DanishPastry Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 I am also very sure they were not the only parents at that resort who had left the kids in the villa/hotel room that night and had gone to have a quiet dinner on their own for an hour. going by quotes in the news, they did not leave them for an hour, they checked on them once an hour, which is even worse. It is hardly the same as putting a load of laundry on or being in your garden. I feel so sorry for those parents right now, but I am sure they do not need my judgement right now. Not knowing, is a life sentence in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 It is very very sad that everyone is so judgemental on the parents and tarring them for something so tragic, I am also very sure they were not the only parents at that resort who had left the kids in the villa/hotel room that night and had gone to have a quiet dinner on their own for an hour. Totally agree. These parents and the poor child were horrifyingly, bizarrely unlucky to have been the victim of a very unusual crime that might possibly still have taken place if they were in the next room. The person to blame in this situation is the person who broke into a room and deliberately stole a sleeping child during a short period when her parents were close by, but not actually looking at her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobean Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 mooandboo that is exactly why I am very very protective of children in the family now. When I was small a lot of things happened around me that scared the sh*t out of me so I trust no-one and watch kids like a hawk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiona711 Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 I feel so sorry for those parents right now, but I am sure they do not need my judgement right now. Not knowing, is a life sentence in itself. Exactly the point i was trying to make in the other thread Anne Like everything else we all have different views and opinions on every subject and while it is interesting to hear other peoples , who are we to judge ? We dont know the full facts only what we see reported by the media and i am sure we are not gullible enough to believe everything we read . I really hope this wee girl is found safe and sound her parents must be going through hell right now Fiona xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 (edited) I think the point that is being missed here is that there was forced entry through the blinds. It is very possible that this little girl was being watched and whoever took her knew the parents were not there. If I remember rightly there have been children abducted in the UK whilst they have been in the bath in their own homes, with the parents downstairs, there have been children abducted from their own back garden whilst camping and the parents were in the house asleep, a child abducted on a two minute walk back home and the list goes on and on. Do you also feel that the parents lacked responsibility on all these tragic occasions ? Are they tarred with the same brush - I would hope not. If it would not have been that girl it would have been another at a later date, maybe another resort, whoever abducted her knew what he/she/they were doing You cannot be with your kids 24 x7, as a single mum of two, for the last 12 years I am very much aware of that as is Akitas It is very very sad that everyone is so judgemental on the parents and tarring them for something so tragic, I am also very sure they were not the only parents at that resort who had left the kids in the villa/hotel room that night and had gone to have a quiet dinner on their own for an hour. As I said on the other thread these were not single parents - they are a professional couple who should be capable of advising others better never mind knowing better. If one or both had been in the room there is a strong chance they could have prevented this and I can see no reason why they couldn't have been. I cannot comment on the other children you refer to without knowing ages & circumstances but would generally say there is a vast difference between a mature 14-16 year old and children under 3. Whilst I have no desire to burn any of you at the stake and do not claim life is easy for single parents there are laws about this for good reason. As for what should you do? I would say that husbands, ex partners, other family members - Mums, Grans etc all have a role to play in the circumstances outlined so far - surely none of these would see a 3 year old child at risk for want of a little help? Edited May 5, 2007 by Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhound pal Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 As I said on the other thread these were not single parents - they are a professional couple who should be capable of advising others better never mind knowing better. *ahem* Maybe I'm taking that the wrong way, but lots of single parents are a) professionals and b) wouldn't leave their kids alone. For years I've done everything I can to dismiss the common misconceptions on single parents. I'm a bit concerned where this thread is leading in respect of that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessandCos Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 As I said on the other thread these were not single parents - they are a professional couple who should be capable of advising others better never mind knowing better. If one or both had been in the room there is a strong chance they could have prevented this and I can see no reason why they couldn't have been. I cannot comment on the other children you refer to without knowing ages & circumstances but would generally say there is a vast difference between a mature 14-16 year old and children under 3. I an, it makes no difference whether they were a professional couple or not - what difference does it make ? I am a single mum of two kids and self employed and have been for twleve years - does that make me different to the "professional couple" who should have known better I think not. The parents could have been sleeping in the room next door and the same thing would have happened, and it could not have been prevented. I understand you don't have kids which is fair enough and you have your views, but to be with kids 24 x7 on holiday in a hotel room when they sleep, when would you eat, relax etc have some "me" time. I have been to these resorts and it is a common thing, kids go to sleep, parents go and have dinner quietly, and check on the kids at regular intervals The other abductions that I have mentioned were very widely publicised at the time on TV and newspapers, and they did involve all young kids under the age of 6 - I am sure a google search will bring them up. They all happened in the last 10 years or so. The press is quite obviously putting the blame on the parents as they have no-one else, and for legal reasons I am sure only tell half the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mop Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 There is a big difference to going downstairs to put a washing machine on and being about 100 yards away in another building having a meal. These were 3 and 2 year old children that were left alone, not 8, 9, 10 etc. At this age children are very vunerable and need us to protect them. Even when there are 2 parents, one is usually out at work during the day and it is left to the other parent to see to the children. They did check on the children, maybe it was this checking that the person who took her picked up on and was able to break in and take her knowing that there was plenty of time to get her away, there is no way of knowing at the moment and we probably will never know. Families do have to have lives, it is impossible to be in the same room as a child all the time and we can only take so many precations, but to me, leaving children this age on their own in this situation is unaceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtychicken Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 As for the questions of what age can kids be left legally at 14 a child can be left alone in charge of their siblings , but for me that would depend on how responsible the 14 year old was , as we all know kids mature at different times . Fiona xx According to Social Services, there is no legal age at which you can leave a child unattended. It is simply the case that should anything happen to that child whilst alone, you would be charged wtih negligence I honestly think that at what age a child can be left alone depends upon how responsible that child is. I would not allow my son to go across to the shop around the corner until he was 9 and had pointed out that most of the other children of his age were now walking to school alone. I was quite happy for him to then walk to the shop alone (after I'd got him used to it in stages - for my benefit not his ) but would not leave him at home whilst I also went to the same shop He did point out the ludicrousness of this situation and he is now left occasionally - albeit with the 3 dogs for company. He is now 11. I don't understand why anybody would take their children on holiday to a specifically family orientated resort and then leave the children alone or with a babysitting service. It used to amaze me on trips to Butlins at the number of children that had been put in the nursery/daycare service. The whole point of us being at Butlins was for the children. I'm not sure that many of these "babysitting" services are more than a stranger listening on the end of a phone and I wouldn't trust that to be absolute security for my children I do really feel for these parents, but how on earth could *anybody* think that it is ok to leave 3 children under 3 alone anywhere? It does amaze me how we all apologise for our styles of parenting or expect to be "flamed". We can all only work with what we have and know. We all do it differently because we are all different and our children are all different. I'm sure that many people would do things differently to me, and maybe criticise my way of doing things, but I still know that I am a good mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 The parents could have been sleeping in the room next door and the same thing would have happened, and it could not have been prevented. I understand you don't have kids which is fair enough and you have your views, but to be with kids 24 x7 on holiday in a hotel room when they sleep, when would you eat, relax etc have some "me" time. I have been to these resorts and it is a common thing, kids go to sleep, parents go and have dinner quietly, and check on the kids at regular intervals I don't have kids but I'm pretty sure I'd be over-protective if/when I do. Is it really true that lots of people leave their kids alone in apartments on holiday to go to dinner? I find that very surprising. I had no idea it was common. Not that I've been on holiday to a resort for a long time and I was in my late teens then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akitas Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 (edited) When my daughter was very young, up to the age of the she was a very light sleeper. Staying with her in the same hotel room would have meant for us to go to bed she time she did, otherwise she would have worken up when we move, switch the light, telly etc on. nd then scream the hotel down for being worken up. Isn't that a tempting option? I am sure the other hotel guest would have appreciated of that It is not always that easy and straight forward as it seems. We went to Turkey to a hotel, spend all day with our child had lots of fun, but at some point you just like to be an adult, without screaming kids around and having a conversation without interruption. I cannot remember the numerous times where I went to sleep with my daughter because she was ill, or didn't go to sleep without me being there. If you have a situation like that (as an adult) for a certain length of time you just crave some "adult" time. And after all, the parents are on a holiday as well, with becoming a parent you don't lose your interests as an adult. I feel very much for the parents, they must feel horrible and probably will never forgive themselves for what they did. I hope the little girl will be found safe and sound. Edited May 5, 2007 by akitas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoebejo Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 If they were my children they would never ever have been left alone in a hotel room. There is just no need for it. According to the papers today the family were on holiday with a number of other couples and children. All it needed was for one of those adults to remain behind to care for all the children while the other adults had their meal out. It's highly unlikely a child would have been abducted if an adult was looking after them. It's bad enough to have left the children but to check on them hourly is shocking too. What if one of them was sick just a few minutes after they were checked on? What if one needed a drink or help going to the toilet? We've been on holiday abroad a few times with the girls. They've all enjoyed the evening entertainment in the hotels, kids disco etc and when one of them has said they wanted to go to bed either Ian or myself has gone back to our room with them. One of us stays in the hotel room while the other stays with the girls who want to stay up. Simple. Yes it'd be nice to have time alone with Ian but it has never occured to us to leave the girls on their own in a strange place. They've been to the kids clubs in the hotels and we've stayed on site just so that we are nearby if anything happened. It is tough though figuring out when is the right time to allow them some freedom and some time to do things without parental supervision. We all have to use our own judgement. We're having second thoughts about moving back to MK because we feel that our children can have a greater freedom here. Nothing ever happens in Faringdon, it has one of the lowest crime rates in the Thames Valley and probably the country. The same certainly cannot be said for MK. Daisy and Molly (aged almost 10 and 8) walk to school on their own and they are allowed to walk into town together. We couldn't let them do that in MK. There are no busy roads for them to cross and our town centre consists of a small handful of shops a few minutes from our house. When I was their age I was out all day playing with friends and the only condition was that I was home for dinner at 5pm, Ian says he was cycling to Highworth, nothing happened to us. I don't think our country is a less safe place than it was years ago yet we do allow our children less freedom than we had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooandboo Posted May 5, 2007 Report Share Posted May 5, 2007 I really don't understand the concept of *adult time* but I think that it's probably because I had plenty of that before I had Ceri at the age of 33 and I cherish every minute I have with him. I don't mind the fact that he's never been to bed before 10pm even though it's incredibly tiring sometimes. He's been wonderful company from the start & I've no doubt will continue to be so. Jacobean Cheryl, I know exactly how you feel - we were keen to move to Hampshire before we moved here as we had good friends there but then we found out that there were regular *paedophile warnings* from the police in the area they were living & we didn't feel comfortable at all so moved here instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiona711 Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 According to Social Services, there is no legal age at which you can leave a child unattended. It is simply the case that should anything happen to that child whilst alone, you would be charged wtih negligence Our local social services also told me that the age limit for leaving children alone is a grey area on the legal side ,and as you say if anything happens the parents would be seen as being responsible and could be charged with negligence , I was talking specifically about the age a child can be left with their siblings not alone and up here in Scotland it is 14 im not sure about the rest of the uk though Fiona xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricc Posted May 6, 2007 Report Share Posted May 6, 2007 I am with Moo and Boo, I have never left my son with anyone other than his nan and grandad, and I don't really understand all this stuff about me time. I had my son when 19, I knew that it would involve me and Mark loosing a lot of our social life, so be it. Liam came everywhere with us and if Liam was not welcome then we didn't go. IMO and this could be construed as harsh, I am sorry, nobody is forced to have children, if you feel that you want a lot of time without them than don't have them, its very easy in this day and age to prevent them. Leaving little children on their own like that is criminal, I do feel sorry for the parents but, again I feel that it is a situation which should never have occured. My son was left when he was around 12 I think. I work with people whose children are in childcare, it takes most of the salary of the person who is working, what on earth is the point of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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