Wiccaweys?

[Ian]

I was saddened to read that Wiccaweys appears to have had their dogs seized in an RSPCA raid recently.

 

Obviously this board has donated to them via auctions in the past. From what I read on line, health issues may have had an impact on them recently and yet, whilst I wouldn't keep dogs in cages all day myself, the two photos I've seen do not look as bad as I was expecting given an RSPCA raid had taken place.

 

To be fair one person had made some less than flattering comments to me in the past, but given the fall outs that seem to go on in rescue so often I was inclined to keep an open mind.

 

Having, over the years, seen photos of children in orphanges in Romania and the like, animals on their streets etc I find it hard to believe conditions out there would have been better than this as seems to be claimed.

 

Has anyone actually been there recently and, if so, have things really gone so wrong in recent times, or is there something more to the story and pictures than has so far emerged?

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=468119909925205&set=a.468118853258644.1073741839.185684438168755&type=3&theater

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=468119809925215&set=a.468118853258644.1073741839.185684438168755&type=3&theater

 

 

[smirnoff]

I've been there very recently. The dogs are in crates in a barn but the crates are huge - much bigger than the space a dog has in the average boarding kennel. The kennels are not full height so the dogs can't jump up on their back legs (which is a good thing because it's not natural for dogs to jump up like that - they do it if they're over-excited) bit Wiccaweys had decided a short while ago to refit the barn with full height crates and they are waiting for delivery. The dogs are let out to run around the barn together and socialise with other dogs whenever possible. There are large runs in the gardens so the dogs can run around and play in the fresh air whenever the weather is good enough.

 

As I understand the situation, the dogs were not "seized" by the RSPCA (who have inspected on several occasions and been satisfied). As soon as the RSPCA arrived - without warning as they do when they are asked to investigate a case like this - Wiccaweys called their vets who came to support them. After a full inspection of the place, the RSPCA offered to take the dogs away and pay for their boarding until the refit is done. In the meantime Wiccaweys are continuing to rehome dogs and the RSPCA are happy for this to go ahead.

 

There have been health issues for both Sarah and Paul and they've struggled but they have volunteers going in to help out so the dogs aren't suffering. They are NOT kept in small crates all day as the Facebook campaign implies. On legal advice, Wiccaweys have not responded to the posts on Facebook and they are considering what action, if any, is appropriate. I haven't got involved in the things said on Facebook. I never do. I believe what I see with my own eyes and when I went I saw happy, healthy dogs.

 

Please don't believe all you read.

[Yantan]

 

Please don't believe all you read.

 

 

I don't.

[Ian]

No, me neither sadly, hence the reason for the question.

 

I haven't actually read the FB pages, only seen links to the two photos and press reports on other forums.

 

Reading your reply I would perhaps be inclined to wonder why, given an apparently reasonable explanation for low height crates, they'd then decide to do the opposite and why the RSPCA would make such an offer unless they had at least some concerns at the moment but nevertheless a temporary struggle due to ill health is to my mind an unfortunate and different thing to someone being persistently / willfully neglectful

 

I wouldn't have described the cages in the photo as appearing huge, but nor did they strike me as small as some are portraying, certainly unlikely to be worse than Romanian conditions as is suggested and I also thought the dogs looked reasonably content.

[smirnoff]

I understand that the move to full size crates is that they're easier for cleaning etc.

 

I went into the barn where the dogs were kept and met the dog who was in the photots. The crates have the dogs big plastic beds at one end and at least twice as much again in front of that. And the dogs are let out to play in the barn or in the runs whenever possible. The dogs are certainly not cramped. The dog in the photos walks around the barn and then chooses to go back to his crate because he likes being in there. The door is open but he chooses his crate. It's certainly nicer than the pallets I hear he was sleeping on in Romania.

 

I understand that the RSPCA concern was on how they would cope during the refit, looking after the dogs and installing the new crates.

 

I've only heard Wiccaweys side of things and what I've seen supports that. I certainly don't believe that either of them are capable of persistent/willful neglect.

[Ian]

I'd imagine full sized could indeed be easier to clean - as you can easily get into them, unlike a lower crate - but (rightly or wrongly) I'd always assumed that the only reason anyone has full height kennels is for that access reason rather than that there is any serious benefit to the dogs.

 

I agree that they don't look cramped to me, despite what some are seemingly suggesting, unlike you it isn't clear to me whether any of those people have actually even been there.

 

Your comment on the RSPCA concern also sounds a plausible / likely explanation to me.

 

The subject has obviously appeared on several forums & what I find a little sad is that some of those who I can clearly recall previously posting as having sent dogs there haven't voiced any support at all (nor suggested that they had found any need to withdraw support)

 

Given the grim conditions we are persistently told about in Romania when people want to ship dogs here I'm inclined to wonder about the motives behind this "campaign" rather than merely believe it on face value I'm afraid.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Ian

[Laurel n Hardy]

I cant say I have seen pictures on facebook or anywhere else, as I am not as active in rescue as I once was, but seeing as how these things can be open to abuse, go of tangent, and sometimes become a battleground for all sorts of greivances wouldnt it be best to lock this thread before anything regrettable is said.

[Loo]

Gosh that's harsh. I don't post often but am an avid reader and really thought that this was a friendly sort of forum. Even tho everyone may not agree with everyone else I've never noticed any 'trolls' around. If locking threads has to be resorted to then perhaps I'm very much mistaken. I do hope not.

[blackmagic]

I don't see any merit in speculating about what is second hand information which may or may not be correct.

 

That has been done on other forums. Why repeat it here?

 

The RSPCA say this is a current investigation so I think we should leave it to them.

 

 

[sanrossscot]

We pretty much decided not to discuss this as we have forum members on different side of the arguement. I think you can see that from the lack of reponses to the original post.

 

I do not think that further discussion will help either way.

[smirnoff]

I quite agree. Let the RSPCA put this to bed either way once and for all.

[Ian]

We pretty much decided not to discuss this as we have forum members on different side of the arguement. I think you can see that from the lack of reponses to the original post.

 

I do not think that further discussion will help either way.

 

"We", being / representing who?

 

To my mind this forum hosted & supported Wiccaweys - in the days when it actually did more in terms of rescue / animal welfare than seems apparent today - and it's therefore one place that I would expect to see them supported, assuming of course that support remains warranted.

 

Silence from both the rescue and forum would be more likely imply to me that it is not or there is something to hide. Nobody said anything about speculation, opening post asked if anyone had actually been there recently!

Edited May 21, 2013 by Ian

[sanrossscot]

'we' referred to the general members, no formal decision was made. There have been various posts during the Mays chat thread that you could look at if you like.

[smirnoff]

Discussing it here won't serve any purpose. As I said, I've been there recently and I looked around and all I saw was happy, healthy dogs and plenty of exercise areas.

 

I don't know in detail what the allegations are. I know that some (a lot as I understand it) are being made by people who have never been to Wiccaweys. (People who have posted inflammatory comments on other forums where I moderated and had to delete every post as soon as they made it to avoid name-calling, slanging matches and potential libel suits.)

 

I have fostered, homechecked and adopted from Wiccaweys and have always had a lot more support and information from them than any rescue I've helped with.

 

But if the RSPCA are involved, all we can do is wait for them to come to their conclusions. In the meantime, anyone who has had a positive experience of Wiccaweys can write to the Northampton RSPCA to tell them about it because first hand accounts are taken into account.

[snow]

Ian I'm disappointed that you think silence from a forum means anything at all - yes Refuge supported Wiccaweys along with dozens of other rescues over the years, we may again in the future or we may not who knows only time will tell.