Controlling Relationships

[jackin]

have printed this out as its so good and helpful to have to be able to offer advise.

It must be horrid thing for this to happen to anyone

[Guest Bilbo and Daniel]

Know exactly what you mean. My ex can charm the birds out of the trees until he gets what he wants. Then there is the outside/ inside split to the personality. People who didn't live next door didn't believe what he was like, because he was so nice to them. I lost a lot of people I thought were friends. He was never physically abusive, but he was/is a mind game expert.

 

Grey's mum...I think you must have been married to my EX!

 

Thank you all for sharing your experiences in this post. It is only recently I have come to realise I was in one of those relationships and I am so glad I am out. I am so much happier now and it is reassuring to hear I am not alone - I spent five years trying to keep the peace at home, feeling inadecuate and believing it was all my fault...

Caroline

[rascaljigandmossop]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences in this post. It is only recently I have come to realise I was in one of those relationships and I am so glad I am out. I am so much happier now and it is reassuring to hear I am not alone - I spent five years trying to keep the peace at home, feeling inadecuate and believing it was all my fault...

Caroline

 

I spent the last 2 years of my marriage trying to "keep the peace" , I became a referee in this house . I used to wish he would have an affair so that I would have a "legitimate" reason to leave him. He wasnt always like that I dont think , I put it down to a mid life crisis! I was always making excuses for him to the kids such as "he is tired" he is stressed" but I used to feel like one of the kids myself , I dont know why I tried to hold it together for so long , my biggest regret is that I stayed even after he spat in my daughters face ! I am deeply ashamed of that .Since we have split he still thinks he can control things , he wont have a discussion about the kids unlesss HE wants too , if he doesnt like whats being said he will walk off. He reckons that unreasonable behaviour is unacceptable grounds for our divorce , and that he wont answer solicitors letters if he doesnt like the contents ! and yet most people who know him think he is such a great bloke , he is very popular and well thought of.

To anyone in a controlling relationship , I would say "making the break is very scary , but to be able to relax in your own home with your own kids and not be making allowances for someone elses behaviour all the time is such a good feeling , it is not without problems , but I havent regretted it for a single second"

[bebe]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences in this post. It is only recently I have come to realise I was in one of those relationships and I am so glad I am out. I am so much happier now and it is reassuring to hear I am not alone - I spent five years trying to keep the peace at home, feeling inadecuate and believing it was all my fault...

Caroline

I spent the last 2 years of my marriage trying to "keep the peace" , I became a referee in this house . I used to wish he would have an affair so that I would have a "legitimate" reason to leave him. He wasnt always like that I dont think , I put it down to a mid life crisis! I was always making excuses for him to the kids such as "he is tired" he is stressed" but I used to feel like one of the kids myself , I dont know why I tried to hold it together for so long , my biggest regret is that I stayed even after he spat in my daughters face ! I am deeply ashamed of that .Since we have split he still thinks he can control things , he wont have a discussion about the kids unlesss HE wants too , if he doesnt like whats being said he will walk off. He reckons that unreasonable behaviour is unacceptable grounds for our divorce , and that he wont answer solicitors letters if he doesnt like the contents ! and yet most people who know him think he is such a great bloke , he is very popular and well thought of.

To anyone in a controlling relationship , I would say "making the break is very scary , but to be able to relax in your own home with your own kids and not be making allowances for someone elses behaviour all the time is such a good feeling , it is not without problems , but I havent regretted it for a single second"

 

 

OMG....I could have written this, about my H

 

He is doing the exact same thing with the Solicitors too, actually, he,s doing EVERYTHING you just posted

 

Perhaps he,s a bigamist too!! , his initial isnt M, is it??? It sure sounds like the same man to me!!

[safneo]

My ex was like so many of your ex's! He was the life and soul of the party. Everyone loved him thinking him a kind a gentle (if loud) man. He was a cockney so that was accepted (not meant to critisize them in any way). It was just an excuse. At first he treated me like a princess and I was bowled over, then after we got married he changed. He drank more and became more controlling. He played football and ran junior and adult teams and clubs. I was expected to go with him and help out. I would go and if I made a fuss about not being able to get dinner ready on a sunday he would say he didnt expect it. Then when we got home we would have an argument about why we didnt have sunday dinner!! I decided to leave him when after him coming home plastered, he decided to go back out, I would never argue with him normally for fear of his temper, but was more worried about him killing someone driving. I took his car keys and wouldnt give them back to him. He attacked me in front of his (then oblivious) kids. Took the keys from me leaving me bruised and terrified of his return. (I'd already had him arrested once for trying to strangle me in a rage). The next day I started looking for a house to rent. Even that went pear-shaped when he found out. He told me to walk out the door as I came in. With nothing!! I had a 5yr old daughter to think of so I came back and said I'd made a mistake. Then I planned it better.

I left a week later when he was at work. Though he came back and caught me moving out I had at least got my clothes and daughters stuff out. I moved into my new place with next to nothing. I sat/slept on the floor for 2wks until I was given a couple of chairs and a table by friends, and got paid so could buy a cheap bed. It was the most 'independent' and full-filled I've ever felt.

[rascaljigandmossop]

OMG....I could have written this, about my H

 

He is doing the exact same thing with the Solicitors too, actually, he,s doing EVERYTHING you just posted

 

Perhaps he,s a bigamist too!! , his initial isnt M, is it??? It sure sounds like the same man to me!!

 

Only just caught up with this Bebe ,his initial is P maybe its his long lost twin !! This is the man who claims that if I try to get money from him I will fail as he has no income and no assets ( read that as self employed with a dodgy accountant !) amazing how he has found himself on holiday in the Gambia this week isnt it !!!!

[BillyMalc]

I've been wanting to share something that a friend and I witnessed yesterday - I think it's related to the topic, but if it's inappropriate, please any of the mods feel free to move it.

We were out in the woods with our dogs, generally enjoying ourselves. We'd sat down on a bench to have a brew, with 2 of our 4 dogs tied up with us, when this westie came running up excitedly, and proceeded to trot round us and dogs to have a good sniff and say 'hello', despite the (I guess) mother of a family with 4 kids frantically calling him and running after him to catch him. He wasn't threatening and didn't cause any trouble really (apart from one of the dogs thinking that a leftover crumb of biscuit was threatened ), and we told her not to worry, our dogs were cool and he'd come with her once his curiosity was satisfied. She didn't say a word to us, but panicked after the westie. Then the husband (?) came closer and called, and the westie came away and trotted past him, at which he lashed out with the leather lead and hit the poor dog as hard as he could over his back We could not let this pass and let him know in no uncertain terms what we thought of the abuse, but he cast us a few evil looks and walked off, leaving the family stood there, looking all confused and all. Then the litte girl said (and it so shocked us) "oh, that was easy". We were about to get up to have a word with the mother about her husband's behaviour, when we saw them standing there together, casting embarrassed/shy (can't come up with the right description) looks and don't ask me how but both my friend and I had the distinct feeling that a) this wasn't a one off, and b) it struck us both as if this guy's behaviour wasn't limited to the poor dog. Made me feel really angry and sad at the same time.

Again, sorry if this isn't appropriate in this thread. It's been popping up in my head regularly since we saw this happening yesterday and, like I said, I wanted to share it. I asked my friend if she thought that my reaction had been OTT, or if there was anything else that we could/should've done, but she thought that any more of a provocation of this guy would likely result in him taking it out on the poor dog/family.

What do other people think?

I mean, I can't watch people or animals being abused without at least saying something. But would I cause even more trouble for the poor victims of these abusers if I did?

[annie b]

[Happylittlegreensquirrel]

just bumping this up as its well worth a read

[ykstar]

One day I'll learn to take advice. I think today is that day. No going back.

[merledogs]

One day I'll learn to take advice. I think today is that day. No going back.

Knowing is better (although more painful) than not knowing. You will get through this and come out the other side

[Ruthi (borrowadog)]

There is no doubt that you have to be ready to read this sort of stuff. But once you are there is, as you say, no going back. And a good thing too. Its three months since I read this thread originally - and didn't have the courage to post. But in those three months although I have made some painful admissions, I have also got myself back. Its been worth the pain to get here - thank you Jules for setting me on the right road.

 

Anyone who would like to bounce their thinking off a sympathetic, recently freed wall is welcome to pm me for a phone number or email address.

 

to all who would like to join the Previously Bullied Club! Just step this way.

 

 

Ruth (the born again confident one)

[Kats inc]

That's fantastic news Ruth ...a million of those to you.It's so hard to get out....so you can stop being so hard on yourself Miss Amberroos please...it often takes many many attempts to break free before you finally get there

 

More for you then:

 

Why do people seek to manipulate us? For reasons ranging from the meanest to the most benevolent:

 

They derive emotional satisfaction from others' negative reactions.

 

Some people, because they are so dissatisfied with themselves and their lives, try to create problems for us so we will feel bad, too. If they are able to make us unhappy or uncomfortable they can focus on our pain instead of their own and momentarily feel better.

 

Manipulating others gives them a feeling of power.

 

People who consider themselves weak and believe they lack power sometimes try to manufacture it by persuading people to do as they wish. When they are successful, they experience a temporary feeling of domination. Unfortunately for them and those with whom they associate, the sensation dissipates quickly, and they must continually reinforce it.

 

They believe they aren't important enough.

 

Some individuals believe they are so unimportant that others are unlikely to give them what they want simply for the asking. To make up for their lack of bargaining chips, they try to convince us we should feel guilty or ashamed if we do not do as they ask, thinking (often correctly) that our desire to avoid those painful feelings will be so great that we'll do what they want.

 

They believe certain tasks are beneath them.

 

Some profoundly misguided people tend to regard us more as servants than as equals. Because of the lowly status they've assigned us, they expect us to do tasks they're averse to doing themselves, whether because of their ignorance, reluctance, laziness, or an unwillingness to clean up after themselves.

 

They don't know how to do or get what they want.

 

Some people believe themselves incapable of achieving their goals directly, as mature adults do, so they feel they have no choice but to manipulate us so we will achieve their goals for them.

 

They are sure their manipulation will benefit those manipulated.

 

This idea is embraced by fanatics of every kind, who have deluded themselves into believing they know what's best or right for practically everyone. Since they are certain they are gifted with a special insight, they feel gratified if they can manipulate "less knowledgeable" people like us into taking the path they've chosen.

 

In fact, most would-be manipulators are not genuinely bad; they are just weak, self-centered, insensitive, inconsiderate, and misguided. They think of those they seek to manipulate as members of a lower order of creature, a less important form of life, whose needs and desires are also less important. To manipulators, other people are less "real" than they are, somewhat like a clever puppy or a beast of burden, which is to say, a nice enough creature, but one without a real existence of its own.

 

THE FORMS OF MANIPULATION

Manipulative techniques vary, but in general, manipulators try to get our emotions to work against us. They do this by saying or doing something they hope will induce in us guilt, shame, anger, fear, or some other uncomfortable emotion. They may imply, for instance, that our failure to do as they wish will bring about a major disaster. They may describe in minute detail the various kinds of unpleasantness that will occur if we neglect to take the action they suggest. They may insist certain things are our duty or responsibility, or they may appeal to us on the basis of morality, ethics, or anything else they think might persuade us to agree with them. Some will pull out every emotional stop and tell us of the horrible pain they'll experience if we "let them down". We may be told we'll feel better about ourselves, that we'll make the manipulator extremely happy, that he or she will love us forever, or any number of other essentially meaningless terms.

 

Manipulators' speech is frequently laced with phrases such as these:

 

"You should. . ." "You ought to . . ." "If I were you, I'd . . ." "It's for the best," "I only want what's best for you," "You'll thank me for this later," "What will people say?" "What will people think?"

 

They use these and many other phrases which imply we will suffer a censure or penalty of some kind if we don't meet the "obligation" they've chosen for us.

 

What element do all these techniques have in common? The manipulator offers us nothing we value in exchange for doing what he or she asks.

 

THE "BENEFITS" OF MANIPULATION

Since manipulators often seem to get what they want, it appears as though manipulation works for them and against those being manipulated. But in fact, no one involved in manipulative transactions gains any real benefit. Appearances to the contrary, manipulation is a game played only by victims. Whether we manipulate or are manipulated, we lose. And interestingly, no matter which end of the manipulative spectrum we're on, we experience the same negative feelings, although not for the same reasons:

 

Powerlessness: Manipulators, because they feel powerless, try to create power for themselves by persuading others to do things for them. If we are manipulated we feel powerless, too, because we have allowed the manipulator to dictate our course of action.

 

Inadequacy: Manipulators believe they lack certain characteristics and skills possessed by most others, so they try to gain access to these qualities by "using" those they believe have them. If we are manipulated we feel inadequate, too, because we think if only we were smarter or quicker, we could have escaped or outwitted the manipulator.

 

Victimization: Manipulators feel victimized because they believe life has dealt unfairly with them and given them far less than they deserve. Those of us on the receiving end of their manipulation also feel victimized, because we feel we must do as the manipulator asks, even though we don't want to.

 

Anger and frustration: Manipulators often feel irritated and thwarted because those whom they try to manipulate either fail to do what they ask or do it differently than they wish. Those whom they manipulate experience the same feelings as they resentfully do what the manipulator wants them to do.

 

As you can see, when manipulation takes place no one wins. If we allow ourselves to be manipulated, we sacrifice our right to self-determination, our self-esteem, our time, money, or energy and, often, our principles. Letting others control us, however briefly, makes us undervalue and compromise ourselves.

 

If we manipulate others, we are diminished by our maneuvering. We surrender our self-respect, resourcefulness, and self-reliance when we try to use others to achieve our goals. Worse still, if we are successful, we remain childish, emotionally immature, and dependent throughout life.

 

AVOIDING MANIPULATION

So what are we to do? Unless we have knowingly obligated ourselves, when we're asked to do something that a) we don't want to do, b) isn't our obligation, and c) isn't a genuine need, we can refuse with a clear conscience. We don't have to feel guilty. We don't have to get caught up in elaborate excuses or contrived explanations. When manipulators ask for our help, we just have to say, "No".

 

This will no doubt shock those who are accustomed to our acquiescence, and it will be difficult for us at first if we are in the habit of giving in to unreasonable people. But saying, "No", is an acquired ability, and we will discover that the more we use it, the more proficient we become.

 

It's fine to exchange favors with people, of course, and it is commendable to voluntarily help others who are literally unable to help themselves. But when people try to create a feeling of obligation in us or try to persuade us to do something we dislike just to please them, beware: no matter how much they emphasize that doing what they want will benefit us, it's rarely our welfare with which they're concerned.

 

Important Ideas to Consider

• My time and energy are as valuable as those of anyone else.

 

• My "not wanting to" is at least as important as the other person's "wanting me to".

 

• I definitely do not have to do everything I am asked to do.

 

• I don't have to provide an excuse for not wanting to do something.

 

• Only people who want to manipulate me insist that I should.

 

• If I don't say "No", my silence can be taken as a "Yes".

 

• Cooperation is a good alternative to manipulation.

 

• It is easier to avoid being manipulated if I am not a manipulator myself.

 

• My wants, needs, and happiness are as important as anyone's.

 

• I have the right to say "No" to doing things I dislike or find objectionable or inconvenient.

 

• I am not stubborn or mean just because I don't want to do what others ask.

 

Questions to Ask Yourself

• Do I often feel I've been taken advantage of?

 

• Do I attempt to manipulate others? If I do, what are my reasons?

 

• Do I think I would be able to avoid a lot of unpleasant tasks if I were smarter?

 

• Can people usually talk me into doing things I don't want to do? If they can, why do I let them?

 

• If I allow people to manipulate me, what manipulative approach seems to work best with me? What can I do to change this?

 

• Do I feel guilty when I don't do what people ask of me?

 

• Do I frequently feel uncomfortable, resentful, and angry? Do I feel that way more around some people than around others?

 

An Experiment

When people attempt to manipulate you, tell them exactly how you feel about the matter in a positive, but firm manner. To prepare yourself for doing this, practice saying the phrases "No, thanks", "Thanks, I'd rather not", "Sorry, but I've made other plans", "No, I don't want to", "Because I don't want to", and "I don't have to give you a reason", until you can say them with sincerity and conviction. Your skill will improve quickly with experience.

 

 

 

New article on is my abusive partner changing?

 

Highlighted in red to seperate more easily

 

HOW TO TELL AN ABUSER IS CHANGING (for “he†also read “she†if the abuser is female)

They acknowledge and accept responsibility for what they have done, fully acknowledge that they used abuse to control you and that it was wrong, and they aren't blaming you, other people, their stress, their job, or any other outside circumstances for their choices. They are no longer denying it, making light of it, or making excuses for it. They acknowledges that they chose to behave this way instead of saying that other people made them do it, or that they can't control themselves. They fully understand and acknowledge that what they did was wrong. They admit lies, admit what they have done and no longer make up stories to make themselves look better. They are no longer trying to hide their behaviour from others. They understand that recovery from abusiveness takes a long time and they will have to work at it for a long, long time.

 

They understand what their behaviour has cost you. They understand fully that you and your children have been hurt by what they have done, and the ways in which you've been hurt. They will talk about it with you in depth about how you feel, your fear, your hurt, your anger, your rights, your lack of trust for them and understand fully that it is their behavior that has caused it. When you express anger at them because of their behaviour, they listen instead of getting angry and trying to shout you down, threatening you or trying to convince you that something's wrong with you for feeling that way. They are is sorry for what they have done, and work hard to overcome the damage done and is actively making up for it by giving you back what is rightfully yours - money, rights, freedoms, choices, etc.. They understand that it will take their victims a long time to recover from what they've done to them.

 

They are proving to you that they understand that you're a human being with rights and is no longer trying to take them away from you. No more double standards. They understand that you're an equal human being, and they are not superior to you. They are pulling their weight. They are respecting your opinions, even the ones which disagree with their own. They are accepting your right to be angry for what was done, and you can talk about their abuse with them. They are respecting your right to independence and your right to freedom. They stop interfering in your friendships and family relationships and you are able to re-establish and repair these, and make new friends. They stop monitoring your movements, demanding to know where you are and who's there. They stop expecting sex on demand. They are taking into account how you're affected by their behaviour and choices. They have stopped drinking to excess or taking drugs. They have stopped doing those things that are inappropriate for a committed relationship. Affairs, keeping all the control over the money, etc.. They are fair with money, allowing you to have your assets in your name, a job if you want, etc.. They take responsibility for what they do and how it affects you and the children. They are no longer treating you like a servant, but acknowledges the contributions you made to the relationship.

They are no longer blocking communication, they listen and respect what you have to say. They will discuss with you the controlling behaviours and attitudes they have had. They listen to you, even when you're angry instead of trying to bully you or threaten you into shutting up. You are able to express yourself, speak freely and feel safe doing so. They listen to you without interrupting and allow your thoughts even if they don't agree. When you discuss their behaviours that hurt you and the children, they take them seriously and stop them. You can speak and act freely without them retaliating. They are communicating without manipulation, which was their usual tactic to block you. If they try to control you, you can point it out to them and they will stop. Accepts feedback, criticism.

They stop cutting you down and start focusing on what's good, your strength and your abilities. They are not putting you down, trying to convince you your perception is off, that you're crazy, that you're stupid, etc.. They are respectful and doesn't guilt you into things or throw fits. They do not pressure you into things or out of things. They do not intimidate you, they do not threaten you. They have stopped undermining you, and support you instead. They are is making a big effort to be non abusive.

 

HOW TO TELL HE'S NOT CHANGING (for "he" read "she" if appropriate)

 

He says "I can't change unless you do." Which means that he's trying to get you to agree to give up your rights and freedoms in exchange for him not abusing you. Also stated as "I've changed, but you aren't changing"; "I'm not the only one who needs help".

He tries to get sympathy from you, family members, and friends. He is still lying to you, the children, your family or other people about what he's done. He continues to attempt to cover up what he's done to you and the children. He won't acknowledge that it was wrong. He doesn't seem sorry that he did it, he only seems sorry that he has suffered some consequences for it.

He refuses to let the subject of his abuse come up or gets angry when it does. He won't discuss his controlling behaviors and attitudes. He still tries to deny it, minimize it, excuse it, or justify it. Defends his behaviors. He insists you just get past it.

He plays victim. He says "How could you do this to me.?" He still whines and blames you for all the problems. *He is overly charming, always trying to remind you of all the good times you had together and ignore the bad. He tries to buy you back with romantic gifts, dinners, flowers. All while trying to convince you that you need to stay together to work it out.

He will not get help or He says he'll get counseling or other help, but never does. Or he does and tries to convince you that he's cured and you need to take him back now. "Now that I'm in this program, you have to be more understanding." Or "I'm learning a lot from this program". If a man is pressuring you this way, then as soon as he gets back in, he will most likely drop the program. This is why it's so critical, if you're considering taking him back, to watch his behaviors, to talk in depth, and to give it time. Sometimes, instead of counseling they will suddenly claim to have found God; he goes to church a few times.

He cries and begs, they particularly like to do this in a public situation so that you are embarrassed and appear to be "cold hearted".

He does things to try to sabotage your efforts to make it on your own.

He harasses or stalks you. If you ask him for space or time, he refuses to allow you to have any and continues to make contact in any way he can. Harassment by phone calls, threats, legal frustrations, showing up at work, hanging around family.

He continues to restrict your rights. He still behaves as if he's superior. You aren't able to express yourself and speak freely. He still demands constant attention, won't allow you to take care of your own needs. He still picks at you and criticizes you, and ignores your strengths and contributions to the relationship. He doesn't support your independence, still refuses to acknowledge that you have rights. He hangs on to double standards. He is still denying you your fair share of the marital assets, money. He puts his wants and needs above yours.

He doesn't recognize the damage he's done. He gets angry with you over the consequences you've suffered over his abuse. He's mad or seems confused as to why you fear him, don't trust him, are hurt, and angry. He tries to get out of the consequences by trying to convince you that something's wrong with you for allowing him to have any consequences. He behaves as if he's above reproach. He claims that he would never hurt you, despite that he's done many things to hurt you. He's mad that you left, instead of recognizing your right to have done so. He still acts like you owe him. He's impatient or critical with you for not forgiving him immediately, for not being satisfied with the changes he may have already made, especially if he hasn't made the changes you requested, or hasn't changed but claims he has.

He's only concerned with how hard the situation is for him, and no one else. He feels sorry for himself. He doesn't show appropriate concern for how you and the children feel about what he's done. Abuse does more than just hurt, it is damaging, and if he doesn't show appropriate concern for the damage he's done, then he hasn't changed.

He still does things that are inappropriate for an intimate relationship. Cheating, not including you in family decisions, hoarding all the marital assets - money, property, cars, stocks, bonds, etc. and won't allow you to have access to them.

He says he can only change if you help him, he wants emotional support and forgiveness, and give up your break from him.

He says I'm changing but you can see that he's not. He gets angry with you for not realizing how much he's changed. He gets angry for not trusting that he's changed for good. Abusive men often say I'm sorry then get mad if you don't immediately forget what they did, he thinks his sorry resolves the matter and it should be dropped and you should just move forward.

He pressures you into taking him back because he "can't wait forever".

He trashes your reputation when talking to the children.

He threatens and tries to intimidate you. The next step of behavior is generally one of threats and attempts to intimidate. This will often include threats to attack family and friends, threats to kill you or "put out a contract on you." Threats that he will take the children away or get custody of them himself, or threats to kill himself.

[homely]

I am fortunate enough to have never been in a relationship

with a controlling man.

 

I have been with my husband for 17 years and am very

happy. Yes, we have ups and downs but never really argue.

Steve says I bottle things up and then go off on a rant

ocassionally.

 

Neither my husbands mum and dad or my mum and dad

are in violent relationships either. They are in their late 70's

now and have been married for 50 years or more.

 

I personally can't understand woman who stay in these kind

of relationships but I suppose I can't comment as I haven't

been there.

[Kats inc]

I personally can't understand woman who stay in these kind

of relationships but I suppose I can't comment as I haven't

been there.

 

Sorry but that is exactly the kind of negative comment that really doesn't help women.They stay because in the main they have very little choice.If they try to leave they are threatened with whatever causes them most distress,in my case for example it was the following:

• my parents being killed.
  
• me being killed.
  
• Me being accused of sexually abusing his children therefore losing my job.
  
• Drugs being planted in my house therefore again losing my job.
  
• Squatters moving into my house so I lost my home.
  
• My animals being harmed.In fact one cat almost got stabbed and one cat was thrown against the wall.
  

Would you take the risk? Knowing he was capable of actually doing these things? I'm an assertive professional woman and quite frankly I was scared sh*tless.

Perhaps you'd like to rethink your comment and take the responsibility of choice away from the woman because really and honestly women in these situations have so very little choice