Lets Get Back To Basics

[greys mum]

I bought my children up to be polite and to say please and thank you. They had quite a relaxed upbringing, but there were house rules. They also were expected to help/do chores according to their age. I don't like swearing and they were not allowed to use "strong swearing" in the house or around me. People have different ideas as to what is acceptable. (Like my ex who complained to Blue Peter because one of the presenters said fart.) When he said they had used the "F" word, I thought of something completely different!!

 

Now the eldest 2 are mid to late 20's they swear like troopers. I still pull them up about it if they are in my home.

 

Where did I go wrong?

[Kathyw]

My Dad swore like the proverbial trooper but only in his own home and never directly at us. He never swore in anyone else's home even if they did, yet we never swore as children, we knew better.

We had to ask to leave the table and please and thank you were automatic responses for us.

 

My Dad's attitude was that children are given to you for you to be their guardians until they are old enough to shift for themselves.

Your 'job' was to equip them for the outside world.

 

You can let them get away with everything and never say NO but the world won't do that and they will learn hard lessons if you have not given them the basics.

 

I never really swore alot till marrying Ray, he uses words that my Dad would have choked on and perhaps because of familiarity I use those same words even though I hate them. Yet when I am with my old friends, I never ever use those words. weird?

[elricc]

This post will be rambling as I could go on for ages lol

I teach kids/14-16 who have the inability to say two words without swearing, who have never eaten at a table at home, whose only food at home is toast and who see McDonalds as the ultimate luxury. They often have reached the age of 10 12 with the inability to use a knife and fork as no one uses them, its all finger quick food. They regale me in a total matter of fact way about their latest exploits and their latest family imprisonments. They have NO role models, how on earth do we expect them to learn how to behave in a way that society sees as OK without anyone showing them this at the time of their life when they need that input. I also work in the 9th most deprived ward in the country, however I refuse to use poverty as an excuse for them, its verry much parental attitude and ingrained habits of 3/4 generations, also inability to suceed in conventional ways means that they struggle to find a way to be noticed. You honestly have no idea what is normal to these kids ( I am still shocked at times what is normal to them) However, given appropriate role models they can suceed and do as long as they can overcome their families who laugh at them and ridicule them for having aspirations and dreams. I have to say that I also have built through very hard work a rapportt with these young people and can talk with them about why its important to not swear and what it makes people think of them, but you really do have to teach this and explain to them as nobody at home will. Many of them are so amoral and feral they don't understand the basic decensies you or I take for granted.

I have started to run parenting classes for some parents as they also so not have a clue having been brought up in the same manner.

These young people lack the ability to not swear, they were not brought up with the vocabulary to express themselves adequately (although not always) . The brain has a limited time to acquire communications skills and vocabulary processing. Often my kids have never had their vocab stimulated at the correct time in their development.

 

Sorry but I feel very passionate about this, if a dog has not been socialised, we don't expect them all to behave in an acceptable way by instinct. I am afraid it is very much the same for some young people, and often we are not attacking their challenging behaviour early enough.

[Tisaann]

Goodness me, a lot of you have picked up on the table manners and mine are not as rigid as I may have come across. When we were kids we finished our meal and said 'please may I leave the table' It was said in the same way as if my parents left the table before us they would always say 'excuse me'. It wasn't us begging to leave and having to wait until our wish was granted, it was just said to be polite. The same way I taught my kids. For the past couple of years we haven't had a table and have eaten on our laps but the kids now say 'please may i leave the chair' they haven't been told to and at 19 and 15 I think that they are old enough to just get up but I guess it's habit. (there was many a time when I was growing up that we sat at the table and suddenly for no reason my brother and I would just start laughing and laughing and then get sent down from the table) (happy day's)

 

I was once in a take away shop and my eyes kept being drawn to a man and his 2 young children and in the end I just had to say to the man that his children were so polite and well mannered that they were a credit to him. I do find that when I hear children talking nowadays I am doing just that, hearing. But when I hear children talking and using manners then my ears seem to prick up and notice

[EGAR]

Every autumn I make the rounds in the local schools here talking to children about Animal Welfare, in particular the importance of neutering (bear in mind, I live in the armpit of rural Ireland), so most of the kids are from farms. Every year I get laughs when I do the math of a bitch having two litters a year with 6 pups in each litter, how many dog do you get after 10 years etc. And what do they laugh at? The word BITCH because they think I am swearing in front of their teachers. And every year I make them look up the word in the dictionary as they haven't got a clue what it really means.

 

I have NEVER cursed in my life, until I came to Ireland... Even in the States, I used to say *ah, shhhoot* or *ah, shhhhugar* if you get my meaning. But here literally everyone curses and I picked up on it, dealing with old farmers/cruelty cases etc. No one took me serious until I started swearing .

 

My 2 1/2 year old has picked up on it and although it isn't entirely my fault as his dad swears inside and outside the house like there is no tomorrow, I do blame myself for it. I do ignore him when he says OH FECK but he gets laughs wherever he goes as they seem to think it ever so cute - I myself find it rather embarrassing...

[Allie No Dots]

My kids dont swear. Strong statment its seems these days but my eldest (11) just wouldnt dare!lol I swear and sometimes i(often!) in front of the kids but the most i get is them spelling the word out and asking what it means They dont ask to leave the table but i make apoint of this is dinner when you say you have had enough food you leave (and thats your food over!lol) We often sit around talking and stuff tho so its often me saying "who wants to help me wash up" that clears them away quickly!

 

Please and thank you are inbuilt in my kids. If they ask for something and dont say please i say "pardon" and they ask again properly. My kids arent angels, they fight and can be a real pain at times but they have manners and are good kids. My neighbours kids dont and it drives me nuts simple things like (and this is my pet hate again this summer!) them hanging over a 6 ft fence to see whats going on in our garden or yell at me ((repeatedly) cos they want to talk when its pretty clear im up to my eyes in dogs or kids or both.

[boosboss]

(there was many a time when I was growing up that we sat at the table and suddenly for no reason my brother and I would just start laughing and laughing and then get sent down from the table) (happy day's)

 

You say for no reason, but we all know it was your Uncle Keith you were laughing at

 

 

 

 

Please may I leave the pc?

 

[fee4]

a friend of mine works in one of the big urban poverty areas outside Glasgow....she is a child/adolescance mental health nurse.

 

she rang me in fits having had a session with a mother/child...which went something like this

think strong glasgow accent.

 

"i cant think where the little fucker picks up this f****** ideas-who told the c*** that he could shout at any bastard he wants too? it aint right-so i walloped him and said thatll teach you-dont you go f****** swearing at the bloody teacher again"

 

it was only when that was played back to her that the mother realised-maybe, just maybe little Johnny had learnt to swear fom her.......she honestly didnt realise what she was saying.....and i dont think she is alone

 

fee

[phoenix]

i make my kids stand in the corner faceing the wall when naughty they HATE that

[babsc71]

I teach kids/14-16 who have the inability to say two words without swearing, who have never eaten at a table at home, whose only food at home is toast and who see McDonalds as the ultimate luxury. They often have reached the age of 10 12 with the inability to use a knife and fork as no one uses them, its all finger quick food. They regale me in a total matter of fact way about their latest exploits and their latest family imprisonments. They have NO role models, how on earth do we expect them to learn how to behave in a way that society sees as OK without anyone showing them this at the time of their life when they need that input. I also work in the 9th most deprived ward in the country, however I refuse to use poverty as an excuse for them, its verry much parental attitude and ingrained habits of 3/4 generations, also inability to suceed in conventional ways means that they struggle to find a way to be noticed. You honestly have no idea what is normal to these kids ( I am still shocked at times what is normal to them) However, given appropriate role models they can suceed and do as long as they can overcome their families who laugh at them and ridicule them for having aspirations and dreams. I have to say that I also have built through very hard work a rapportt with these young people and can talk with them about why its important to not swear and what it makes people think of them, but you really do have to teach this and explain to them as nobody at home will. Many of them are so amoral and feral they don't understand the basic decensies you or I take for granted.

 

These young people lack the ability to not swear, they were not brought up with the vocabulary to express themselves adequately (although not always) . The brain has a limited time to acquire communications skills and vocabulary processing. Often my kids have never had their vocab stimulated at the correct time in their development.

 

Sorry but I feel very passionate about this, if a dog has not been socialised, we don't expect them all to behave in an acceptable way by instinct. I am afraid it is very much the same for some young people, and often we are not attacking their challenging behaviour early enough.

 

 

 

 

Ditto to all of the above.

[~Canis-Equus~]

I was brought up to ask to leave the table, to say please and thankyou, hold doors open for people, not swear (although at home we were allowed to say sh1t should we hurt ourselves...... and words like crap, bitch, arse, were not considered particularly foul, of course that was dependant on the company and the context.....)

 

A great deal of attention was paid to manner, tone of voice etc, and there was plenty of fairly painful punishment if that type of rule was broken (my mother had an incredibly, lightning fast slap across the face in her).

 

As a result of our, whilst not perfect behaviour, but our understanding of the rules, we were taken to places and welcomed in places small children generally aren't (the 80s being a lot less child friendly than these days if you think back).

 

One thing i specifically wasnt taught by my parents was teh 'respect your elders' line.... and thats one i never liked coming from teachers etc.... the concept that a child is a second class citizen... everyone should be treated with respect, you shouldnt treat anyone in a way you wouldnt wish to be treated yourself.... i could never get to grips with why I as a child, was 'lesser' than an adult. (although that is the common opinion as proved the number of times adults would push in front of me in queues, talk down to me as if i was lacking in the mental department, manhandle me, grab my hair (to exclaim over its thickness or curliness) or make personal comments....... )

 

Probably explains why as a kid i was frequently in trouble - i respected those who deserved respect, i didnt respect those who treated me like a moron..... oh well

 

IF i were to have kids now, i see no reason why i wouldnt instigate similar rules (although obviously minus the physical punishment meted out by Mother....).

 

Em