Lets Get Back To Basics

[Tisaann]

In non doggie chatter I have done a post about Memory lane and lots of members are travelling back in time and remembering just how good the 'good old day's' were. This got me thinking, why don't we go back to basics and treat our children as we were treated back in yesteryear time. Let's bring back basic good manners, i.e say pardon instead of wot or Uh, thank you instead of cheers or nothing, bring back eating at the table ( are my children the only one's who say" please may I leave the table" when they have finished eating? ) doing chores and earning pocket money.

 

Tonight I went to parents evening. At my sons school one of the teachers said that soon the children would be given a choice as to whether or not they wanted to be challenged and given a certain exam to do. I told this teacher that he wasn't to give my son the choice he was to tell him he was doing it. One teacher said that my son got distracted in class and cocked an eye when I said that he was the Teacher and it was up to him to sort him out as he saw fit. Lets stop challenging everyone who is trying to help our 'precious little babies' and give them a good start in life.

 

Above all, and the worst one of all, stop the screaming bad language aimed at our kids, as in..........stop 'effin' doing that or I'm going to effing kick you up the effin ars* or will you shut the **ck up

 

My daughter is now 19 and when I asked her how come she never swears at home she replied " because I respect you" I have often sworn at home, not at her but while talking to her and this made me think twice about what language I use now.

 

Any thoughts??????????????

[Ian]

My first thought is you dont say how old you are but your daughters 19. That means you could be around my age (37) - so you most definitely cant remember the Good old days We are far too young for that!

 

However, whilst I wasn't brought up asking to leave the table (some of my friends were) and I don't think I would see a purpose in that one when I eventually have my own children I'd otherwise agree with pretty much everything you've said - especially the effing and blinding at young children! I often think how will that bain grow up when I hear people doing it in this area (half of them little more than kids themselves)

[wickychoo]

I have to say I agree to some extent and I'm only 25. Mum brought me up to ask nicely for things, eat at the table, ask to get down, be polite to my elder etc etc. I actually find it shocking to see parents, some my age, some older, f-ing and blinding at their kids. I swear, more than I should but I put a lid on it when I'm not around friends. I don't know exactly where it all went pear-shaped and I am by no means calling for right-wing policies to come back, I just don't see how we can turn it around.

[K9Fran]

I agree wholeheartedly - my 3 boys have always eaten at the table (it's a treat to eat off laps in the living room, and usually involves fish and chips from 't chippy!) They have chores to do as well (which they don't get paid for - #2 son makes sure everyone has a drink with their evening meal, #3 son lays the table with crockery and condiments and clears the condiments away afterwards, he also puts the recycling in the recycling bin,#2 son empties the dishwasher) as well as chores that they do get paid for (mainly helping with my Puppy School class, laying out the chairs, spraying disinfectant and mopping afterwards) - they have a choice wether they complete these chores and earn this money. Pocket money is earned by keeping their room tidy and complying with a list of expected behaviours (no arguing, being respectful etc.) and can be reduced according to how well they have complied with this list. 'Please' and 'Thank you' are compulsory, as is 'I beg your pardon' - although we are still struggling with those as I suspect it's only required at home, not at school. Yes, their Dad and I swear occasionally, but I try not to in their hearing - they know these are 'big boy words' and not to be used by them - they have alternatives we find acceptable, like 'fudge' and 'sugar'......

 

But, it's hard work, and for couples who both work full time, or single parents, I can imagine it's very hard to maintain those standards all the time - you just don't have the energy. This is why I dispair when I hear that single parents will be forced out to work - they are already doing one of the hardest jobs there is out there (and some of them seem to need help to do that!)

 

I'm proud to be able to say though, that the hard work does pay off, and it's really nice to hear a stranger commenting on how well behaved your children are - like the other day, when a charity worker overheard my two discussing how they would spend their pocket money on sweets - they didn't have enough each to buy what they wanted, so they were pooling their money to buy big packets. We often get comments in restaurants, and when we went to America, we were allowed to upgrade to business class on the return flight, which is unheard of when you have young children - it seems the out bound crew had noticed how well behaved they were, and were happy for us to fly back the luxurious way (and there is no other way to fly - it's business class or nothing for me from now on )

[Mrs Mop]

Tough parenting, it is what children need because then they have boudaries and know what they can and cannot do, these days there are no boudaries which is why there is so many problems with children. How can they learn things like self discipline if they don't understand what discipline is. How can they know about risks and whether to take them or not if they are not allowed to find out what a risk is? Too many children are not allowed to go down to the woods to climb trees even when it is safe to go there.

 

How can children know good manners if they are not told what they are? Many children never learn to say please or thank you now, and normally say, "I want" and get it. What is that teaching children? Children brough up with good manners never forget them although as teenagers they may seem to and it is with them for the rest of their lives which makes their lives so much easier because others respond positively to good manners.

 

When both parents or a single person works full time, they are often too tired to reinforce all this and be tough parents, and although the children get a lot more material things, they are loosing out in their general education. There are parents who manage to do all this, but far too many don't.

[suzeanna]

I think there is a middle way between the way people of my age were brought up, and what is sadly only too common nowadays. I had to finish a meal, even if I didn't like it...if I didn't, it just reappeared heated up at the next mealtime! I couldn't take a book from a shelf or get a biscuit without asking permission first, I would never have dreamed of interrupting while adults were speaking, and I certainly didn't answer my mother back. I tried that once, when I was nearly sixteen, and got a resounding slap across the face and was sent to my room and not allowed out for a week! No speaking at the dinner table, no putting elbows on the table etc etc. Admittedly my mother might have been stricter than most as my dad died when I was six and she brought me up alone, but all of my contemporaries shared the same manners.

My children are now around forty, they were brought up with more leniency than I had but still had the manners instilled, and we always sat a table to eat. The way kids are nowadays makes me shudder, there are five or six year olds around this estate who use language I didn't even know until I was in my twenties, and the other day a lad of around fifteen was walking down the road with what looked like his mum and grandma, swearing like a trooper and they didn't bat an eyelid!

I think the liberal society has a lot to answer for, when I was at school if you got into trouble you daren't mention it at home as you got into more, but nowadays parents go rushing to the school to complain that their little darling shouldn't have been told off at all. I agree children need boundaries, I think a lot of parents these days either dont have time for their kids, or want to be their *best friends* and daren't deny them anything they want, or tell them off.

[Ingrid]

There is a middle line, my kids now both in their 20s are totally different at home to what they were outside.

Swearing was allowed in the house if there was a good reason, swearing outside was a big no!

They also knew that if they misbehaved and were caught out I would be told (my neighbours are like that) depending on what they had done sometimes it would be overlooked if it was minor, but it meant they normally told me before I heard elsewhere, they also knew I would stick up for them if they were wrongly accused

A lot of my friends thought I was hard on my girls but as they grew up I had no trouble from them, whereas many of there friends have had police visits etc.

I still get compliments on how they are, they learnt to respect others and their property, they knew if they had problems I was here for them, and still am.

We never sat up to a table for meals for the simple reason that we didn't have a place large enough to have a table except on special occasions.

I beleive their has to be a happy medium of allowing kids to enjoy their childhood but teaching them respect and manners, and giving them some freedom to just be themselves.

[cycas]

To be honest, my mother was a fairly laid-back hippy chick, so the whole sit at table, don't talk back, etc, thing passes me by pretty much entirely. We ate many meals on our laps (many made by us, not Mum, because she's slightly disfunctional in the cooking department, though she's improved a lot over her 70's form where tinned chunky chicken on toast and fish fingers featured heavily.)

 

On the whole we cleaned our rooms when we started tripping over things, and never had to earn pocket money. I guess I must from time to time have been told not to do something, but I honestly can't remember much that was off-limits: mostly she used the good old dog-training techniques of distraction and bribery. I never really did the teen rebellion thing, but I remember my sister going through that stage (I think she must have picked the idea up at school) and the poor girl had to struggle soooo hard to find something to rebel against, it was quite sad...

 

I'd say the guidance we had from our parents was more in the areas of encouragement, listening, thinking education was important, providing mountains of books and creative materials, discussing news stories and moral dilemmas of various sorts.

 

I think that sort of thing works very well for some children: the problem comes when you have barely-literate parents who have never had much time or effort invested in them by anyone, trying to work out how to guide their own children. They may not even realise that other approaches are even possible, and I feel very sorry for them. (while, emphatically not wanting to live next door! Been there, got that t-shirt...)

[jax39]

What really makes me mad is the school walk. Everyday without fail I hear mums, sometimes dad, screaming and swearing at their kids. If they think that is the norm, how will they ever learn any different? My daughter has been taught manners, but if the parents arent teaching the kids, what is the answer? Again, lack of discipline at home and at school doesnt help matters.

[KathyM]

I think to be honest, the days of being able to raise kids like I was raised have been and gone (God I make myself sound old!).

 

I can't let my kids run the streets/fields like I could when I was little in the village I grew up - and that's not just down on where we live, it'd be the same there now. So I think times have changed what "risks" we can allow our kids to learn themselves, because there are far greater risks out there today that that would leave them open to.

 

Language has changed with the times, I don't remember hearing *anyone* swear when I was little. My sister once called my Dad a rude name, thinking it meant the same as "twit" (lol - I think you can guess what word from that) and that's the only time I can remember. Today everyone swears, admittedly I do too, although my kids don't and I try to refrain in front of them (but I aint perfect *lol*). There are certain words that were frowned upon back when I was little that just don't bother me and I don't mind the kids saying (eg. crap). Abusive language or tone is much more frowned upon here, we feel the intention of words is far more important than the words themselves. I was banned from watching the A Team when I was about 7 because Mr T said the word "bitch". Today that's more commonly used, but I feel that's much more inappropriate language than some words commonly seen as "worse".

 

Table manners etc, to be honest, as long as someone isn't being grossly rude or disgusting, and remembers please and thank you, I'm not bothered about whether they have the right cutlery in the right hand, etc. Courtesy and respect is much more important to me.

 

So, in short, I think the times have changed, not our intentions.

[Jemimap]

Not having children of mine own i can't comment on what i do but i intend to bring them up the way i was. That means manners, not swearing and respecting elders, finishing our meals and asking if we could leave the table. i always had to earn my pocket money.

 

I always say please and thankyou and i swear badly but never ever in front of my parents.

 

i'm quite old fashioned for my age i suppose but i'd rather be like that then be one of many parents i see who seem to take their kids to the supermarket just to swear at them!

 

There was a really interesting programme on a couple of weeks ago called "It never did me any harm", where parents introduced the rules they had as children and that included the technology available at the time. I only saw 2 episodes but it was very good and both families seemed happier as a result.

[Fee]

Interesting. I have two girls of 11 and 15, and am an older parent than most here (I'm in my early 50's).

 

I didn't have a particularly formal or strict upbringing. My parents were kind, cheerful, relaxed and invariably polite to one another and to us as children. There was a lot of humour and a lot of laughter. I don't remember many rules nor any punishments, yet I somehow grew up loving and respecting my parents and turned out to be (I think) a reasonably polite, law abiding person.

 

As parents I think we are in turn pretty relaxed, again we've never gone much for formal rules - if the family can sit and talk and laugh together over a meal then expecting children to sit primly until they are 'excused' or worrying unduly about elbows on tables seems counter-productive, somehow. I guess there's still time for horrible teenage rebellions, but at the moment I couldn't be prouder of my girls. They are good company at home and doing really well at school.

 

I suppose my only 'rule' is a general expectation that people in the household will treat each other with respect and tolerance - and somehow it seems to work. On the whole I think children learn much more from example than they do from rules, and will treat others as they are treated themselves.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Fee

[ReikiAnge]

Fee your girls are lovely and I think you've both done a grand job of parenting

[staffymonkey]

I suppose my only 'rule' is a general expectation that people in the household will treat each other with respect and tolerance - and somehow it seems to work. On the whole I think children learn much more from example than they do from rules, and will treat others as they are treated themselves.

 

That sums it up for me. I don't have kids - but if and when I do, that's how I'd like to bring them up, though maybe I wouldn't use the word respect? More like be considerate, polite and thoughtful towards others - whatever their age and relationship to you - and be tolerant. I'll teach them good manners too, because my biggest pet hate is people not saying please and thank you (or cheers - the words don't matter to me, it's the intent) - so maybe I'm not as tolerant as I'd like to be .

 

The word respect, well, it's a funny one for me. It puts my back up, as has connotations of subservience. makes me think, straight away, of teh phrase 'respecting your elders and 'betters' '. It's a phrase I personally really don't like. IMO, age shouldn't automatically mean a thing. It seems (to me anyway) no different that saying 'women must respect men'.

 

I believe in treating EVERYONE with politeness and decency, and make sure you actually listen to other people's opinions, but only truly respecting those who've proved them selves worthy. After all, people of all ages can be small minded bigots; age doesn't automaticaly equate to wisdom. Or a licence to forget common decency, tolerance and good manners.

 

But then, I guess it all depends on your definition of the word 'respect'...

Edited March 28, 2007 by staffymonkey

[sam]

My first thought is you dont say how old you are but your daughters 19. That means you could be around my age (37) - so you most definitely cant remember the Good old days We are far too young for that!

t

well i fall into this age group & i was most definitely brought up the proper way, asking to leave the table, manners, no swearing etc. I see no reason why people seem unable to do so these days, its appalling.