Jacobean Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Greyhounds aren't bred for temperament. Trainers aren't bothered if they get on with other dogs or not. They are muzzled whilst out and when racing. They are bred to try and get a quick dog. Most of the litter won't make it as a racer. One or two maybe. The others have nowhere to go. The whole of the litter at some stage will be left high and dry. If a trainer cares they will be rehomed somewhere. Most will be killed. The statistics presented speak for themselves. There is only one answer to this. Greyhound racing needs to stop. For the sake of the dogs who don't even make it to the racetrack there can be no reform. Most are killed and a lot brutally. How anyone can think it's ok for racing to continue if welfare for the greyhounds that race is great is beyond me. There is no magic wand that can be waved to save the tens of thousands that die. Never mind the problems that those that race face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Your categories seem a bit too black and white to me Terrier. Not all pets are bred from puppy farms / commercial breeders, and not all 'good' breeders breed just for the show ring. So the latter arguably (ie breeders who care about the health and temperament of the breed and not the 'look') is one place where the healthy pets of the future come from (assuming there is no need for rescues of course). You seem to be assuming that if dogs don't have job , activity or 'purpose' then they will all be badly bred. I disagree. Humans are now far removed from our hunter gatherer beginnings, and greyhounds were not originally meant to run round a an artificial track. Owners do not, to my knowledge, run round the track with their dog to 'bond' - in fact many owners probably haven't even met their dog - it is just money making investment to them. Which is wrong in my view. If the demise of greyhound racing led to other activities being scrutinised for welfare issues then I don't have a problem with that tbh. Any activity that causes suffering or welfare issues for dogs is wrong imho. I do not see what right humans have to expect that dogs should be overbred / badly treated / disposed of in order to fulfil a human need. I also don't agree that any loss of amateur sports (some of which haven't been around for that long either) means the loss of dogs per se. Are you saying you agree with the view that their should be no such thing as dogs that are purely pets / companions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Sorry Terrier, but I'm really getting lost on your reasoning for greyhound racing to continue. You seem to have taken a few breeds of pedigree dog where they have been bred to extremes as a reason to continue breeding greyhounds for racing. I can't get my head around that at all. There are plenty of dogs being bred to breed standard that aren't being bred to extremes, surely? You mention working v show type breeds, of which Labs are an obvious one, but show bred labs can still be bred very healthily, with breeders doing the relevant breed health tests and selling to good homes (and some breeders aim to breed labs that are "dual purpose" I gather). So maybe they can't all do the job they were bred for originally, but at least they are healthy and happy in their homes, which is the most important thing for me anyway. I guess I see that every pet dog has a "job" of sorts - being a loving and loyal companion and receiving the same in return from their owner, something that I feel is of immense importance to a dog and yet I suspect the vast majority of greyhounds lack I honestly don't understand how anyone that cares about dogs can see the breeding of greyhounds for racing as a good thing They are bred in the main to make money, killed if they are no use to the industry, raced until they're injured/too old/too slow to race anymore and then the lucky ones are dumped in rescue (I appreciate there are a few exceptions that take their own dogs into retirement but I don't know if even they live the life we would want and expect for our own older dogs). How is racing a good thing for the dogs? How would ending it be a bad thing for the dogs? What has this got to do with other breeds being bred? I do agree with you about the commercial element to greyhound racing being a MAJOR worry. The commercial "element"? That is the main crux of greyhound racing as we know it, isn't it? Take that away and greyhound racing as we know it, would end - and what a blessing for the breed that would be IMO. I would like to see an end to both greyhound racing and puppy farming and to see any dogs bred, come into this world with responsible breeders. What a joy that would be to see in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhound pal Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 So many fab posts here I really don't have anything to add. Tried to get on to post before I went camping straight from nightshift but didn't get a chance to post. Just want to ask Terrier - do you still think that there is room to rehome all the greyhounds once the industry has declared they're no good? Can answer why this would be impossible although I think the figures really speak for themself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mop Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 There is nothing to stop betting on flyball etc now. Many people will bet on anything no matter what it is and if they don't have something to bet on they will find something. Doesn't mean that we have to stand back and let them carry on with Greyhound racing. I disagree. There is a lack of a market for betting on (eg) flyball, possibly because greyhound racing is still available for those that want to bet. Not sure I understand what you are saying here, if people wanted to bet on flyball, agility etc, they can bet now. The fact that they don't doesn't mean that they won't in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Up until this point, I think we have all managed to discuss the subject politely, whatever our feelings on the matter or what others have to say. Can we keep it this way please (I have removed the post I refer to above ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mop Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Sorry Ange, I really didn't understand what was being said, I wasn't trying to be nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Sorry Margaret, I have removed a post, it wasn't anything you said but a post made after it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redditchlady Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Sorry Margaret, I have removed a post, it wasn't anything you said but a post made after it It was mine. Sorry Ange for being a pain in the bum. It does grieve me though. Will back out now. Kazz xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helly Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Quite apart from the fact that it's a great way for a dog and owner to bond - (ie. taking part in activities together), a dog that is bred for a specific activity must be able to perform that activity. This usually requires a certain level of health/fitness and/or a certain temperament. It's a concern because if we lost the amateur sports, where would the next generation of dogs come from? What would the next generation of dogs be bred for? You know what Terrier? I look forward to the day when I have to find the next generation of dogs to come into my home as a rescue. I dream of the day when I can go to a rescue and not see half the kennels filled with greyhounds and long to bring them all home. And if the day came when greyhounds wernt ten a penny, I would find another dog that needs me and what i can offer. I will give up my love of greyhounds if it saves thousands in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobean Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 (edited) "A dog that is bred for a specific activity must be able to perform that activity" This statement is incorrect. I have 2 Hungarian Vizslak. Hunt, Point, Retrievers. Very active dogs. They've not had training to go on a hunt. They're my pets. We have good walks and play lots of games. They love to play fight. They love to jump in water. On the odd occasion we throw them dummies to catch. I have a JRT here who has most definitely been worked. I'm fostering him at the moment. He's quite content with walks and spends most of the time kipping and having cuddles. As long as they are stimulated in a fun way they're happy. Edited July 30, 2008 by Jacobean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Last night after reading Laura's post about the dogs bought at auction and taken to spain - the stuff of nightmares, I have a question or two - I think Laura, Claz or Greyhound Pal would be able to maybe answer for me. My dream, like yours, is the total abolishment of animal racing, if the betting offices want to continue making money, let the punters bet on highly paid humans who run around with balls, drive fasat cars etc and benefit financially for their efforts, not the animals who do not. If racing was abolished would it stop the auctions? would people who breed Greyhounds continue because the market is still open for them in spain etc? Would places like the peterborough auctions go out of business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 What I'm saying is that breeding for a purpose requires a certain level of fitness and/or reliable temperament. That doesn't necessarily mean ALL-ROUND fitness I grant you - but ensuring their fitness in some areas is surely better than not ensuring their fitness at all. WRT raising dogs for non-commercial purposes. I think we're at cross purposes here. I am not in favour of commercial breeding. NOT AT ALL. Where do you suggest that the next generation of dogs should come from if not those that are bred for a purpose? Or does that not matter? Alternatively, do you believe that the amateur sports would be left alone if commercial racing were killed off? Depends how the legislation is worded. I'm dubious as to whether most dog sports are really suitable for commercialisation on the scale of greyhound racing, but I would expect that any reasonably well thought out legislation would be worded in such a way that this would be impossible. The campaigns call for 'ban greyhound racing' because that is, I think, fairly clear and self-explanatory as a campaign message, but any law is of course going to be a lot more carefully worded than to just say 'greyhound racing is banned' ! I would hope everyone has learned from the BSL debacle that legislation that names specific breeds of dog is messy and unenforceable. Greyhound Action, for example, has been campaigning for betting companies to transfer their involvement in live greyhound racing to virtual greyhound racing - I think there is potential there, and this would help reduce the economic impact of the laws on everyone but those directly involved in training and racing live dogs. I would suggest a sensible approach to legislation would be instead of defining greyhound racing as 'what greyhounds do', look at the revenue streams for the industry and define 'greyhound racing' legally as any industry involving live dogs that uses these revenue streams. Then prohibit that. I imagine that there would probably be some impact on some fun sports, but in many areas of life we have exemptions for small scale fun activities, and governments usually consult widely on this sort of thing : I really don't think it would be too difficult to provide in the legislation for these. I don't think that the demise of the greyhound racing industry would be the end of greyhounds: racing is a comparitive eyeblink in their long history. Nor do I think that greyhounds bred by a few responsible breeders would suddenly be riddled with problems. I'm sure there would be problems, but just the reduction in volume and the ability to assess dogs on their health past the age of 5 would be a good start. Of course, in that case most of the greyhound owners posting in this thread would probably not then have greyhounds, which would join the Afghan and the whippet as a relatively uncommon breed of pet sometimes taking part in fun competitions and non-commercial dog sports. Instead most of us would probably be adopting other breeds of UK bred dogs, or of course there is sadly an ample supply of sighthounds and greyhounds 'surplus to requirements' from other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kats n greys Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I believe all race tracks have shut in Spain, though I don't know whether some greyhound still end up there because the galgeros like to cross them with the spanish galgos . Italy no longer has any tracks. Unfortunately greyhound racing is growing in popularity in the east, Korea, China and Vietnam Not to mention its still popular in Australia. But we need to end racing in the UK and hopefully Eire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jane-f Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Depends how the legislation is worded. I'm dubious as to whether most dog sports are really suitable for commercialisation on the scale of greyhound racing, but I would expect that any reasonably well thought out legislation would be worded in such a way that this would be impossible. The campaigns call for 'ban greyhound racing' because that is, I think, fairly clear and self-explanatory as a campaign message, but any law is of course going to be a lot more carefully worded than to just say 'greyhound racing is banned' ! I would hope everyone has learned from the BSL debacle that legislation that names specific breeds of dog is messy and unenforceable. Greyhound Action, for example, has been campaigning for betting companies to transfer their involvement in live greyhound racing to virtual greyhound racing - I think there is potential there, and this would help reduce the economic impact of the laws on everyone but those directly involved in training and racing live dogs. I would suggest a sensible approach to legislation would be instead of defining greyhound racing as 'what greyhounds do', look at the revenue streams for the industry and define 'greyhound racing' legally as any industry involving live dogs that uses these revenue streams. Then prohibit that. I imagine that there would probably be some impact on some fun sports, but in many areas of life we have exemptions for small scale fun activities, and governments usually consult widely on this sort of thing : I really don't think it would be too difficult to provide in the legislation for these. I don't think that the demise of the greyhound racing industry would be the end of greyhounds: racing is a comparitive eyeblink in their long history. Nor do I think that greyhounds bred by a few responsible breeders would suddenly be riddled with problems. I'm sure there would be problems, but just the reduction in volume and the ability to assess dogs on their health past the age of 5 would be a good start. Of course, in that case most of the greyhound owners posting in this thread would probably not then have greyhounds, which would join the Afghan and the whippet as a relatively uncommon breed of pet sometimes taking part in fun competitions and non-commercial dog sports. Instead most of us would probably be adopting other breeds of UK bred dogs, or of course there is sadly an ample supply of sighthounds and greyhounds 'surplus to requirements' from other countries. Sorry but i just needed to point something out, you will find the whippet is very common and isnt run in many fun competitions much any more, the whippet is heading the same way as the greyhound is now, they are raced in betting races for the general public, talking to the woman from the breed society who is the re-homer for the breed a few months ago, they are getting quite a few whippets in for re-homing, both show and x racing dogs, you only have to look on K9 to see the amount of people who race whippets at race tracks the amount of whippet racing clubs there are now, there has even been started a whippet racing club federation who drug tests the dogs before races, if its only fun why do they need to test the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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