Buying Or Rescuing.

[snow]

Now you can have a go at me if you want, call me all the names under the sun for what I've done. After all, I've heard it all before. Other might say, why I've I posted in this thread when I know I'll get slated. The reason why is, I can't believe now some people had a go at somebody for getting a puppy from a breeder. Especially when that some one, has already had rescue dogs and supports rescue. For once is it so wrong to get a dog you wanted and not get one that been casts away or screwed up by others. Please don't have a go at me for that last statement, I know not all rescue dogs are like that, just wanted a put a point across.

 

So slate me if you want, I've had worse thing happen in my life.

 

I wanted to add something ... yena I understand why you felt that you wanted to post since your original thread had been brought up elsewhere, I actually went and reviewed that original thread as is my way whenever "history" gets brought up since time often dulls the memory of what exactly happened, especially since when it was brought up it was posted in such a way as to support the fallacy that people who buy pups are made to feel unwelcome here or have been driven off the forum. I understand that once it was brought up you had a need to respond, and I thank you for that, you are also living proof of that fallacy, since you did not leave, didn't contact any of the staff to say you felt unwelcome here, and have continued to support rescue and be involved with the forum on a regular basis, as indeed have many others all of who have dogs obtained from a wide variety of non rescue sources. If the atmosphere here was so flipping unwelcoming and so anti breeding as some might have people believe then I seriously doubt they like you would still be here. So thank you.

[one.eyed.dog]

I am really enjoying this topic.

 

Not sure I am ready to post yet though.

[tegk68]

I agree wholeheartedly that there are rescues and then there are "rescues" - some of which whose only real resemblance to a rescue is having the word "rescue" in their name.

 

Of course there are the "reputable rescues" who have a list of requirements for prospective adopters as long as your arms and make you feel as if being allowed to adopt one of their dogs is akin to wining the euro lottery and woe betide you if you don't pass their stringent requirements because then you aren't "worthy" to own a rescue dog (not any of the rescues on here). Those kinds of attitudes often drive perfectly decent people straight into the arms of the breeders - hopefully a good one but all too often people give up on rescue altogether and head for the free ads or puppy factories. Of course when they do so the holier than thou rescue police see that as validation of them not being "worthy" and can't see that they might have contributed to it in any way....

 

Then you have rescues trying their best with limited funding and resources who do what they can with what they have. My own dog came from a rescue which doesn't provide back up other than stating that they'd take him back if things didn't work out, they don't neuter but have it in the adoption agreement that it must be done - yet they rarely follow up and check; and whilst a home check clause is also in the contract it was never carried out. They are one step up from a pound in that they take pound dogs, assess them and have a non destruction policy, they also very much take the less popular breeds (staffies, rotties, pointies and mixbreeds which aren't of the fluffy & cute variety) and will keep them safe until they eventually find new homes. I found them up front and honest about the dogs in their care and whilst I wouldn't recommend them to a first time dog owner I would have no hesitation in adopting from them again.

 

Naturally like many people here I would vastly prefer someone to go the rescue route when looking for a dog, and I would prefer that the rescue used did a home check and a follow up post homing check, ideally the rescue should have done some behavioural testing and have a really good idea of any potential issues with the dogs, and for them to have an idea of any potential medical issues, and I'd like for the rescue to neuter/spay and to provide back up for any behavioural issues that might arise after rehoming; but I realise that ALL those things cost money and involve access to resources that are often in very short supply. I am also mindful that all those things take time and take up kennel spaces and foster places meaning that whilst those things are being carried out other less fortunate dogs may lose their chance of getting out of the pound.

 

Everyone who gets involved with rescue has to make hard choices, and all that should be expected of them is that they do the best that they can with what resources they have and that the dogs in their care are well looked after.

 

I personally feel we need to be realistic - not every one is going to go the rescue route, some from a lack of knowledge, some from bigotry or snobbery, some purely because they want a particular breed of dog, some because they want a dog for a specific purpose, and some because they had their heartstrings tugged and could not pass by...

 

There will always be people who will opt to buy a dog from a breeder and I believe that we should be working WITH those people to encourage them to do their homework, to choose a breeder who health tests their dogs, who is careful about genetics, who only breeds a small number of litters, who provides back up and support etc.

 

Most importantly I think we need to be educating people about the horrific realities of puppy farms and BYB's and working to get those closed down and/or fully regulated (which I believe would mean the same thing).

 

I don't want to see breeds become extinct, nor do I want to see the only dogs available to be crossbreeds, I want to be able myself to make a decision on what breed of dog best fits in with my household and my lifestyle, most of the time those dogs will be available to me via the rescue route, but I'd like to think that one day they won't be, that one day the only way for me to own a greyhound would be from a reutable breeder.

 

I live in hope.

 

Thank you for your post above Snow. Pretty much sums up how I feel.

 

i arrived and was taken into the kennel block, past rows of dogs to the kennel where 'my' two were waiting. When I asked what was happening to the rest of them [30 odd dogs] the ENTIRE block was being destroyed that afternoon.

 

[LurcherGirl]

After three rescue dogs, I went to a breeder to buy a puppy of my chosen breed.

 

Why?

 

I had been thinking about getting a small dog for a while, when I met an American Cocker Spaniel puppy and fell head over heels in love with her and the breed! In fact, within weeks of that meeting, I was talking to ACS rescue organisations finding out whether they would have any suitable dogs in... They didn't, and they said that they are very unlikely to as this is what I wanted:

 

1. A puppy or very young dog as I wanted to do doggie activities with him, mainly competitive obedience and possibly agility

2. Undocked (that's a whole different story... but of course at the time there was no docking ban, so 99% of ACS in rescue were (and still are) docked)

 

 

I was prepared to wait for however long it took... But it then so happened that said ACS owner couldn't cope with their puppy anymore and we agreed to adopt her from them! But after three days they changed their mind and it broke our heart when we had to give her back! (And it broke the heart of one of our dogs too).

 

This was situation that made me decide after serious thought and consideration that I would find a responsible breeder to get the ACS I so desperately wanted. This was of course little Jesse. And I would do it again! Even since that time, 2 years down the line, I have still not come across an ACS in rescue that would have been suitable for us re fitting in with our family and being suitable to do the training/activities I do with Jesse; and I now know people from ACS rescue and many general breed rescues very well and hear probably about most ACS in rescue! So I still feel that my decision was the right one.

 

In hindsight, it was definitely the right decision. As it turned out that Jesse has major health problems being hypothyroid due to autoimmune thyroiditis! This caused aggression issues which would have caused major problems in your average pet home and many a vet and behaviourist would have classed as "cocker rage" that may well have resulted in him being put down without ever diagnosing his problem correctly! As a friend said to me when Jesse was diagnosed "He is very lucky to be with you, otherwise he might not even be alive anymore by now!"

 

Now the argument that there are plenty of dogs in rescue to chose from if only I hadn't wanted that particular breed is valid, but another very important consideration for me was to get a dog that had a low pray drive and was easier to control on walks than my two saluki crosses. There is no way I would have physically been able to cope with a third sighthound or any other breed with a very independent mindset like terriers etc. I "needed" an easier breed... and the ACS with his gundog traits, but toned down, was the perfect choice for that.

 

As I said, I would do it all again, Jesse is wonderful, I am still in regular contact with his breeder, and I am not excluding the possibility of having another ACS (or certain other breeds) from a responsible breeder some time in the (distant) future. However, I would never dream of getting a puppy from a breeder of a breed that is common in rescue, e.g. our other breeds salukis or saluki crosses and pyreneans (not common, but available if patient)! My first choice would always be rescue and if I can find a suitable dog/puppy in rescue, then that will always be my first choice! But I have come to accept (though still with a hint of guilt!!!) that I may not always be able to find a particular dog in rescue!

 

I do feel also that responsible breeders are not the ones that contribute to the rescue dog problem! It's puppy farms, it's BYBs and it's the fact that puppies can be sold in pet shops and through free adds! Take all that away, demand would FAR outweigh supply and there would not be any more rescue dogs other than the very genuine rehomings due to major change in circumstances, death etc.

 

So if someone is looking for a dog, I always recommend to look in rescue, I always recommend to neuter etc, but I am certainly in no position to blame anyone that has got a dog from elsewhere.

 

Vera

[kats n greys]

I don't think I would ever buy from a breeder or pet shop, never been faced with a pup in a shop in this country, but have seen them in America and found it so distressing that I can understand somebody having their heart overrule their head.

 

We have two Irish rescues and a Spanish rescue and I'm aware that some people find that wrong when there are dogs dying in the UK.

[Jacobean]

I can't be sorry for a minute that we have Bracken. He has such a lovely nature and has welcomed all the dogs we have brought in here and has never given up on any of them. He looks after them all. One thing I am truly grateful for is it was the lady we got him from (who is now a very good friend) that told us about Fergus being in a desperate situation, needing out very quickly and into safe hands that would work with him. No-one else could or would take him on and I firmly believe that if we hadn't he would have been pts. He was very aggressive when he first came here to us all because events had traumatised him. He is now the wonderful dog my friend knew he had been previously and she loves him to bits too. He was from a private home but we gave a donation to rescue.

 

I have had 1 dog from a pound and 3 from rescue. All 4 were a pain when they first arrived and all came with issues. Funnily enough the dog from the pound was actually the easiest but very noisy. Issie the Spinone was actually the worst. After a couple of weeks myself and Martyn said to each other what have we done. But we worked with her and then fell hook line and sinker. We have a space free here but thanks to a very dog aggressive Scooby we're stuffed at the moment.

[BillyMalc]

i couldnt buy a dog from a breeder. It just goes against everything i believe in. Maybe I am lucky that my preferences lie with greyhounds, rotties, dobermans, mastiffs, bull breeds, all of which are easy to find in rescue. Im also in a position of not having kids so no worries on dodgy temprements, and no visiting kids (as my family and friends know i hate them)

 

Im never likely to go into a pet shop as i have access to a pet shop wholesaler and buy everything trade price, and wouldnt go near any of the puppy superstores if i was being paid.

 

I guess the closest i would come would be like mel, to pay for a dog from a private sale to save it from a life of breeding, and pop it straight to rescue to find a good home. Even that would gall me if im honest

 

 

I don't think I would ever buy from a breeder or pet shop, never been faced with a pup in a shop in this country, but have seen them in America and found it so distressing that I can understand somebody having their heart overrule their head.

 

We have two Irish rescues and a Spanish rescue and I'm aware that some people find that wrong when there are dogs dying in the UK.

 

 

I agree 100% with the above posts. I too could never buy a dog from a breeder. Paying to save an already existing dog from a life of (more) suffering, or to prevent her being bred from, I could not swear hand on heart that I would never do that, but I think that that is a whole different kettle of fish from buying a pup that has been bred to be sold. A "good" breeder would keep any "left over" puppies - and supposedly treat them well - and as much as the idea of puppies suffering at puppy farms galls me, I just could not pay for one, just to give the farmer an incentive to produce another litter.

 

So far I've been lucky in that respect that all my dogs have pretty much come to me: Malcolm, bless his soul, managed to wind me round his paw within 24 hours of me ariving at the shelter where he lived. Two and a half years later he still had not been rehomed. Malcolm was from Greece.

 

On the subject of "dogs dying in this country", I believe that a dog in need is a dog in need, regardless of where the dog has been born or is being kept. During my 6 months in Greece we had between 130 and 160 dogs in the shelter. In all that time only 4 dogs were being rehomed to Greeks. We had a few rules: no dogs would leave our premises unneutered, dogs were not to be used as guard dogs (and chained up outside, permanently ) or used for hunting (and discarded once the season would be over ). These very simple rules put most people off, who thought that they could get a "guard" or hunting dog for free. 99% of the Greek dogs were rehomed abroad, else they would never be able to leave the shelter, and obviously there would not have been any space for new arrivals ...

 

Kiera was a private rehoming. One day I got approached by one of the people, who drank in the park next to where I used to work. She asked if I "wanted a dog" - their dog. Kiera is a very lovely looking girl, and she'd come up to 1 year old, by which time I was already her 4th home. It is entirely to Kiera's credit that she wasn't majorly screwed up by then She was not vacc'ed and not spayed, and I am 100% convinced that, if I wouldn't have taken her on, she'd be sold to whoever wanted to give the couple £20 for a few special brews and that she would be bred from from her first if not second season. So I took her on, thinking that I could always rehome her responsibly if things didn't work out - and she was spayed and vacc'ed within a week of me getting her. I've never paid any money for her, but the lady "borrowed" money off me on several occasions, which I never saw back. I used that as a safeguard tho; if they'd ever change their mind and want Kiera back, I'd demand my money back first, and off course if they would have showed up with the cash (which I knew they wouldn't), Kiera would have mysteriously disappeared

 

Sparks came from a friend of mine - I'm sure you all know the story by now. I didn't think I could handle 3 dogs, but Sparky, Mal and Kiera knew eachother already, had lived happily together in the same house, and both my friend and Sparky were unhappy with the situation they were in. There was no one else available so that settled that pretty much. I said I'd try it for a few weeks, but if things wouldn't work out, she'd take him back. 7 Months later and he's still here, so I think it's safe to say that Sparks is now a permanent resident

 

At the moment I don't think I could, or would want to, have another dog, as Sparky and Kiera are like Bonnie and Clyde together: they are extremely fussy of who they'd accept into the house. I totally believe that another dog will cross my path tho, when there is space in my life for another one.

 

Should I want to add another dog to our 'family' tho, my way of going about this would be: make a list of what I look for in a dog and what I can offer them. I'd either quite simply put up my "wish list" on the "homes needed" section and/or call/e-mail rescues with it. There is no doubt in my mind that a rescue will come up with a dog that would be happy to share their life with us. And whether that dog would be a mini schnauzer or a mastiff, I honestly wouldn't care: regardless of (cross-) breed, if we hit it off then they can come home with me, if not, then it doesn't matter whether the dog would look like the kind of dog I dream of, we are obviously not meant for each other.

 

As for the 'doggie activities': me n Kiera love doing agility. My only regret is that I've not thought of this as soon as I got her, because it's done absolute wonders for us in terms of bonding. Of course, if I wanted to have another dog to do agility with, I could ask my trainers what breeder they got their border collies from, but why would I do that if there's a rescue like Wiccaweys having collies in all shapes and sizes, and definitely have one who's just waiting to come and do agility with me!

[zico's mum]

How great to see such an emotive topic being discussed so calmly.Snow some excellent points raised there.Certainly with Border Terriers at present there are a number coming into rescue with dreadful temperaments,either as a result of indiscriminate breeding or pups being sold to buyers who have absolutely no idea what the needs of this breed are.Like many on here I'm sure,I've been approached by people who find my two attractive,lovely little dogs and will ask where they came from.When they don't even recognise what breed they are I'm very wary of recommending general rescues as potential homes knowing what issues some of these dogs are coming in with.Rescues experienced with Terriers,especially working and breed rescue yes but I'd far rather a novice owner went to a breeder who has carefully vetted potential homes and won't rehome a pup to just anyone - and I try to guide them into doing research into the breed carefully first in the hopes that this will keep a dog out of rescue - in my opinion just as important.There are an estimated 7 million plus dogs in the UK at present,the vast majority will be from breeders,the vast majority living normal happy lives - and this isn't to say that there isn't a problem,patently there is but I do feel that some statements made by rescue supporters belittle the situation as they are patently untrue.I'll certainly be going to rescue in future and will sing their praises as well for some potential owners,as said elsewhere not everyone wants or is suitable for a rescue (I was turned down by all my local ones except the one I know now is not the place to be rehoming a dog from,thank heavens they had no suitable dogs in at the time) but there is imo also a place for good caring,careful breeders to provide excellent companions and ensure that the breed I love so much doesn't become notorious for ill-mannered,temperamental and agressive dogs because they are being churned out by puppy farms and BYBs and bought for all the wrong reasons.

[jacqui d]

What i wish for dogs are good homes, with families who care for them correctly, and although i would prefer to see every dog in rescue in one of those good homes before more were bred, im not nieve enough to think that will ever happen.

 

I have a bought dog, he was right for us (still is) as is our rescue dog, he was the first bought dog, and will be the last, as sadly theres more than enough of his breed in rescue now whereas there wasnt 7 years ago when we searched high and low before "purchasing".

[ReikiAnge]

I do feel also that responsible breeders are not the ones that contribute to the rescue dog problem! It's puppy farms, it's BYBs and it's the fact that puppies can be sold in pet shops and through free adds! Take all that away, demand would FAR outweigh supply and there would not be any more rescue dogs other than the very genuine rehomings due to major change in circumstances, death etc.

 

I agree.

 

I am totally pro-rescue. All my dogs are rescue - well Max was a private rehoming from a family breakup, but I think of him as a "rescue" that avoided the going into rescue bit!

 

I don't know that I could ever buy a puppy. We had breeder-bought pups as I was growing up, but I was certain I wanted to take the rescue route myself and feel very sure I will continue to adopt from rescue.

 

We all have to make our own choices. I've made my feelings on buying from pet shops/puppy farmers clear in the past so I will try not to go over all that again, but I do wish that people would choose to go to a good breeder if they decide to take the breeder route. Until puppy farming is banned, the only way to stop it is for people to not buy puppies from them.

 

Maybe I'd feel differently about buying a pup from a good breeder if I wanted a dog for something more specific, such as working them/training them, or if "my" breed(s) very rarely came up in rescue, but I just want to share my life with my dogs and have fun with them and my favoured breeds aren't rare.

 

I would love to see more people adopt rescue dogs and I try to promote rescue whenever I can - but I know that not everyone would consider a rescue dog, sadly, so would far rather see them "do their homework" and find a suitable breed and good breeder, than rush out and find a puppy from a less than desirable source.

 

I do firmly believe there's a rescue dog out there for everyone though. Only this morning I was walking with a retired chap who had never had a dog before his current one and when they did decide to look for a dog, wanted a big dog, a "proper" dog - they adopted a little terrier who he is besotted with

 

Nowt to do with buying from a breeder, but I decided to adopt a Lab puppy this time around, knowing how many adult dogs there are in rescue. I am so glad I did, I found my perfect dog. She didn't take a place from an older/wonky/problem dog - my other dogs are now "older" (10-11) and I have one that is grumpy with other dogs and one who can be very nervous, and I wouldn't have taken on another oldie/dog with issues, so I'd just not have got another dog at all.

 

I'm sure I'll adopt an older/oldie dog again too, I see so many on the OC site that I would be very happy to bring home if I were looking for an oldie

[Happylittlegreensquirrel]

Its no sacrifice to give up something you don't want and as I don't want and will never want a pedigree puppy I will never buy a dog from a breeder

[Jacobean]

The reason we got Bracken in the first place wasn't for us. It was for our old Yorkie who was pining badly after we lost 2 oldies. She also happened to be blind with a completely collapsed trachea so we couldn't risk taking in a dog from kennels just in case of KC as we had already been warned it could kill her if she caught it. Meant to say that earlier.

 

The lady we got him from actually has his brother and sister. She was always going to keep the girl and the brother was returned to her. Once returned they don't go anywhere. If only all breeders were like her. There are many who are of course. It's the crap ones that cause all the mess.

[Tobleronie]

As I've said before I have one Lab from a breeder and one Lab from rescue. My lab from a breeder was before I knew about rescue and also before I knew about responsible breeders

 

We bought Beenzie from the papers, that was 9 years ago before I was aware of the rescue world, because of Beenzie I got involved in Lab Rescue, and on from that learnt even more about the whole of Dog Rescue.

 

It certainly made me realise immediately how wrong I had been to phone someone up from an ad, visit the next day and take home a sickly 4 month old Lab paying £250 in cash with no papers or anything

 

But ...... although I spend most of my waking hours finding homes for Labs that are given up in rescue, I do appreciate that a rescue dog is not allways right for a home that is actually a home that is right for a dog, there are many homes that come to me that have been home checked and would be wonderful homes for a Lab, but its so often its unlikely that they could cope with a rescue dog that comes with baggage, are we wrong to deny those lovely homes the chance of giving a dog a great home, their only option is a puppy that they can train to fit in with their lifestyle, in those cases the only route is a breeder, and I hope that in the past and in the future I can direct them towards breeders that ARE responsible.

 

I also will think about a puppy should the time come god forbid that I am ready for another dog, because of the way my life is whereby my dogs have to be able to come to work with me and be confident with customers coming in and out of my showroom (Toby, rescue, bless him has never quite got it right, there are customers he tries to eat ), but I am lucky in my contacts that any puppy I did have would be from a bona fida breeder that I would trust.

[ranirottie]

I am not against breeders who do it properly and I would buy from a breeder if I wanted a particular breed pedigree puppy (which I never will,I dont do pups) but I am definately pro rescue. So I think its down to personal choice. It would be wonderful if everybody wanted a rescue but then breeders would be wiped out and there would be no pure breed dogs left in the world. Now while loads of people like mixed breeds the other lot like pure breeds and they are not always available in rescue. Also, if pure breeds were wiped out and all rescues were neutered the whole dog world would eventually be wiped out! I think that its down to individual choice so live and let live. x

[Red Rotties]

I found myself in the position recently of doing a bit of care or doggy sitting for a friend who breeds bulldogs who had had a litter. Five beautiful squidgy puppies, and how I lost my heart to them. My friend is a good breeder, health checks every one of her dogs before breeding them and then usually only one litter per girl, only breeds if she has homes waiting and takes back any that falls on hard times. The love and care I witnessed shown to that litter, she slept on the couch next to them for 5 weeks. Her dogs are larger than "normal" and usually only wins her classes at shows if its a foreign judge, as they tend to look more at size and movement. I was torn, I really really wanted one of those pups. However my home these days is getting too old for a puppy, although having Basil such a short time the thought that we would have a bulldog a long time this time did keep coming up and was very tempting. I think someone up there was listening to my inner turmoil at this time because my friend lost one of her bitches and the sister of that dog was very depressed, her other dogs picked up one this and started to pick on the lone girl who had always been stuck by her sisters side and had been protected her. One day there was a vicious attack which ended up on the girl being took to the vets with her wounds. It looked like when she came home she would have to spend most of her time living in a kennel on her own for her own protection. It took me a week to realise that this girl was MY dog and after pleading with both my friend and Barry, Beattie biscuit came home. I have never looked back and my Beattie is proving to be a joy and side kick to Perry. But if the attack hadn't happened I may have ended up with a puppy, who knows one day I may well do and I will hold my head up high. I have done rescue, help where I can and have had to take dogs to be p.t.s I know what happens out there, but my dogs are here for life, so I will always have the throw away ones but probably a dog that was bred responsibly too.

 

I am realistic enough to realise that we will never stop breeding, but, would like to see stricter rules for this, and I dont mean the acredited breeder scheme, I would like to see where it becomes illegal to breed from dogs that havent been health tested or temperment tested with the test relevent to that breed, all pups tattooed or chipped to the breeder that bred them so that if a dog they bred ended up in the pound or rescue the breeder would be liable for cost until that dog has found a new home, oh I could go on and on but am sure you get the gist of it