greyhound pal Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 A lack of respect? A lack of disipline? I think both. They have no respect for property nd there is a complete lack of discipline within schools and society. A few months ago my daughter put me through hell after I grounded her for drinking, smoking hash and going missing for hours on end. She went to school next day and told her ever understanding guidance teacher she didn't want to live at home any more. In my day (and I'm only 34) you would've been told tough and to get on with it. Not these days. Social work involved and my daughter says she was near bullied by her guidance teacher who was trying to get her to admit she was being abused at home Apparently her guidance teacher is obsessed with kids being abused and because my daghetr talks to her she has over the last year or so constantly been asked if she's abused. I want to believe that this woman is just an idiot and not that she really believes it or that she doesn't just dislike me cos I'm a single parent that has a bit of a gob on me (and compains to higher aauthority when my daughters being assaulted by a bully at school. To say I'm not over this is an understatement. I'm still livid. Anyway I digress. I would say it's the parents not teaching them respect in themselves and respecting others. Also kids need to realize that they are individuals and if they are not happy with the situation they should walk away. It's a braver person who walks away, than let others lead them. Yep but the pressure is worse these days. There is so much pressure on them and there are so many parents out there who really don't give a stuff about their kids - just as long as they're ut from under their feet. take away their mobiles, their cd players, mp3 players, TVs, DVDs, Gameboys, Playstations, Nintendos and anything else they have, give them a good slap round the chops and ground them for life Yep - but they know their rights. They have little concept of right and wrong (because its the kids who do wrong that get rewarded). They don't 'earn', they demand. Oh and even adverts on the radio encourage kids to phone if they experience physical 'violence' (not such a thing as a 'slap' anymore) at home. I grabbed my daughters arm to stop her hitting her sister and she threatened me after above incident happened... I think I've tried every punishment going and none work. Or she just nicks her phone etc back. Sounds like things are hell here but actually, they have improved after Social Work told her she was lucky to have a caring mother and reinforced what a good home she has. Then her boyfriend told her when she moaned to him that she was grounded again, that she 'should do what she's told then' (I like taht boy and I so hope she marrys him!) Sorry - a bit mixed and confused but that pretty much explains my feelings on the whole situ - feck knows how you do get it right but if anyone knows the answer, please do let me know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 My friends brother has a two yr old boy, one day whilst visiting, the 2 yr old refused to put his trousers on and the father did not make him, keeping everyone back from going out for lunch, the reason he didn't make him dress was that it would be against his human rights............I was absolutly speechless, and it's that sort of attitude that is the cause of much of todays trouble, for some reason parents seem to be afraid of their own children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtychicken Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 Yep but the pressure is worse these days. There is so much pressure on them and there are so many parents out there who really don't give a stuff about their kids - just as long as they're out from under their feet. This is the bit that strikes me more than anything. WHY do people have children if they don't like them/don't want them around/don't want to talk to them????? I think most people now know that my kids are home educated and so they are with me for a very large chunk of their time. However, I have no doubts about leaving them with other people because they have been brought up - right from day 1 - to respect other people and their belongings. They don't lie, they don't steal and they talk to me about *everything*. I just hope that this grounding has been enough to carry them through the rest of their lives. Swearing is dealt with a bit differently here, I should imagine, to how it is dealt with in most people's homes. My kids do have some "naughty" words that they are allowed to use and this was introduced purely because all children get the chance to "practise" swearing at school and with their friends and to instill some self-control over where they do and don't use those words, or which words they can get away with and which they can't. My kids know way more swear words than they are allowed to use and wouldn't repeat them and there are conditions attached to when they can and can't use "their" words. It appears to be working. They tend not to use them very often - unless they're particularly excited or angry - even though they are allowed to. I used to live next door to a "lady" and her husband who had 3 children. The number of times that I heard them shrieking at those kids... The children wanted for nothing - materialistically. The father earned a lot of money and the children had the best of everything. And yet, on the day that the children broke up from school for holidays the mum would loudly declare "I can't wait till you go back". How awful!!! The kids would be put in Breakfast Club every morning and in After School Club every afternoon. But Mum didn't work and wouldn't be out - she'd be at home!! When my kids were in school, I couldn't wait for them to come out and tell me what they'd been doing all day and holidays were my favourite times! Again, why did she keep having kids if she didn't like them? I digressed too Sorry Anyway, I believe a return to "family values" is what this country needs. Discipline needs to be meted out; boundaries need to be set and adhered to; respect needs to be taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9Fran Posted August 16, 2007 Report Share Posted August 16, 2007 I wonder if we're now seeing the repercussions of the generation whose parents both worked now becoming parents themselves, but without a proper role model of how parenting should be done........ Don't get me wrong - my Mum went to work, but only once we were at Snr School, and I work, but only where I can fit it around school and Dave's shifts. I know many parents who work full time, and they simply haven't got the energy to engage with their children, or to discipline them if they step out of line, they're glad to see their teenagers out of the house because they get some much needed peace and quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 I know many parents who work full time, and they simply haven't got the energy to engage with their children, or to discipline them if they step out of line, they're glad to see their teenagers out of the house because they get some much needed peace and quiet. I work full-time and have done since my son was 3 months old. I am now divorced too. I love spending time with my son (13) and always have time to discipline him when necessary. I miss him when he's out....which is more and more often as he gets older!! He does extremely well at school, has lots of friends, always shows respect to others and is (I think) a very well adjusted young man....even with teenage hormones. I get annoyed when people (especially )politicians make sweeping statements about working/lone parents.I think it's down to the attitude of the parent(s) rather than their circumstances Not having a go at you Fran, just using your post as an example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyM Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 These days you can hear toddlers swearing at adults - generally I'd say because they were brought up by young (usually) parents who know no better themselves. I think it's less about age and more about a parent's ability to relate to their children. If children are ignored and left to run riot, or one parent undermines the other for example, then that child is going to become a problem. I was a young mum - pregnant with my first at 17 and gave birth just after I turned 18. I was brought up well and don't believe my age made a blind bit of difference to how my kids have turned out. I also don't believe that punishment = discipline necessarily. I will admit to having smacked my kids' bums in the past (no need to now, they're much older), but there's a family that lived up the road who punish their kids and they still run riot - so much so they've been evicted I believe. Saying that, they'd smack them sometimes and other times they'd call people downright liars when they reported their kids' bad behaviour. One time I saw one of them literally swing a thick plastic sword at my niece's head repeatedly, so hard that she swooned. I went to their house and spoke to their mother, who told me I had got it wrong, it was definitely her nephew, and proceeded to bawl at her nephew. I told her I had witnessed it and she called me a liar in front of the son who had done it, who stood beside her smirking. He would quite happily tell any grown up to F off (and use the C word) if they asked him to get out of their garden and stop stealing their kids' footballs. He was 8. My kids had a smacked bum once in a blue moon and only when an action was *really* bad. It wasn't left, right and centre for every tiny thing, making them think it's "normal". Kids need boundaries, they also need these enforcing every time. If you're not consistent, they'll play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted August 17, 2007 Report Share Posted August 17, 2007 I think it's less about age and more about a parent's ability to relate to their children. If children are ignored and left to run riot, or one parent undermines the other for example, then that child is going to become a problem. I was a young mum - pregnant with my first at 17 and gave birth just after I turned 18. I was brought up well and don't believe my age made a blind bit of difference to how my kids have turned out. Kids need boundaries, they also need these enforcing every time. If you're not consistent, they'll play it. We're probably not that far apart on this one - I'm not meaning that all young parents are automatically poor parents but I think the key is in your second paragraph "I was brought up well" & sadly I think that far too many of the parents around today - certainly many of the 17/18 year old parents today - weren't brought up that way. They can be heard f'ing & blinding at their own kids all the time, have little concept of boundaries themselves and hence their kids unfortunately then learn that this is "normal & acceptable" behaviour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Canis-Equus~ Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Im afraid it doesnt surprise me that people have been assaulted and even killed by 'young people'/yobs/youths... On my estate there have been in the past gangs of kids ranging from 10 to 15ish....and on more than a few occasions i hve been left in absolutely no doubt that they WOULD go as far as killing a person. I was assaulted by a group of five kids, the eldest being 15, the youngest ones ran away when instead of walking on by (to a barrage of abuse and thrown rocks), i turned around and went at them. The 15 year old smirked in my face, all 6ft + of him, and said i couldnt do anything to him, he was only a kid. I said hes old enough to start a fight hes old enough to finish one, and punched him hard enough that he fell off his bike. I am actually lucky that because he has such a bad record with the police already (despite the fact they cannot actually DO anything about his behaviour) that he didnt report ME for assault.... adult attacks child.....mm. The fact is though that this 15 year old and his mates are all sufficiently big and scary enough to attack, rape a woman or kill someone and they just have NO boundaries at all, there IS no line that they feel they mustnt cross. This is why Joe Geeling died, this is why these kids drop concrete blocks off motorway bridges, set fire to wheelybins with a cat inside..... and all the rest. I had a much younger lad on my estate invite himself into my garden and to a barbeque i was having with friends. He was 11, and just showed up and wouldnt leave. There was absolutely NO concept that wandering into someone elses garden, walking around the garden breaking plants and trying to kick dogs was unacceptable, he was actually surprised when i said 'dont kick my dog' and then even MORE surprised when he kicked my dog, and i walloped him for it. Then despite a big red handprint across his face (no i shouldnt have hit him, unfortunately i get a little bit unreasonable when someone boots my dog in the ribs hard to see what ill do about it), he still tried to resist being removed from my garden... so i evicted him by dragging him out by his actual ear and dropping him crying on the pavement. What was i supposed to do though, the local police were not interested, asking him politely to leave had no effect and he seemed hell bent on doing whatever it took to get some sort of a reaction from me (fortunately me, my OH would have done a LOT worse). I dont get much stick from kids on my estate now, most of them have gone because their families have been evicted, those that are left know i WILL beat teh sh!t out of them and call me 'psycho girl' (well i did chase one of them down the street whilst weilding a kitchen knife), but steer WELL clear.... I do wish i could just live here without having to resort to violence to protect myself and my dogs though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rotties Posted August 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 People astound me, they really do... We had the man killed by yobs and joe public were shouting that they wanted something done about the yobs A 12 year old boy has today been in court, for antisocial behaviour. His charge was throwing a cocktail sausage at an elderly gentleman. Joe Public without listening to the full evidence are calling this crazy, and a waste of money. If they would listen this is the third time the police have been to talk to the lad and his mium about his behaviour I say well done to the police for making this young boy face up to the fact that behaviour that affects others is not acceptable and to make his mum take some responsibility too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted August 22, 2007 Report Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) Well I'd sort of agree that it's a waste of money tbh. Police, 3 visits, courts for a 12 year old misbehaving ? My solution, as was said above was somebody should (probably a long time ago have) give em a slap! Edited August 22, 2007 by Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie No Dots Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I know many parents who work full time, and they simply haven't got the energy to engage with their children, or to discipline them if they step out of line, they're glad to see their teenagers out of the house because they get some much needed peace and quiet. Think thats the biggest point. Not aimed at full time workers aimed at families full stop working or not. An 11 yr old boy was shot dead last night by a kid on a bmx for gods sake. Someone want to tell me how the hell a kid got hold of a gun? Someone wasnt watching somewhere. Theres no pride for alot of kids these days. They have nothing to strive for, nothing to be proud of and nothing to do. When i was a kid climbing trees and stuff for fun but these days we worry for years before we let our kids go out of our sight because of the dangers. Then when we let them go they have no idea what to do with themselves so just end up sat around. They go further to feel proud of something maybe smoking or drinking and the next thing someone gives a kid a gun and he kills someone. If we dont come up with something this is only gonna get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemimap Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 I think its all down to bad parenting. Its nothing to do with greater peer pressure or society or whatever. If that was the case ALL children would behave that way and they don't. Personally i think they should bring back national service and teach respect to the lads who's parents can't be bothered to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khanu Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 Why is it when National Service is brought up it only ever seems to apply to boys? If they were to bring it back it would surely have to be for everyone? After all it isn't just lads causing trouble..... However I don't agree with National Service, our Military Services are professional units I can't imagine how offensive it must be to serving members to think that their jobs could and should be done by young people society have no use for. I will however say that the cadet forces (or other similar organisations) do much for young peoples self esteem, I would be very happy to see things like the army/sea/air cadets or the CCF become mandatory for school age children. Ultimately I think it comes down to providing a structure for children to grow up in. To build their self-confidence and self-worth, to show them other ways of behaving, other aspirations (to give them aspirations at all sometimes!). Without the cadets I'm not at all sure how my husband would have turned out. His parents are just rubbish, and take every opportunity to knock him down. One of the first things his Mum said to me was that she didn't know why I was going out with C - he was stupid at school and would never amount to anything The same woman who didn't want to watch him collect his commendation for his work through the July bombings, who told him he should be a postman rather than a policeman. Without cadets I'm pretty sure he would still believe his parents, his self-confidence is pretty poor as it is at times, God knows what it would be like otherwise. I'm convinced it's not just about "knocking some sense" into them or teaching them respect, but more about giving them self-respect first. If you were to ask one of these children want they wanted to do in life you'd probably get a very flippant answer or a grunt with a shrug. Ask another child who has been nurtured and I'm sure they'll give you the latest run down of their plans for the future - it may change with time but they have a dream/plan and what is more important they believe that they are worthy of that dream. I think it is a great shame that so many children today truly believe they are unworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricc Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) Why is it when National Service is brought up it only ever seems to apply to boys? If they were to bring it back it would surely have to be for everyone? After all it isn't just lads causing trouble..... However I don't agree with National Service, our Military Services are professional units I can't imagine how offensive it must be to serving members to think that their jobs could and should be done by young people society have no use for. I will however say that the cadet forces (or other similar organisations) do much for young peoples self esteem, I would be very happy to see things like the army/sea/air cadets or the CCF become mandatory for school age children. Ultimately I think it comes down to providing a structure for children to grow up in. To build their self-confidence and self-worth, to show them other ways of behaving, other aspirations (to give them aspirations at all sometimes!). Without the cadets I'm not at all sure how my husband would have turned out. His parents are just rubbish, and take every opportunity to knock him down. One of the first things his Mum said to me was that she didn't know why I was going out with C - he was stupid at school and would never amount to anything The same woman who didn't want to watch him collect his commendation for his work through the July bombings, who told him he should be a postman rather than a policeman. Without cadets I'm pretty sure he would still believe his parents, his self-confidence is pretty poor as it is at times, God knows what it would be like otherwise. I'm convinced it's not just about "knocking some sense" into them or teaching them respect, but more about giving them self-respect first. If you were to ask one of these children want they wanted to do in life you'd probably get a very flippant answer or a grunt with a shrug. Ask another child who has been nurtured and I'm sure they'll give you the latest run down of their plans for the future - it may change with time but they have a dream/plan and what is more important they believe that they are worthy of that dream. I think it is a great shame that so many children today truly believe they are unworthy wise words, if you haven't self worth and respect you have no foundations to build on. I work with many kids like this and how they feel about themselves and what they think they are worth is tragic. A lost generation that measues success by violence it can inflict and what it can gain from society at no expense to itself. It knows the value of everything and the worth of nothing. Edited August 23, 2007 by elricc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckey-lee Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 in short, it's simple, it's the society that make parents go out to work and not have any time to bring up their kids properly ,and Im speaking in general here,not those wonderfull mums and dads who magane do do a great job at both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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