldn't doff my cap to anyone no matter who they were. I treat everyone as equals and they all have to earn respect no matter which so called 'social class' they come from. I have mixed with a wide variety of people over the years and people are people. I have told David Beckham to feck off to the back of a queue (he was trying to push in front of me) and I have spoken to Prince William on the street (and called him William, not Your Highness)

 

We all bleed the same, we all shite the same and we're all the same underneath the skin. It's what you make of yourself, what you do with your life and how you treat others that matters, not what you were born into.

Edited May 19, 2007 by madmerle

[Red Rotties]

My father in law worked his way up from being a brickie to an extremly wealthy man, he still sees himself as working class and still rises at 6,30 in a morning for work at the age of 72, although others who only know him since his wealth would see him differently.

 

Barry works and earns a decent income to keep us comfortable and for me not to need to work so we could be classed as middle class but are definatly working class as everything we have has been earned and not given.

 

But does it really matter? We all want the same thing, to have a home, warmth and food in the cupboard, that really makes us all the same doesnt it

[cycas]

working class as everything we have has been earned and not given.

 

I doubt that there are very many people to whom this does not apply. Very few people live off money that has not been earned by either themselves or their relatives, whether that happened in the last couple of generations, or further back.

 

A handful of hereditary aristocracy, perhaps, although even in that case if you start looking, you tend to find that they are often well off because of some 'self made man' in their family a few generations back that built up a successful business and invested the profits shrewdly. I'm not familiar with the more modern figures, but being 'noble' is quite a risky business historically. In the 14th and 15th century, the average 'lifetime' of a noble family was 3 generations: disease and war got rid of them very quickly, and new families were recruited from the squirearchy, which in turn recruited from the artisans and peasantry (not that anyone admitted this, of course).

 

How many generations of careful investment, planning and inheritance do you need before a family moves from 'working class' to 'idle rich' ?

[Red Rotties]

How many generations of careful investment, planning and inheritance do you need before a family moves from 'working class' to 'idle rich' ?

 

 

ask me in twenty years time

[cycas]

ask me in twenty years time

 

 

If you manage it, I shall send you a begging letter!

[KathyM]

If they don't work for living then they have too much money and should do something useful with it! Or they're lazy b*****ds and living off everyone elses money! Why are people living off the state classed as *working class*???

 

<snip>

 

I don't judge people by there supposed class, there are either good people or bad people, takers or givers!

 

I know who I prefer to be friends with!

 

So people who don't work are either rich or taking the piss? Cheers a bunch. Sorry but I've seen a couple of posts along these lines - if you're not working you're "idle", and all that. This whole thread's making me feel very uncomfortable and if I wasn't feeling as sensible it'd leave me feeling a bit shoved out and looked down on.

 

I'm the underclass, if we want to go down the lines this thread seems to be going (ie. pick a class, any class, see who's best, as it seems in *some* posts). As for people saying they're not of class, I think that's great and lovely, I would love to say the same. BUT when it comes to those who don't believe class is a problem, it's generally those who don't get looked down on that say that, because whether we class ourselves or not, someone else is classing us anyway, as is obvious in the above post.

[Red Rotties]

Kathy never let anyone make you feel uncomfortable. No one is a underclass. Circumstances can chance the course of lives, Barry and I consider our selves very lucky in the position we are now in but it hasnt always been that way. I lived as a single parent on benefits with three kids, yeh I was really racking the money in, but I was happy in my squaller and my children never went without (even though they didnt realise how little food was in the cupboard) and Barry has been on the skin of his pants more than once without any help from his dad.

 

Like I said in my post we all want the same thing so therefore it doesnt make us any different does it, I have been down and I have been up, when up there is less money worries but I have always been happy and never cared what folk thought of me, I always had friends that made me feel 10 foot tall anyway

 

Lesley x

[KathyM]

Thanks Lesley, you're right I know. This was the last place I expected to see class wars though *lol*. I should've just not joined in but some comments were basically backing the whole class system up - ie. you are only worth what someone else judges you as, and you are lumped in as the same as everyone else in your allocated social "position". I'm also uncomfortable with seeing people desparate to be seen as a "higher" class, and those who say they can't be. I wish we lived in a country where we could honestly say we're all the same, because some people on here are quite right, that's how it should be. But, that's not how this country works - we classify and we judge, even if it's not us personally that do it, someone else will (and sometimes we do it without even knowing it). I'm not usually bothered by that (I'm a "two fingers to people like that" kind of girl), so I shall leave it now *lol*.

[boosboss]

So people who don't work are either rich or taking the piss? Cheers a bunch. Sorry but I've seen a couple of posts along these lines - if you're not working you're "idle", and all that. This whole thread's making me feel very uncomfortable and if I wasn't feeling as sensible it'd leave me feeling a bit shoved out and looked down on.

 

 

There's a huge difference between can't and don't or won't. Anyone with a genuine reason for being unable to work shouldn't equate themselves with those unwilling to work.

[Kathyw]

There's a huge difference between can't and don't or won't. Anyone with a genuine reason for being unable to work shouldn't equate themselves with those unwilling to work.

 

Well said Boosboss.

Ray would rather be at work and earning the good money he used to than getting the pittance he gets because he can no longer work.

 

poor sod can't even do voluntary work as he is seen as a risk.

[KathyM]

There's a huge difference between can't and don't or won't. Anyone with a genuine reason for being unable to work shouldn't equate themselves with those unwilling to work.

 

I completely agree with you, it was the post I quoted that was lumping everyone in the same financial boat together as "lazy b*****ds living off everyone else's money". That kind of comment is frankly disgraceful.

[GSDFan]

Class? What class? When I was in school I remember being in class 1G don't know if I was top of the class or bottom. It still confuses me to this day. The class system was introduced by Grammar school people I think. It was very snobbish. Unless I miss my history it was also taken up in other countries in the empire at the time.

 

The class system goes way back, much further than the Empire and well before Grammar Schools, you must have missed large chunks of history lessons

 

Do you know where? I don't think I've every lived anywhere that was like that. Or if it was I must have missed it. I am intrigued by the idea.

 

It's still very much, doff caps and say please sir round here. The locals do it, my OH does it. I'm buggered if I will.

 

When two vehicles meet on our roads one has to pull off onto the verge. When the local wealthy land owner or his royal friends drive down these roads they automatically assume it will be the car they meet that pulls over, unfortunately they are right because everyone does. One day they will meet me in the Land Rover rather than the car. You may then see the headlines ' Prince ****** pushed off road by lunatic woman in Land Rover'

 

Our local land owner calls everyone by their first name. He was most shocked and visibly annoyed when I called him by his first name

 

I really can't be doing with anyone who uses their fancy titles unless they are using it in an official capacity

 

You can read volumes by peoples insecurities.

 

I think in most cases it isn't insecurity it is just an intense dislike of everything that most members ( or aspiring or pretend ) members of that class stand for.

 

 

 

 

I've known one footman quite well. He would have called himself working class because the rest of his family were factory or shop workers. But many of his colleagues came from different backgrounds, so I feel it would be misleading to put footmen in the same class as e.g. steel worker. My friend worked for the old Queen Mum, and he was quite happy there as she was gay-friendly and he felt safer at Clarence House in the 70s than he did at home in Manchester in a homophobic atmosphere.

 

See, you're so much more upfront than me. I said 'social life' rather than talking about gay-friendly places. I have wondered from time to time if there are any 'straight' footmen

 

see this is where I don't understand the definitions of "class" your father owned a few houses and some people would say that made him a landlord/businessmen and thus middle class and if some one works them self up from nothing what do they work themselves up to ( being middle class ? )

can some actually tell me what the difference between working class and middle class is meant to be ?

 

 

I think these days working class/middle class is much more blurred than it used to be. At one time it was obvious what class you were, these days it is harder to tell because even the working classes are on the whole reasonably well educated and clean. Some even own their own houses or businesses

[Fiona711]

"lazy b*****ds living off everyone else's money". That kind of comment is frankly disgraceful.

 

I have to say i totally agree with you Kathy , i also found that comment offensive and uncalled for guess i am one of the lazy b*****ds living off everyone elses money then as i dont work , but i really wish people could walk a day in my shoes and see how lazy i really am

 

Fiona xx

[GSDFan]

I dont understand what the issue is with the idle rich.They may be living off their inheritance,but surely thats their choice?

Why do other people have a right to say what they should or shouldnt be doing.

 

What about the idle poor?

Wouldnt they be first against the wall?Living on benefits -taxpayers money - and choosing not to work.

 

Yes, it is their choice. Like many things though the fact that it is their choice doesn't make it right.

 

As I've said before I'd put them up against the wall and then spread out their excess wealth. I know that has been done before in other countries and hasn't worked but I'd do it right

 

The truly idle poor - yes maybe they should also be put against the wall. Most of the idle poor are not poor or idle through choice though. There is a difference.

 

 

I think class is something you 'have' (or not as the case may be) rather than something you 'are'. I have known very rich people who have no class whatsoever and very poor people who carried themselves proudly and with dignity, which is what I would call class

 

 

We all bleed the same, we all shite the same and we're all the same underneath the skin. It's what you make of yourself, what you do with your life and how you treat others that matters, not what you were born into.

 

 

I agree with the first point

 

It's much harder for people from poor working class backgrounds though to make something of themselves. They have a huge disadvantage when compared with people born into money.

 

 

 

So people who don't work are either rich or taking the piss? Cheers a bunch. Sorry but I've seen a couple of posts along these lines - if you're not working you're "idle", and all that. This whole thread's making me feel very uncomfortable and if I wasn't feeling as sensible it'd leave me feeling a bit shoved out and looked down on.

 

I'm the underclass, if we want to go down the lines this thread seems to be going (ie. pick a class, any class, see who's best, as it seems in *some* posts). As for people saying they're not of class, I think that's great and lovely, I would love to say the same. BUT when it comes to those who don't believe class is a problem, it's generally those who don't get looked down on that say that, because whether we class ourselves or not, someone else is classing us anyway, as is obvious in the above post.

 

I don't think you are in the underclass Kathy, until this thread I wasn't aware that one was supposed to exist. I think you are working class, it's just that you are unable to work at the moment. Errrrrr - have I offended you now ? You aren't middle class are you ?

 

Thanks Lesley, you're right I know. This was the last place I expected to see class wars though *lol*. I should've just not joined in but some comments were basically backing the whole class system up - ie. you are only worth what someone else judges you as, and you are lumped in as the same as everyone else in your allocated social "position". I'm also uncomfortable with seeing people desparate to be seen as a "higher" class, and those who say they can't be. I wish we lived in a country where we could honestly say we're all the same, because some people on here are quite right, that's how it should be. But, that's not how this country works - we classify and we judge, even if it's not us personally that do it, someone else will (and sometimes we do it without even knowing it). I'm not usually bothered by that (I'm a "two fingers to people like that" kind of girl), so I shall leave it now *lol*.

 

I guess I'm one of the ones that says people can't say they are higher class and that they can't just move up a class. I do believe that. I also believe that there should be NO classes, everyone should be equal. Unfortunately short of my revolution that won't happen.

 

I completely agree with you, it was the post I quoted that was lumping everyone in the same financial boat together as "lazy b*****ds living off everyone else's money". That kind of comment is frankly disgraceful.

 

I agree Kathy