Pingu Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 sadly the media scum surrounding this will carry on for 2-3 more days.. then will rekindle because of the aniversary of the ellie lawrenson incident. the media love to sensationalise and becasuse of this any chance of rational debate and investigation goes out of the window. All the press are interested in is viewing figures\paper sales and they wont be concerned about little things like facts and the truth. They dont care about the thousands of well behaved and trained dogs out there ... just the one that will make them more money. sadly if a proper investigation and debate could be had the chance of things like this occuring in the future would be reduced as we would be able to get to the actual causes. but that wouldnt sell airtime or papers would it? So they will stick to the sensationalisation and half researched stories and begger the consequences for dog owners, dogs and anyone else who suffers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mop Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 The police shot a man today but there is very little about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGAR Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 I have had phone calls from the News of the World and the Sunday Mirror. Echoed in the interviews what has been already said 100.000 times... Regardless of this being an emotive topic IT COULD HAVE BEEN prevented by such as simple thing as COMMON SENSE. As to calling this accident MURDER - I am speechless. Anthropomorphism at its finest . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DitzyLips Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 I have had phone calls from the News of the World and the Sunday Mirror. Echoed in the interviews what has been already said 100.000 times... Regardless of this being an emotive topic IT COULD HAVE BEEN prevented by such as simple thing as COMMON SENSE. As to calling this accident MURDER - I am speechless. Anthropomorphism at its finest . You should get them to run the article that you posted earlier about you and egar.They obviously have space to fill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EGAR Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Oh, good idea, I will email them the link to it! Nice one ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rykat Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 As some of you already know, Pingu and I own 5 rottweilers, all rescues from very different backgrounds and I would have no hesitation of leaving any ADULT in their company. However I would never leave a child unattended with them because as an adult in this world I am responsible for the welfare and behaviour of any child and dogs that are in my home, I cannot do that if either I or an adult is not present. I have 2 nieces (8yrs & 6 yrs) and 2 nephews (4yrs & 6months) and they mix with dogs, but my brother always ensures that either he or their mum present. If any children come to visit then we do the same and this may be misinterpreted that I don't trust my dogs enough but how can I be a responsible dog owner if I leave them alone unattended? A dogs mind doesn't work the same as a human, they live in the "now" and do not possess the ability to think "oh today I will maul a child". They quote "without warning" but as most rottie owners will agree, rottweilers give very clear signals .... if they are acknowledged. If the dog was not socialised, lived in the yard and basically was a guard dog then it's signals would not be acknowledged as that of a family pet that lives indoors with the family. Already a friend of mine is so scared to take her 2 rottweilers out and plans to muzzle them to prevent any possible complaints, the dogs don't need muzzling, they are in control of the dogs but she's scared. What do I say to her? That it will all be alright? I'm scared of where this all may go. The right message needs to get out there. When will the muppets in this world ever learn? At times I'm ashamed to be classed as a human being. It's not rocket science, it's flaming common sense, simple. For the baby - RIP Archie-Lee For the dog - Run free at the bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandmy4? Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 (edited) Must say though if another living being takes another living being life without consent then what is it called? What does everyone generally think should be done? Edited December 29, 2007 by meandmy4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui d Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Julia, with the greatest of repsect, this thread is not one to debate "murder", as has already been explained, a dog is not capable of such an act. Please keep the thread on topic and start another if you feel a seperate "debate" or discussion needs to take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 (edited) Must say though if another living being takes another living being life without consent then what is it called? What does everything generally think should be done? A dog is a dog, it's not a human.. This is why accidents like this happen because people insist on thinking that dogs have the same thought patterns as humans, they don't... If people keep crediting their dogs with thinking and feeling like humans things like this will keep happening... Murder is the unlawful killing of a human person with malice aforethought. Murder is generally distinguished from other forms of homicide by the elements of malice aforethought and the lack of lawful justification. All jurisdictions, ancient and modern, consider it a most serious crime. Most jurisdictions impose a severe penalty for its commission. at common law murder is defined as the unlawful killing of a human person with malice aforethought. Malice aforethought exists if the defendant acts with any of the following states of mind: (i) Intent to kill; (ii) Intent to inflict serious bodily harm; (iii) Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (abandoned and malignant heart); or (iv) Intent to commit a felony (felony-murder doctrine). Under element (i) intent to kill, the deadly weapon rule applies. Thus, if the defendant intentionally uses a deadly weapon or instrument against the victim, such use authorizes a permissive inference of intent to kill. An example of a deadly weapon or instrument is a gun, a knife, or even a car when intentionally used to strike the victim. Under element (iii) abandoned and malignant heart, the killing must result from defendant's conduct involving a reckless indifference to human life and a conscious disregard of an unreasonable risk of death or serious bodily injury. Under element (iv) felony-murder doctrine, the felony committed must be an inherently dangerous felony, such as burglary, arson, rape, robbery or kidnapping. Importantly, the underlying felony cannot be a lesser-included offense such as assault, otherwise all homicides would be murder as all homicides are felonies. Dogs don't act like humans nor to they abide by human law. Sorry off topic, this can be split or deleted as I've taken things way off topic.... Edited December 29, 2007 by Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Must say though if another living being takes another living being life without consent then what is it called? In this case....tragic What does everyone generally think should be done? This person thinks it's best not to pass judgement on any one or thing, at least until the facts are known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylittlegreensquirrel Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Must say though if another living being takes another living being life without consent then what is it called? What does everyone generally think should be done? depends on the species if its a lion hunting a zebra then its nature if its a human taking another humans life then it maybe many things including murder, manslaughter, self defence or an accident neither of my 2 examples above bear any relevance to the discussions of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meandmy4? Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Well I believe the owners or someone should be held accountable. There are owners of Rotties and other breeds on here that know there dogs yet still take every reasonable sensible precaution even though there dogs have shown no aggression but are responsible dog owners. I can only see it from my point of view and a child is dead someone is responsible. And if someone is not responsible then its going to tar the whole breed. They need to make an example of some dog owners so people are MADE to be responsible for there animals and then less desirable dog owners wont want to own such powerful breeds they have no knowledge of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Bones Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 There is nothing to say that these were not responsible owners nor that they didn't have any knowledge of the breed.... We do not know if the dog was sick, for example with a brain tumour that caused unpredictable behaviour etc. Please stick to facts as they are known at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Must say though if another living being takes another living being life without consent then what is it called? What does everyone generally think should be done? meandmy4? please read posts above: dogs do not have the ability to consider whether or not another being gives consent to what's being done to them. The dog has not killed that boy knowing what she was doing would be fatal and the grief this would cause. As for "what should be done", please check the Breed Specific Legislation forum on this board, where what should be, is being and has been done, is being discussed. This tragedy has happened almost a year to the day that Ellie Lawrenson was killed, and as a result of the ensuing witch hunt on any dog remotely resembling a pit, DeedNOTBreed was founded. Please check out the website on ideas how you can help preventing another tragedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 From what I've seen of this it was nothing more then a tragic accident. The dog was separated from the children, just unfortunately the 7yo opened the back door to take the baby to stroke the dog. The dog was stated not to be agggressive and I doubt we will ever know why it attacked, sadly it has paid with it's life but as Melp has already said what future would it have otherwise. Unfortunately at the moment there seem to be a spate of attacks by rogue rotties, I've yet to meet one that is anything but friendly, did any one see hat another baby has been mauled to death in Australia too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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