Where Are We Going Wrong?

[mandy]

Instead of blaming working parents, why don't people turn it round and also look at non-working parents?....the sort that have (out of choice)never done a days work in their lives.

I think that teaches children that there is no need to work hard at school so they can get a job to support themselves and their children.

My son knows (and has done for a long time) that I go to work so I can provide for him and buy luxuries (now and again!)

I think it's about teaching self-respect and social responsibility.

I'm not having a pop at all stay at home mums....far from it...but i hope you know what I mean

[PennyB]

I was listening to R4 this afternoon re 'any answers' and there was an ex magistrate on there and she suggested something a neighbour of mine also did a couple of days before. It was all about the idea of youths actually mixing with adults occasionally or others in the community. The sad fact is that we spend too much time demonising single parents and absent fathers and we should be concentrating on ideas that bring a lot of these youths into contact with more adults (hopefully responsible) from all different backgrounds regardless of whether they're related to us or not rather than the situation at the moment where some only ever spend time with their peers.

 

I think far too many nowadays never go outside their peer group and so don't really know how to act around other groups or members of society.

 

While things have changed re family life the general idea should still be the same --- in the past we had the extended family of various generations that interacted with each other now we seem to split off into groups and don't always mix with other groups so some don't actually get to know the elderly or those younger or the same age as their parents.

 

So lets forget about blaming and work out how to get them involved in the communities they're part of

Edited August 26, 2007 by PennyB

[~Canis-Equus~]

Thats a very good point Penny....... i dont ever see kids round here or hear of them, interacting with adults, other than being told to fcuk off..

 

When I was a kid, well no my upbringing wasnt a bed of roses, both parents had their flaws and in Mothers case she was at times verbally and physically abusive...

 

What we DID get however, was mixing with a very wide range of people of all ages and backgrounds, I and my sister were expected to behave politely and courteously around other people, and encouraged to talk to anyone we liked. And those people we did mix with did not treat children like thickies, but listened and talked as equals.

 

I learned a helluva a lot from some of those people (like how if you stay really quiet in the pub you get to see your first all off stripper at the age of 9..... rofl, how to explode things, how not to drown in a cave, how to take landrovers apart, why used sump oil is not a plaything, ditto builders sand, how to cook, why boys get drunk and take most of their clothes off at parties, that beer doesnt taste that nice, how to put up a tent, how to scuba dive, rock climb, abseil, swear in a variety of languages -where and when its appropriate to swear in a variety of languages, how to be utterly angelic to all adults except your parents.......... joking aside by the age of 11 thats a huge range of skills most kids these days just dont have!)

 

As an adult myself (allegedly), at 27 i have friends ranging from around 16 to 70 odd and i do mean they are friends,not acquaintences.

 

 

Today i was very concerned about a group of around 9 kids playing outside in the street. Whilst yeah,they were doing things i did, running around declaring they hate the opposite sex cos they smell (age range 7 to 9), very VERY worryingly, this gang of kids were flocking round a man i have never seen on this estate in 6 years, and nor have either of my immediate neighbours. Nor had two of these kids parents ever met this man and when he was pointed out (laughing and joking and playing in the woods with these kids where barely anyone can see..........!!!!!!!!), the parents just said 'oh they are with their mates they are ok'........

 

Now yes, i mixed iwth a huge group of adults as a young child, i could count 20 or 30 honourary Aunties and Uncles, ALL of whom my parents knew extremely well. Yes i got to see adult nudity and as a small kid ran around nekkid as a nekkid thing quite a lot (hippy parents, ish)...... but my GOD they would never have just allowed any of us, or anyone ELSES kids to go off out of sight with a stranger!!!!!!

 

I was going to say that i dont think its true that these kids at around 9/10 dont know right from wrong, ie dont know that shooting someone is wrong, dont know that beating the cr*p out of someone is wrong..... and i still think that IS true....

 

But worryingly i DO believe they havent a CLUE how, not just to talk to anyone older or younger than themselves, but how to relate that their intentions and motives/agendas are different too. They have no experience of interacting with anyone but their own peer group, and that i think is very unhealthy and dangerous, and i also think a lot of kids are encouraged to make adult decisions too soon, or if not encouraged, left to do so with no other choice.....

 

(rambling now.... bedtime!)

[PennyB]

Thats a very good point Penny....... i dont ever see kids round here or hear of them, interacting with adults, other than being told to fcuk off..

 

We've just set up a Friends of the park group in our local area to help try and address this. Its early days and at the moment we can only do simple things until we find our feet. But we did a deal with some of the kids in that if they left the bowling green alone (vandalising it) we'd get some football organised for them (which is what they want). We've got some local community police officers to help run things in the autumn. The bowling green and pavillion had fallen into disrepair through lack of use for bowls and vandalism but we've decided we need to keep it as it represents a focal point on the park. Volunteers along with the council have begun repairing and playing 'fun' bowling events twice a week (we also get a handful of kids who come along as well and are actually enjoying it). Eventually we hope that the building will house a ranger (our next campaign), bowls club, cafe and other activities --- it was a simple gesture to keep it up and running as we felt if council demolished it we would lose our focal point and a way of generating more activities for the community in the future, and hopefully there will be a knockon effect re antisocial behaviour. Its hard work and as I said early days and it may not work in the long run but I guess we have to try.

[ReikiAnge]

When was the last time you read, or heard on the news about the normal, happy, productive teenagers? I get fed up with them all being tarred with same brush.

 

Bit like the current media situation for dogs eh? We never (or very rarely) get to hear about how many thousands of dogs are a child's best friend, an elderly person's sole companion etc. We just hear the horror stories which do nothing to lessen any divide.

 

Most of the terrible parenting I see is by parents that don't work though.I've already talked on here of the father of several kids by several women that spends his days in the cafe next door to my office wearing his t shirt emblazoned with 'lazy and proud'.

I've already talked about the 3 year old brought for a developmental check by her parents,when brought in I was told she would fail *laugh laugh* because she was 'fcuking stupid'.The same father,in his house cuddling the very pretty Pears soap type daughter telling her how beautiful she was whilst the less attractive daughter sits on the floor and he says to her....infront of me (I was so gobsmacked) 'not like you you fcuking ugly little b*tch'.

This is what parenting is like these days for many children,it's the sad reality of what I and my colleagues see day in,day out.We deal with the results when we sit on our antisocial behaviour group.Here's the result of it I saw on the BBC local news page earlier today.I bet I can name exactly who has done this Racist grafitti link

 

Kelly I agree with you 110% in what you have said.Low self esteem as a result of cr*p parenting.It's a cyclical thing and sadly it will go on and on repeating itself.I've only been in this job 15 years and I'm seeing it already Well done to C for achieving all he has as it takes guts and determination to fight your way past the mess a parent can make of your life.

 

That's just heartbreaking. That poor child No matter what others may say to her to try to counter that in later life, I suspect she will always remember and to some extent believe what her father has told her What a horrid man

 

I don't know what the answer is to today's apparent "problems" I'm sure the media doesn't help by focusing on all the horrid stories but there do seem to be a lot of stories of groups of children/teenagers attacking people recently, in the last week especially , something I really don't recall happening when I was a child/teenager. Yes we had norty kids, but I don't recall anything this bad happening. It all seems really alien to this country, perhaps I really have been living in a bubble.

 

We do need to look further than the children/teenagers involved though, I think. I don't believe (m)any children brought up in a loving, respectful environment would attack another child/adult/animal. Although there are also plenty of children not brought up in a loving environment who don't go around attacking others either of course.

[Godin]

Oh Jules how can any parent say that to their own child

 

We don't have many children/teens that hang about in gangs round here, you get a few that hang out by the Tesco's express but they are never normally causing trouble and you get kids playing football on the various greens, but I think its the demographic more than anything, the unemployment is virtually non exsistant on this estate, as are single parents I don't think the same can't be said for other areas in the town though

[BillyMalc]

I've already talked about the 3 year old brought for a developmental check by her parents,when brought in I was told she would fail *laugh laugh* because she was 'fcuking stupid'.The same father,in his house cuddling the very pretty Pears soap type daughter telling her how beautiful she was whilst the less attractive daughter sits on the floor and he says to her....infront of me (I was so gobsmacked) 'not like you you fcuking ugly little b*tch'

 

*insert foul expletives here, aimed at sperm donor,errr "father")* I'm not a child friendly person by any stretch of the imagination, but I'd like to take both his kids away, spoil them rotten for the day and, whilst they're tucked up in bed in their new loving foster home, go back to the moron and beat the cr@p out of him - as I'd want to do with anyone who abuses anyone who's not of their calibre. That's the point though, isn't it, those feckers never take on anyone their own size.

[vodaka999]

Well this is gonna be long winded i feel

 

I have been reading this thread with interest tonight because i am on here seething with Billy ( he is 10 ), i dont know what to do with him at the moment. I guess maybe a bit of background might help, i dont even know what i want out of it maybe just the chance to write it down

 

I had Billy when i was 16 and it was by no means a planned pregnancy and yes i was a rebellious teenager and caused my parents no end of grief which i completely regret. I was living in a bedsit and then after about 6 months got a council flat. I was seen by my mates as a doss house and didnt have the guts to say NO, some of them almost lived with me, they stayed over every night and in the end it was really getting me down. So much so that i got my dad ( they always stuck by me no matter what i threw at them ) to write a pretend letter from social services saying everyone had to be gone in 5 days, they believed it and found somewhere else to stay but they still came round all day. This went on for about a year probably and i always thoought these early experiences werent going to affect him but now i wonder. They stole my money and my income support books and after i told them they had to move out i was * burgled * while out Christmas shopping and in the end the police said it was them that had done it. I never spoke to them again but i also never got any of my stuff back.

 

I then had a breif spell on my own and met my ex Kevin when billy was about 16 months old. He took to him from the start and looked after him for me if i needed to pop to the shops ( he was my friends cousin so i trusted him ). We all took a holiday together and it was great then just after we got back he asked to move in and it took me by surprise but i agreed. At first it was great but i have NO doubt his influence in Billys life had a devastating effect on him, he became very violent to me ( not Billy ) but im not naieve enough to think Billy didnt know what went on. We were together for about 6 years all in, and i spent 5 of them thinking of ways to get out and at one point i honestly wondered if i could kill him . He was verbally abusive more than pysically but to the point i would be shaking when he raised his voice and he regularly shouted at/ smashed property of me and Billy but i was scared and didnt know what to do so i feel responsible for putting Billy through that and last year in school he had anger management and self esteem classes as he suffers with both.

 

We have been on our own for about 3 years now and my parents only live around the corner and to be honest i would be lost without them, but that isnt without its problems. My brother is 19 and going off the rails and i think Billy see's Gary having no respect for anyone anymore and doing what he wants when he wants and i feel it IS having an impact on him, and sometimes i think it might be better if we didnt live so close because usually if i say something he doesnt like he goes to my mum.

 

The reason for my post tonight was Billy was in, ready for bed and watching a film and i went in the bath. His friend knocked for him and he said he wasnt going out cos he was watching tv, his friend said come on and he said nah im knackered and again his friend edged him on so i said No your not going out im in the bath, thinking i was helping him out and then he shut the door and said " oh your out of the bath now i can go out, and i told him i didnt want him to and he could go out tomorrow. I said it 3 times and then while i was getting ready for bed he got dressed and went out, he went with no shoes though because i had out them away and he didnt know where they were. He got a pair from my mums. I got angry that he had gone and shouted at him, i dont even know what i said now but he doesnt listen to anything i say anyway.

I read through all the stories of the kids on here and clearly i went wrong somewhere, i mean he has values he helped with the foster dogs we had in and would never hurt an animal he got upset the other day when his friends killed a slug but the little boy that i once had has gone and been replaced with an angry pre teen. He can be nice because some people on here have met him but he isnt very often anymore. He did meet up with his * real * dad last year for a couple of months but he had just had another baby and the new gf wouldnt let him and billy be alone together so after the initial meeting he had to have visits alone with them and he seemed to not want to go anymore, she than rang me and gave me a torrent of abouse about what she thought of Billy then said what time shall we pick him up on Sunday, i said dont bother and they never bothered ringing again, he knows where we are but he obviously doesnt care enough about Billy to make any effort.

 

Im not a fantastic parent by any stretch of the imagination and have never pretended to be but i have done my best its just getting to the stage where my best just isnt good enough. I have just cried my way through this post but i wanted to make the point that some parents of these troubled children DO care but just made mistakes along the way. He is here now so i better go and sort him out i told him he was going to his room when he got home and i intend to follow it through

[Ian]

There's an awful lot in your story there and it sounds to me like you have truly tried to do your best for Billy.

 

You said he's become an angry teen & "somewhere" you'd lost your little boy. I found myself wondering when that was and whether he became angry about something in particular? (eg last year when he appears to have been badly let down by his Dad for a second time & also appears to have needed anger management etc around the same time?)

 

You say that you're not a brilliant parent but DO care & I think that caring counts for a lot. If you can get Billy to talk to you about what he's feeling, or perhaps get some help for the two of you to talk to someone (ie a suitable counsellor, your Dr or a Youth Centre may have someone) you may well be able to overcome any problems you are having.

 

Please try not to lose heart

[Mrs Mop]

Im not a fantastic parent by any stretch of the imagination and have never pretended to be but i have done my best its just getting to the stage where my best just isnt good enough. I have just cried my way through this post but i wanted to make the point that some parents of these troubled children DO care but just made mistakes along the way. He is here now so i better go and sort him out i told him he was going to his room when he got home and i intend to follow it through

 

It is obvious just how much you love Billy and want to do your best for him, we all feel that we are not good enough at times, so you are not alone in this. We all make mistakes with our children but they always come through in the end.

[mum24dog]

It was all about the idea of youths actually mixing with adults occasionally or others in the community. The sad fact is that we spend too much time demonising single parents and absent fathers and we should be concentrating on ideas that bring a lot of these youths into contact with more adults (hopefully responsible) from all different backgrounds regardless of whether they're related to us or not rather than the situation at the moment where some only ever spend time with their peers.

So lets forget about blaming and work out how to get them involved in the communities they're part of

 

Absolutely right.

The travelling village that is the typical agility show is a prime example. There is very little trouble with the kids because everyone knows them and there's always someone to step in and tell them off if necessary.

Younger kids are watched over by the older ones and they can go off on their own as we used to when we were young because most shows provide about as safe an environment as you can get nowadays (but don't tell the KC - health and safety and all that).

Come the evening and if there is entertainment laid on, the young ones are there. If not, chances are there will be a football or rounders match going on with all ages taking part.

They mix with adults of all shapes, sizes and backgrounds from a very early age and they are valued for who they are and what they do rather than dismissed because they are young. They are trusted to do responsible jobs at shows and can compete on an equal basis with the adults. My youngest daughter started judging at open shows when she was just 15 (should have been 14 but 2 shows were cancelled) and she isn't alone.

In fact, she's only just started hanging out with groups of her peers (non agility peers, that is) and she's nearly 17 now.

I think she has been extremely lucky to have had the social experience she has. Pity all children can't have the benefit of similar treatment.

 

Pam

[staffymad]

Lou I actually met Billy (if you remember our traffic riddled journey to wales ) and you might not realise it, I found Billy to be a polite young kid that did as he was asked, said thank you and please and to be honest, if you were a crap parent you would had to prompt him to do so, but you didn't, he was like this by himself.

 

Let's face it, you, I and I would have thought the majority of people here would say 'I was rebellious' and 'I was a wild child'. I was, to the extend that my parents stuck me into a care home for a week for kids parents can't control. I stuck it out and they took me home a week later knowing that they had lost this battle. Do I think today I was right? Hell no, but I also think I haven't turned out too bad, nor have you and I am sure once Billy gets older he will be just fine.