No Smoking Laws

[greyhound pal]

If smoking is to be banned in work places, what about community workers?

What do they do if they have an obligation to visit the home of smokers?

They can't refuse to enter the premises.

 

When the smoking ban came in here, I managed a homeless hostel which included an outreach support service. Bearing in mind, these people have 'real issues'.

 

As 'Support Workers', I had to advise my staff that they needed their service users to be told that if they were getting a home visit (or room visit) the individual receiving support was not allowed to smoke within an hour of their expected arrival and not at all while they were there.

 

They were also to be advised to leave immediately if there was evidence of smoking or the person was lighting up. When you are dealing with people who are in real crisis or problematic alcohol use, can you imagine the response if you told them that?

 

I mean what do you say - "yes I understand that you are suicidal and you are bleeding from cuts all over your arms/legs/body/crying your heart out because you have no one and nothing left in your life etc, but if you don't put your fag out, I'm off!"

[Sue B]

ah now see the they don't work as hard as me attitude really really really pees me off. I'm a smoker... and i don't mind the new smoking rules at all, although my habits will have to change.

 

however if one of my non smoking colleagues would like to put in the amount of hours that i flaming well do to make up for the measly two or three breaks i get a day (and again today i've had no lunch cos i'm working and they have merrily skipped out for an hour) then they may have a case. Until that day when that comment is so much as uttered in this office I shall continue to flip out.

 

I have also pointed out (cos i can cos i'm their boss) they are perfectly entitled to go stick the kettle on, sod off for 10 minutes and have a break, and in fact from the amount of time they spend at their computers, they are legally obliged to do so. It usually doesn't change their looks of disgust and as yet no-one has taken me up on the offer.

Have to say I agree 100% with this. I am a smoker, I go out for a fag when I am at work around once an hour and spend approx two minutes smoking it, thats a maximum of 16 minutes a day, however, I get in at least twenty minutes early, usually leave twenty minutes after the time I am supposed to and rarely take a full lunch hour. I think if you added up all the time most office workers spent making tea. gossiping etc it wouldn't be much less than smoker's breaks.

 

I do try to be a considerate smoker, e.g. I don't smoke in non smoker's houses or cars, try to keep smoke away from people outside and have been going out of restuarants for a while now to have a fag, even though its still OK (just) to smoke in them. I also have a portable ashtray so I don't drop butts on the pavement.

 

I know its a filthy habit but I do enjoy it.

[Brierley]

When I go on holiday by plane, I feel really ill when the perfumes come round and are tested and the smell lingers on my clothes - perfume should be banned in public places

 

Being over 50, I take offence when all I can hear when I do have the occasional night out is 'f'ing and blinding - swearing should be banned in public places

 

I get worried by people who drink too much and start getting ansty - drinking should be banned in public places

 

I could go on!

 

We used to have a static caravan and the site club usually had bingo and the occasional 'turn'.

 

When there was a cabaret booked, the club used to get full so the tap room (grand name for a small room with a pool table that no one ever seemed to play on) used to take the overflow from the concert room. One guy used to always make a beeline for this little room. He'd come in, throw all the windows open, complain all night about the smoke and eventually he complained to the site owner who told the landlord to make that room non-smoking. The ban lasted three weeks. The room was always empty and the guy who did all the complaining started going in the other room where smoking was allowed. The landlord ripped down the sign and the guy never once complained after that.

 

Since then, the club has had a complete make-over and a new lounge bar (very posh) is non-smoking. No one ever goes in there, but the ban has remained simply because of the new regulations coming in. The landlord fears the club will close when the ban starts because there is very limited room outside and what there is is surrounded by caravans so you can imagine the complaints regarding noise if folk are forever tripping outside to smoke.

 

I don't smoke in restaurants by choice, but I do find it quite funny when I see people sitting in clearly marked smoking areas complaining that people are smoking. I do think that some people go out of their way to complain on this issue.

 

Personally, the ban won't affect me as I rarely go out and when I do, I prefer to sit outside, but I do think that the problems this total ban will bring will far outweigh any advantages. Surely, the commonsense approach would have been to let pubs/clubs etc have designated smoking rooms if they wanted to have them. Town and city centres are already 'no-go' areas for many on a Friday and Saturday night, I imagine throwing more people out onto the streets is going to make this problem much worse,

 

Ah well, time will tell!

[Fee]

Waiting for my train this evening there was a young guy on the platform, either very drunk or completely out of his head on something or other. He was hassling people for money and shouting abuse at anyone who refused.

 

None of the station staff took a blind bit of notice until he lit a cigarette, then there were five security people there in seconds telling him the station was now a no smoking area, and eventually escorting him outside

[Ian]

Whenever I see something like this I wonder whether the world is going stark staring mad. Edited July 6, 2007 by Ian

[lsly]

Waiting for my train this evening there was a young guy on the platform, either very drunk or completely out of his head on something or other. He was hassling people for money and shouting abuse at anyone who refused.

 

None of the station staff took a blind bit of notice until he lit a cigarette, then there were five security people there in seconds telling him the station was now a no smoking area, and eventually escorting him outside

 

Oh wow, what a sad state society is in, wonder how long until it wears off

[katie deans]

"My names Katie and Im a smoker "

 

Ive been pondering the ban on smoking in public places and notice that a few fugees have commented on smoking in cars and if it is likely to be banned or not. The funny thing is that your car is actually classed as a public place in the eyes of the law so if that really is the case how come smoking in cars hasnt yet been outlawed too

(I only know this useless bit of info cos when my ex was arrested in posession of a knife he was told he would be charged with posession of a bladed weapon in a public place and that his car was the public place )

 

I understand why they have introduced the ban but I really think they should have maybe thought things through a bit more and perhaps made provision for some of the more exceptional circumstances...Kendra had an appt at Alder Hey Childrens hospital today and even though the whole site (including car parks) is now non smoking there were plenty of people openly flouting the law. Yes they were technically in the wrong but theres a good chance that there will be some very poorly kids with very stressed parents in the hospital and I really dont think you can expect a parent to spend half an hour walking across the site to the street and back (and yes it really is a huge place) to have a cig when they would probably only want to nip out for 5 mins tops. I know some people will say that if they really care about their kids they wouldnt be nipping out at all but even non smoking parents probably feel like escaping for a few mins just to clear their heads.

 

On a bad note though the local press have been reporting that staff at Alder Hey have been abused and assaulted by people fagging it in the grounds and I dont condone that as at the end of the day the staff are only doing their jobs

[Ingrid]

My work place has been a non smoking area for at 10 years, but as I only spend a max of 3 hours in there it has never worried me, in fact I stopped smoking inside years ago.

A couple of years ago I moved to a larger office and it amazed me how many people there pop out every half hour and leave the door open so the smoke blows back in the building !!

The smoking ban has led the manager to say that we have to move right off the premises and away from doors, so they are spending more time outside.

Now this never used to annoy me because we have always had a job and finish policy, so the quicker you did the job, the earlier you went home without losing pay, due to people moaning we now all have to stay in the office until all the sorting is finished, well that I do object to when people have been taking many fag breaks and others frequent coffe breaks !!!

I've got a week off now and have decided to try and pack in smoking, so wish me luck, I'm gonna need it

[KathyM]

What Katie Deans said about parents with children in hospitals is a good point. Our local hospital's banned smoking in the grounds (which are large) for some time now - somewhere between the last time my son was taken into hospital and the time before. When my son was in last, it made a 5 minute fag break a 25 minute one, and this isn't anywhere near as large as some hospitals. There's a large tunnel walkway up to the road off the grounds - very long, a fair trek to get off the site. When I was there, it looked like most people (staff included) just hid in there for a fag. Given how worried I was about leaving Dan for too long, I joined them in that. BUT, I'm not going to die from not having a fag, so realistically, I should've just not had one. Easier said than done when you're worried though.

 

One thing I noticed on the day of the ban coming into force is that half the fag extinguishy little bin things disappeared from our town. We used to have two outside the market - they both disappeared the day of the ban. What's all that about then?!

[Fee]

The office where I work has always been a non-smoking building. As far as I'm aware nobody has EVER smoked inside the building.

 

Until the ban, there was one small, discreet, 'no smoking' sign on each entrance. Suddenly the building is plastered with no smoking signs everywhere - I counted 6 between the front door and my office. The logic of this completely escapes me

[ReikiAnge]

I empathise with people who are visiting family/friends in hospital and need to make a trek to have a fag break and understand it must be an extremely worrying time

 

However I was reading from a hospital's point of view the other day, that they are having to ask people to ask people to stop smoking outside of the hospital - as in outside of the building, after the ban came into effect - and getting lots of grief for it Their concern was that these people were smoking underneath children's wards, wards where people with cancer are etc. and that it was going to blow up and into these wards, which obviously isn't a benefit for healthy people, let alone those ill and in hospital

 

That is daft Fee - that they let him behave on the station platform like that and then only did something when he lit up - suggests they were perhaps more concerned about the station being fined than anything else eh. A guy was arrested and held over night last week after lighting a fag up in his pub and then refusing to put it out/leave. He was arrested because he was also very p*ssed and became aggressive to staff etc.

 

I'm still very much in favour of the ban, due in the main to my having an allergy to smoke. I just wish it had come into effect about 20 years ago when I first started going out

[Red Rotties]

So you live in a town where alcohol is banned in the street and you cant smoke in the pub?????????????

 

Yes I am Lesley and I am a smoker

 

I just wonder how far the Nanny state is going to go. This ban is not going to affect me much, I dont go out much and agree that some smokers in restaurants can be a pain, but I dont remember being asked about this, dont remember voting on it either and the last time I looked with lived in a democrasy. We live in a country where laws are being introduced against growm people who actually can think for themselves whilst the plight of the innocent, ie children and animals is ignored again and again. But that I guess is another topic x

[KathyM]

I empathise with people who are visiting family/friends in hospital and need to make a trek to have a fag break and understand it must be an extremely worrying time

 

However I was reading from a hospital's point of view the other day, that they are having to ask people to ask people to stop smoking outside of the hospital - as in outside of the building, after the ban came into effect - and getting lots of grief for it Their concern was that these people were smoking underneath children's wards, wards where people with cancer are etc. and that it was going to blow up and into these wards, which obviously isn't a benefit for healthy people, let alone those ill and in hospital

 

 

You see, I would understand if that was an issue in the hospitals I've been to - but it's not. Nobody seemed to smoke near the wards at the (few) hospitals we've been to. In one they used to have a smoking room (I understand why they can't have them now) which was well away from the wards. Our local hospital's grounds are large, and those who smoked in the grounds tended to stick to the garden type areas which are away from the wards and in open air - not near doorways or what-have-you. I completely understand why they wouldn't want people congregating below wards and smoking, or even near doorways that don't lead to wards, as the smoke would go into the buildings. What I can't understand is why they would make people walk 10-15 minutes past the carpark, the gardens and up the tunnel to the main road, all of which are away from the buildings. I suppose the reasoning is that it would be hard for them to define a space where it was allowed.

 

One of the other problems I see with out local hospital is that the train line runs along the other side of the bottom boundary (so other side of hospital grounds to main road). The psychiatric wards are at the bottom of the hospital, and they already have a problem with patients getting onto the lines because the wards are so close and they've had major issues with supervision and suicides. Now think of a mental patient who wants a fag - are they going to see the danger of going to the bottom boundary, which is nearest, to have a fag? Or are they going to have the reasoning to go through the whole hospital (or walk around the whole hospital on the road), go across the carpark, go up the tunnel and get to the main road for a fag?

[ReikiAnge]

I suppose the reasoning is that it would be hard for them to define a space where it was allowed.

 

That's what I thought too. I don't know why they didn't consider to even have some kind of fenced off area well away from the buildings, making it clear you could only smoke within that fenced bit. I know that must sound awful for smokers, to have to be fenced in in some way, but presumably it would be more acceptable than the current situation and it should be as easy to enforce - if you're inside the fence you're ok, if you're outside of the fence, put the fag out.

 

One of the other problems I see with out local hospital is that the train line runs along the other side of the bottom boundary (so other side of hospital grounds to main road). The psychiatric wards are at the bottom of the hospital, and they already have a problem with patients getting onto the lines because the wards are so close and they've had major issues with supervision and suicides. Now think of a mental patient who wants a fag - are they going to see the danger of going to the bottom boundary, which is nearest, to have a fag? Or are they going to have the reasoning to go through the whole hospital (or walk around the whole hospital on the road), go across the carpark, go up the tunnel and get to the main road for a fag?

 

But surely a mental patient who doesn't have the "capacity" to realise it's dangerous to go near the rail line would be in danger whether or not they were needing a fag - and if they were in danger of getting onto the line without realising the consequence, surely they wouldn't be allowed to wander around outside Or am I being very naive?

[ReikiAnge]

I just wonder how far the Nanny state is going to go. This ban is not going to affect me much, I dont go out much and agree that some smokers in restaurants can be a pain, but I dont remember being asked about this, dont remember voting on it either and the last time I looked with lived in a democrasy. We live in a country where laws are being introduced against growm people who actually can think for themselves whilst the plight of the innocent, ie children and animals is ignored again and again. But that I guess is another topic x

 

To be fair, I don't remember ever being asked whether I was happy to inhale other people's smoke every time I wanted to meet up with friends for a drink, a meal, see my husband play in his band etc. Whether I'd be happy to have a hangover for a day or so after being around smokers, when I hadn't had any alcohol.

 

It's not as though smoking has been banned entirely - people can still smoke in their own homes, in lots of open spaces etc. If there was something I *chose* to do that could severely affect the health of those around me, even aside from the affect on my own health, would it be fair for me to expect to do it wherever and whenever I liked? I don't think so.

 

I think the law is intended to protect innocent people - those who don't wish to become ill from passive smoking and help those who would like to give up - I've read a number of smokers saying the ban will help them to give up as they won't be around other smokers so much. I agree that we should absolutely be protecting the plight of animals and children - but I am very much in favour of the new smoking laws.