Rescue Who Also Breeds?

[Melp]

In the case of shock collars it most definitely IS a black and white matter. No matter how much money this person raises for good causes and whether I agree with her breeding or not, she uses shock collars and thats bad enough.

[ReikiAnge]

All animals have equal chance of ending up in rescue regardless of who breeds it.

 

I don't agree with that. I'm not a "fan" of breeding, all my dogs as an adult (ie when it was my decision) have been rescues and always will be until there are no more dogs in rescue.

 

However I don't believe that a dog bred by someone like Di (Katiebob), for example, is as likely to end up in rescue as one bred by someone that is motivated by nothing other than money and doesn't do the healthchecks, homechecks, careful selection etc. I couldn't breed, even if I had the knowledge and experience to, as it just wouldn't sit comfortably with me, but I don't think for one moment that all breeders are equal.

[Kathyw]

I don't get it.

 

I have never been a 'breed' type person having mostly taken waifs and strays, only breed dogs we ever had were Rough Collies, my Mum had two of them bought from a breeder. I loved the dogs but was not happy with buying from a breeder. Breeder was KC recommended and as I lived under their roof - didn't have a lot of say in the matter.

 

But once I was queen of my own castle, I only ever had 'rescue' dogs - dogs that no-one else wanted.

 

When I lost my Maxie I was inconsolable and my dear old Dad, trying to make me feel better (he thought) said 'I'll take you to a breeder and buy you which ever one you want'.'

You could have heard a pin drop just before a sharp intake of breath from my brother. They thought I would go mad at my Dad but I understood he was only trying to stop me being so unhappy. Love had made him forget his daughters thoughts on 'buying a pup from a breeder'

This was in 1992 years before I had internet access.

 

Had all of the above not happened and I chanced to come on a rescue forum and saw and read what really goes on, I would have decided never, ever to 'buy' a dog from a breeder. In my mind I buy- one dies.

 

How can people who are at the sharp end still let litters be born?

We have all heard the 'Oh yes but I have good homes for all of them'. Sure till one of those homes gets fed-up with the peeing/seperates/has a baby etc. then where does the poor doglet end up?

 

Someone said that if all breeding was stopped and no more dogs were born, the person wouldn't be sad thinking of all the cruelty and abuse and abandonment the person had seen would cease.

 

I don't go along with that entirely but personally think that only a certain number of people should be allowed from specific breeds (to be determined by a committee, per year and every pup micro-chipped at birth.

 

And the breeder pay a certain amount to 'Rescue' for every pup born to their dogs.

Yes pie in the sky but one day maybe when a dogs true value is realised by every human being.

 

TF I salute you and your principles. You are in my Private Hall of Fame.

[Katiebob]

and every pup micro-chipped at birth.

 

All my pups are tattooed in my name. I haven't changed the ownership over to the new owners. They can get them chipped if they wish. I will know if any of my pups turn up in rescue although, as I keep in touch with all the 'pups' owners and they have all signed a contract to return them to me in the event of being unable to keep them for any reason, I'm fairly confident. You can NEVER be 100% sure - even rescues get their share of problems - but I do my very best.

[Fiona711]

I think we seem to be forgetting that the OP asked for an opinion on a particular rescue breeding and their methods eg x breed pups . I think we all agree under those circumstances it is totally wrong . But can we please not turn this into a lets bash all breeders thread ? At the end of the day whether any one of us that is involved in rescue choose to have either a rescue dog or a dog bought from a breeder it is our own personal choice and it is really nobody elses business we are all entitled to our own opinions and everyone is not going to agree , no matter what but tarring all breeders with the same brush will not achieve anything same as it would not achieve anything to tar all rescues with the same brush

 

Fiona xx

[Trallwm farm]

I don't agree with that. I'm not a "fan" of breeding, all my dogs as an adult (ie when it was my decision) have been rescues and always will be until there are no more dogs in rescue.

 

However I don't believe that a dog bred by someone like Di (Katiebob), for example, is as likely to end up in rescue as one bred by someone that is motivated by nothing other than money and doesn't do the healthchecks, homechecks, careful selection etc. I couldn't breed, even if I had the knowledge and experience to, as it just wouldn't sit comfortably with me, but I don't think for one moment that all breeders are equal.

 

 

Why ???

 

If Y sold a pup to X from Barnsley and that dog was 12 yrs old,the owners had moved several times and then X died are you sooo sure that when the husband of X dumped the dog in rescue that Y would be informed ?????

You are living in cloud cookoo land if you think for one moment that every rescue is going to track down the breeder. They sold the dog and they gave up rights. Why would any of us waste time making moral judgements on which breeder started off with good intentions or do we just save the dog.

To be fair Im slightly different because I take in dogs that have been messed up by people so they could be physically or mentally neglected. They tend to be particular large breeds and I can hand on heart say that never once would I have considered contacting the breeder to ask them to take the dog simply because the dog is with me because it was wrongly homed in the first place or circumstances changed.

To assume that dogs only end up in rescue due to a virtual class system is unrealistic.

Look at the St Bernard I had. She was on the KC approved breeders list. The owner still dumped her due to the snuffling noises and the eye infections. The breeder when I phoned him to tell him what he had bred was gobsmacked because " They were such a nice family". The dogs father had died of the same conditions this dog had.

Yet still he was convinced he was one of the best breeders who didnt breed many.

Some of the puppy farm dogs tend to PTS as genetic faults overtake them so this evens up the odds.

It would be interesting to run a poll on here.

 

Dogs in that we know the breeders of.

Dogs in from puppy farms

Dogs in from Breeders who think they do thier best

Dogs in from Breeders who dont want to know.

Dogs in who have a succession of homes since being bought from a breeder.

 

It would be interesting to know the true results because perhaps then breeders and rescues COULD work together. We would have a definate base of facts on which to base paperwork on. If for example breeders insist they want thier own dogs back then they could cover the pound costs of each one returned. Breeders could alter paperwork to make it legally binding that thier dogs are returned but then who would police it ?

Rescues struggle day by day with wonderfull animals that we havent a clue where they started. If Katiebob you got on the phone could you hand on heart say where every dog you bred is and if you visited would they be there.

Thank you to whoever thought it funny to get a breeder of both Fresians And large dogs to phone me for a pony today.

Thank you KW for making me your hero.

[EGAR]

If I take in a dog with papers then I always contact the breeder. That's not so say that I would give them the dog back. In 82 cases I've had over the years, only two breeders took the dog back and were very happy to do so. And so was I, considering I checked them out beforehand. I think breeders need to be given the chance to take their offspring back, many have signed contracts with the buyers and have not been informed.

[Trallwm farm]

If I take in a dog with papers then I always contact the breeder. That's not so say that I would give them the dog back. In 82 cases I've had over the years, only two breeders took the dog back and were very happy to do so. And so was I, considering I checked them out beforehand. I think breeders need to be given the chance to take their offspring back, many have signed contracts with the buyers and have not been informed.

 

 

well yes but that of course is if the animal is handed over WITH paperwork.

I have five Crabbetts Arabs with no paperwork. Dogs I wouldnt know where to begin looking.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Trallwm farm

[ReikiAnge]

I don't agree with that. I'm not a "fan" of breeding, all my dogs as an adult (ie when it was my decision) have been rescues and always will be until there are no more dogs in rescue.

 

However I don't believe that a dog bred by someone like Di (Katiebob), for example, is as likely to end up in rescue as one bred by someone that is motivated by nothing other than money and doesn't do the healthchecks, homechecks, careful selection etc. I couldn't breed, even if I had the knowledge and experience to, as it just wouldn't sit comfortably with me, but I don't think for one moment that all breeders are equal.

 

Why ???

 

Why what? Why don't I think all dogs have an equal chance of ending up in rescue? Because I don't. That's not the same as saying they never will.

 

Puppy farmers and the like don't give a stuff where their dogs end up, whereas other breeders do. Therefore I believe that the dogs of decent breeders will be less likely to end up in rescue. I didn't say they never would end up in rescue and I'm sure there are examples when they have - but I also believe that good breeders would rush to get their dogs from the pound/rescue if they were notified their dogs had ended up there. If they don't, then they're not a good breeder as far as I'm concerned.

 

Anyway, getting back on track, this thread was about rescues breeding, which I don't certainly don't agree with when we're talking about breeding from rescue dogs, crossbreeds etc.

[Katiebob]

 

 

Yes. I know exactly where they are and with whom. I have photos and updates every couple of months. We exchange Christmas cards and emails.

 

Don't assume that because you have met bad breeders that I am the same. I am fed up with being accused (in general, not necessarily personally) because there are bad breeders out there. I do not breed indiscriminately nor do I breed regularly.

 

I am a person and I have feelings too. Most of my feelings, frankly, are for my dogs because people whose judgement is clouded aren't worth bothering with.

 

I'll do my bit for rescue where I'm wanted. If you'd rather do without my help, that's fine - I know rescues who will welcome it. I've fostered quite a number of dogs for Irish rescues and got UK rescue back up for them - I won't deprive the dogs, or the rescues who need me. But I won't be accused by you of being irresponsible.

 

I accept this is a rescue site and I was very reluctant to post anything about me - I did so purely because there should be a way forward for breeders and rescues to work together for the sake of the dogs.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Katiebob

[snow]

Evening

 

Can I echo what has been previously said - the OP is about rescues breeding cross breeds from rescue dogs it is not a discussion on the rights and wrongs of breeding under any other circumstances, we are far far off topic now and if that continues, sadly this thread will be closing.

[Ian]

Why ??? ........

 

Rescues struggle day by day with wonderfull animals that we havent a clue where they started. If Katiebob you got on the phone could you hand on heart say where every dog you bred is and if you visited would they be there.

 

 

I've never met either Reiki Ange, you or Katiebob and have neither axes to grind with you, them or breeders nor any reason to support a particular person or view. But surely the answer to Why? was obvious in what was said? IE

 

A breeder that does health checks, after care etc is far more likely to sell to a good home than somebody who breeds for money and couldn't care less about who buys the dog as long as they get it.

 

Yes, I'd be very surprised if in the twelve years you suggest any breeder can tell you with 100% certainty exactly where their every dog is. But can you or any other rescue guarantee to do so either?

 

The problem is surely not so much the responsible breeder breeding too many dogs - breeders will ultimately only breed what they can sell at the end of the day - but the irresponsible breeders and the people who will quite happily obtain and dispose of dogs like commodities - whether they were rescued or bought as a puppy makes no apparent difference to those peoples attitudes.

 

As for breeding from their rescue dogs I cant see any circumstances where any reputable rescue is going to do it, advocate it or condone it.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Ian

[Sherlock Bones]

Ahem. Did Snows post suddenly disappear before everyone's very eyes? Get it back on topic, or it goes.

 

Evening

 

Can I echo what has been previously said - the OP is about rescues breeding cross breeds from rescue dogs it is not a discussion on the rights and wrongs of breeding under any other circumstances, we are far far off topic now and if that continues, sadly this thread will be closing.

[Trallwm farm]

[quote If Katiebob you got on the phone could you hand on heart say where every dog you bred is and if you visited would they be there.

Yes. I know exactly where they are and with whom. I have photos and updates every couple of months. We exchange Christmas cards and emails.

 

Don't assume that because you have met bad breeders that I am the same. I am fed up with being accused (in general, not necessarily personally) because there are bad breeders out there. I do not breed indiscriminately nor do I breed regularly.

 

I am a person and I have feelings too. Most of my feelings, frankly, are for my dogs because people whose judgement is clouded aren't worth bothering with.

 

I'll do my bit for rescue where I'm wanted. If you'd rather do without my help, that's fine - I know rescues who will welcome it. I've fostered quite a number of dogs for Irish rescues and got UK rescue back up for them - I won't deprive the dogs, or the rescues who need me. But I won't be accused by you of being irresponsible.

 

I accept this is a rescue site and I was very reluctant to post anything about me - I did so purely because there should be a way forward for breeders and rescues to work together for the sake of the dogs.

 

It was unfortunate that you personally put yourself forward as a breeder just as my opinion was as a rescue so we will both be used as examples. It was even more unfortunate that I was badgered yesterday as I didnt know you bred and couldnt understand what the line of interegation was about.

If you stay in contact with every pup then that is quite an achievment but then I must assume that you have not bred lots. I think this thread really refers to professional breeders. I know people who have bred one litter and found it the most amazing thing. I wasnt aiming at you personally but rather you were put forward.

[snow]

OK and with that - it's goodnight from me and goodnight from this thread.