Buying Or Rescuing.

[sanrossscot]

Sandra, do you mind if I ask why you aren't sure if you could take on a rescue? You're an experienced owner who seems to put in a lot of effort to train/do stuff with your dogs. Just curious, no obligation to answer!

 

I think mainly because of work, I do work long hours sometimes and my three cope well. The girls were accustomed gradually, Mum had them initially (she is now 500 miles away) and Glen went to a friend and also had the girls for company and to learn from. I also think just now that three is my limit Also, as I work full time, I would have less time to put to training/retraining any habits/behaviours a rescue brought with them. Again when I got the girls my hours were fixed, now they are not eg yesterday I went to work at 10.30 came home at 4 then had to go out again at 9.15pm and wasn't back home until 4pm today. OH works 12 hour shifts so it would be a lot for a new dog to cope with (I could theoretically end up being away for days on end with little/no notice)

 

I wouldn't take Tia to meet any new dog as she would not be able to cope, Glen came after long discussion with my friend and trainer who is also a behaviourist. Most rescues have set criteria re working hours/meeting existing dogs etc which I fully understand. Should in the future a dog/bitch come up that I thought would 'fit' and a rescue was prepared to be flexible then it may happen. Possibly when my older girls are gone (perish the thought ) I would also be more prepared to have a dog walker which I won't have now because of T-bag

 

(On that note, just off to dog training )

Edited June 19, 2009 by sanrossscot

[BillyMalc]

Ian I work with teenagers who have appaling lives, I save my compassion for the real tribulations of life, that people can't make informed decisions about, abuse etc etc

I am not compassionate about choices that people choose to make, I don't see that this is worthy of compassion in my view ( but I am a black and white person) it's the consequences of a personal choice

 

Totally agree with you Elricc. I don't call myself 'black & white' tho, I'm quite happy to be called a cantankerous old git

 

 

I'm not sure whether this is still entirely on topic but I'm not suggesting that you (or anyone else) isn't entitled to hold - and indeed voice, within reason - their opinion (my critics over the years have also accused me of being too black & white on some issues), but merely that once you've stated your position you sometimes just have to agree to disagree.

 

Taking responsibility I could accept, to a point but a blanket "personal choice" as you seem to describe it strikes me as a dangerous road to go down - For example fat people, drug addicts, homosexuals / lesbians (some believe that's also a choice), smokers, jews etc etc could or have all had someone out there deciding that they don't deserve treatment, do deserve something worse etc etc. Who will decide what is "acceptable" in life in the end?

 

At the end of the day you can't make anyone want to rescue or buy or choose any particular breed, age etc - the choice is theirs. Turn it into good guy bad guy & you only lose whatever support / goodwill you previously had. If however you can still work with them on things you do agree on then you may achieve something you both want.

 

That is a very dangerous analogy. People definitely do not choose to be homosexual or jewish. Just because it isn't an obviously visible part of their make-up, like, say, skin colour, it doesn't mean that it's not something genetic, i.e. completely beyond people's control. As for obesity, smoking and using drugs, whether that is by choice or not is a very interesting topic, but possibly one that deserves its own thread as well.

 

 

Thats a good point Liz and one I've wondered about myself. There are people here who buy or have bought horses, there are people who breed cats, rats and snails DESPITE there being many thousands of these animals in rescues.

It always surprises me that no-one in the "other animals" forum get slated yet when it comes to dogs they do [and I've done it myself!]

 

Wha do you mean we're not all perfect? I am

 

I hardly ever venture in the 'other animals' section, because I have less affinity with other animals and don't feel I'd have much to contribute. It might be because of my own lack of experience that I think that rehoming other animals than dogs and cats is less well known. Even so, I personally would never ever pay someone, other than a rescue, for an animal and should there ever come a time that I could have a couple of horses my first thought would be to search the net etc for rescues or horses needing rehoming, again with a list of "wants and needs" that would match a horse who needs a home. And again, whether that horse turns out to be a discarded Arab stallion (less likely) or a little fat non-descript old pony (more likely) it wouldn't matter to me. If they fit the bill of a horse that would be happy to live with me and I'd love to have around then that's all that matters.

 

And on the point of education: it's been said already, but what I find particularly gutting is that long term members of this forum are not "Jo/Joe Public". If people have been members and posted on here for some time then they undoubtedly have come across the "animals needing homes" section, and surely have read loads of posts about people's rescue dogs and everything rescuing entails. If those people then still go out and buy a dog, and come back with a post with a headline that basically says "I know all the facts but I've bought a dog anyway and I don't care what you think" then that makes me really sad, because if the message doesn't get through to members here then what chance have we got educating Jo/Joe Public?

 

Indeed.

 

At the end of the day we're all adults and are free to make our own decisions, whether other people agree with them or not.

No-one should be made to feel unwelcome or that they can't post.

 

It might have been Eleanor Roosevelt who once said: "No one is able to make you feel inferior without your consent", and I think that that is an excellent quote. If you are happy with your decision then it shouldn't matter what other people think about it. At the same time, if I feel totally gutted by someone's decision then I don't want to feel unable to post my opinion either, as it might make the person feel unwelcome.

[Happylittlegreensquirrel]

It might have been Eleanor Roosevelt who once said: "No one is able to make you feel inferior without your consent", and I think that that is an excellent quote. If you are happy with your decision then it shouldn't matter what other people think about it. At the same time, if I feel totally gutted by someone's decision then I don't want to feel unable to post my opinion either, as it might make the person feel unwelcome.

 

 

Billys that really sums up my feelings and I love the Eleanor Roosevelt quote

 

 

 

I am personally not pro buying from breeders , so I am not going to post congratulations to someone who has brought a pup as it would be hypercritical of me to do so for many reasons ( which are my reasons ) Just because the poster may be a online friend does not change my opinion or viewpoint

 

 

That said I am not anti any poster who has brought a pup and I am not anti the pup , I am not going to be rude or offensive and I am as interested in their posts, stories, experiences and photos as I would be in anyone else's

 

 

No one here needs my permission or approval to do anything with their life let alone the very serious decision about where they source a new dog from

[Terrier]

But these people got money to obtain another dog/s to mistreat, just like the BYB.

 

I'd say it was worse than sourcing your pet from a BYB.

 

The old "if they can't sell 'em, they'll not breed 'em" still rings true. However, had Joe Bloggs bought these dogs as a pet, there'd be a reasonable chance that they'd stay in that home for the rest of their life and wouldn't be added to the rescue problem.

 

Essentially what you've done is to not only reward a breeder that takes no care to educate prospective owners, then *absolutely guaranteeing* that they end up in the rescue system, when there was a chance that there home could be a permanent one.

 

And on the point of education: it's been said already, but what I find particularly gutting is that long term members of this forum are not "Jo/Joe Public". If people have been members and posted on here for some time then they undoubtedly have come across the "animals needing homes" section, and surely have read loads of posts about people's rescue dogs and everything rescuing entails. If those people then still go out and buy a dog, and come back with a post with a headline that basically says "I know all the facts but I've bought a dog anyway and I don't care what you think" then that makes me really sad, because if the message doesn't get through to members here then what chance have we got educating Jo/Joe Public?

Education offers no guarantees.

 

There will still be some long term members of this forum who will "go out and buy a dog" instead of sourcing their next pet from rescue, but I'm pretty sure that without the message going out, there's be more people sourcing their dogs from somewhere unsuitable.

 

Which brings me to another point - there isn't just one message (although this forum is far, far better in this regard than some others I could mention). For example - I and others on this forum (on this very thread!) are not necessarily against the idea of sourcing from a *good* breeder.

 

Even after that, I'm sure we'd have difficulty in coming up with a consensus of what factors make a good dog breeder (If of course, you are of the opinion that such a thing exists).

 

In short, even if we could educate the whole of Jo/Joe Public, there would still be some who made poor decisions. There'd be less of them though as people become less naive, and the problems would be - I'm sure - more manageable.

[Terrier]

Edit - attempted to reword previous post.

 

But these people got money to obtain another dog/s to mistreat, just like the BYB.

 

I'd say it was worse than sourcing your pet from a BYB.

 

The old "if they can't sell 'em, they'll not breed 'em" still rings true. However, had Joe Bloggs bought these dogs as a pet, there'd be a reasonable chance that they'd stay in that home for the rest of their life and wouldn't be added to the rescue problem.

 

Essentially what you've done is to not only reward a breeder that takes no care to educate prospective owners, then *absolutely guaranteeing* that they end up in the rescue system, when there was a chance that there home could be a permanent one.

 

And on the point of education: it's been said already, but what I find particularly gutting is that long term members of this forum are not "Jo/Joe Public". If people have been members and posted on here for some time then they undoubtedly have come across the "animals needing homes" section, and surely have read loads of posts about people's rescue dogs and everything rescuing entails. If those people then still go out and buy a dog, and come back with a post with a headline that basically says "I know all the facts but I've bought a dog anyway and I don't care what you think" then that makes me really sad, because if the message doesn't get through to members here then what chance have we got educating Jo/Joe Public? <IMG style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: middle" border=0 alt=sad01_anim.gif src="style_emoticons/default/sad01_anim.gif" emoid="">

 

The message is getting across on here, but education offers no guarantees. I doubt whether any single (or multiple) solution exists.

 

There will still be some long term members of this forum who will "go out and buy a dog" instead of sourcing their next pet from rescue, but I'm pretty sure that without the message going out, there's be more people sourcing their dogs from somewhere unsuitable.

 

Which brings me to another point - there isn't just one message (although this forum is far, far better in this regard than some others I could mention). For example - I and others on this forum (on this very thread!) are not necessarily against the idea of sourcing from a *good* breeder. Even after that, I'm sure we'd have difficulty in coming up with a consensus of what factors make a good dog breeder (If of course, you are of the opinion that such a thing exists).

 

In short, even if we could educate the whole of Jo/Joe Public on the parts we agreed on, there would still be some who made poor decisions. That's one down side of human nature and our ability to make choices - we sometimes still do things even when we know it's wrong. What's good though, is that humans in general do respond, and as people become better informed, the problems would be - I'm sure - more manageable.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Terrier

[Happylittlegreensquirrel]

I understand and respect the fact that other people may/will have opinions different to mine, sometimes strongly so. However I would never attempt to put somebody on a bloody huge guilt trip, so much so that every time they look at a particular pet they are reminded that they are a wicked, selfish person for taking on that pet.

 

My first thought after I posted the original thread that caused this topic was "I knew I shouldn't have told people" but I am an honest person and it took a lot of guts for me to come out and say it. Some of your posts echoed my feelings, some were downright upsetting, some outlandish and a few were written with a lot of thought before commenting and were said with honesty but without malice and I respect that.

 

However, it has made me think twice about using the internet.

 

 

Holly came to me as Puppy from Ireland

 

A lot of people do not agree with taking dogs from Ireland or taking a dog you have never met and on Dogpages both subjects were debated numerous times with some very strong opinions for and against. I personally never felt wicked or selfish or guilt tripped in any way ( then or now ) as I am 100 % comfortable with my decision and my reasons for adopting Holly

 

if you are equally comfortable and this is 100 % the right decision for you nothing that I or anyone can say or not say would make any difference to how you view your new dog and nor should it

 

 

I also don't see why saying you have brought a dog from a breeder takes guts here ? the vast majority of members who have posted have been supportive or at least neutral in comments

 

only a hand full of people have said they don't agree or they would not do the same themselves and they are very much in the minority

[ReikiAnge]

I wouldn't take Tia to meet any new dog as she would not be able to cope, Glen came after long discussion with my friend and trainer who is also a behaviourist. Most rescues have set criteria re working hours/meeting existing dogs etc which I fully understand. Should in the future a dog/bitch come up that I thought would 'fit' and a rescue was prepared to be flexible then it may happen. Possibly when my older girls are gone (perish the thought ) I would also be more prepared to have a dog walker which I won't have now because of T-bag

 

Sandra, I know a lot of rescues do insist on you taking your existing dogs to meet a potential new one, but it's not impossible to adopt without doing that Max can be grumpy with other dogs and I don't think taking him to a busy kennel environment with lots of dogs barking, would lead to a successful introduction. I have however been able to adopt three new dogs, since we've had Max, without having to take him to meet anyone, so it can be done. I've introduced him to each new dog at home, rather than on neutral territory, as he feels most secure here, and we've not had any problems at all

[Gemstone]

Sandra, I know a lot of rescues do insist on you taking your existing dogs to meet a potential new one, but it's not impossible to adopt without doing that Max can be grumpy with other dogs and I don't think taking him to a busy kennel environment with lots of dogs barking, would lead to a successful introduction. I have however been able to adopt three new dogs, since we've had Max, without having to take him to meet anyone, so it can be done. I've introduced him to each new dog at home, rather than on neutral territory, as he feels most secure here, and we've not had any problems at all

 

Ange, when I was looking to rescue a Collie, all the Collie rescues were insisting that I would have to take my existing dogs to them for introductions.

[Happylittlegreensquirrel]

don't breeders ever ask to meet your existing dogs then ?

[Gemstone]

I don't know Sam. I have only bought one of my dogs from a breeder and at that point I only had Hollie who a was very laid back 15 year old The breeder asked about her but did not ask me to bring her along.

 

I did not take my dogs to meet Misty when I got her from rescue.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Gemstone

[ReikiAnge]

Ange, when I was looking to rescue a Collie, all the Collie rescues were insisting that I would have to take my existing dogs to them for introductions.

 

I did say I know a lot of rescues insist on you taking existing dogs

 

I was just sharing my experience, that we have been able to adopt three different dogs from three different rescues without taking Max to meet the dog. We did have home visits/references etc., follow-ups etc. and I still keep in touch with Sno's carers and obviously with M-M's rescue

[sanrossscot]

don't breeders ever ask to meet your existing dogs then ?

 

Apart from Glen, I got mine from people that knew me and my dogs from seeing us at obedience comps week after week. Glen's breeder came to do a house check on me and saw my other two then.

[Gemstone]

I did say I know a lot of rescues insist on you taking existing dogs

 

I was just sharing my experience, that we have been able to adopt three different dogs from three different rescues without taking Max to meet the dog. We did have home visits/references etc., follow-ups etc. and I still keep in touch with Sno's carers and obviously with M-M's rescue

 

I know

[merledogs]

Taking exising dogs to meet a dog doesn't necessarily mean taking them to busy kennels. I took my lot to meet Max and Timmy and both meetings were in fields where they could mingle. They were both being fostered so I met the fosterers with my other dogs to introduce them all. Even if a dog were in kennels it may be possible to arrange a meeting away from the kennels or at least away from the kennel block

Edited June 20, 2009 by merledogs

[sanrossscot]

I know that not all rescues insist on meetings and, like I said it's not the only reason (at the moment). I feel my working hours are not settled enough to give a new dog the time he/she would need and deserve to get. Hopefully that will change in the future and I will be able to give a rescue a new home.