celeste Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 The inevitable happened today, one of the Papillons that live in the village got attacked by Daisy . The house the dogs live in is on the way to one of our walks, and has no gate, the two Pap's that live there run out barking and snarling at any dog who walks past and have done this to me twice before, you never know if the dogs are there or not until it's too late and they are out and going for you, despite having crossed the road to keep away from the house just in case, the dog saw us and went for us, despite the owner yelling at it . Hopefully it'll be ok, Daisy had it on it's back but had a hold of it's back leg. I advised the woman to take the dog to the vet, apologised but said the dog had ran at us, she said " I know, need to get a gate put on " what a twonk. I'm torn between feeling bad about it and angry, she knows her dogs do this, people should be able to walk down the pavement without being menaced by out of control dogs ffs, my dogs were all on leash of course. Just wonder now if she'll come to the door to ask for money for vet fee's, and should I pay ? , I'd possibly pay some, but certainly not all as I feel she was to blame, what do fugee's think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greygal Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 Got to feel sorry for the little dog, but I certainly wouldn't offer to pay. It was totally the owners fault in my opinion and lots of dogs would have reacted like your Daisy being run at by (probably) yappy little dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fee Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 I don't see how it was your fault (or Daisy's) in any way. You were walking down the street with your dog in a lead and this dog was running loose and attacked Daisy I'd usually not quibble about taking responsibility for vet bills if my dogs hurt another animal, but in this case the owner knew there was a problem and was too lazy or stupid to do anything about it so I really don't see why you should pay anything. I hope the little dog is OK though, it's not his fault either that he has an idiot owner who doesn't keep him safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted June 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 Thanks guys Thats how I feel too, hopefully the dog will be ok, I didn't see any blood but Pap bones are so tiny she may have a fracture, I just can't understand why she allows them to do this, she has a secure back garden, even if she tethered the dog if she needed it to be in the front garden, would be better than allowing it to run out at passers by. It was also very lucky it didn't get run over running across the road, it's not a wide or fast road by any means, but could so easily have happened. The woman's lived in that house for about 3 years, and in all that time has never got a gate put on. There was really no way to avoid the wee thing either, it just raced straight out and launched itself straight at my dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobean Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 Very annoying that the woman continues to let her dogs do that. I hope she has learned a lesson and this stops now. It's not fair on passers by and I hope this doesn't impact on Daisy's behaviour now when you take her along there. I wouldn't pay the bill either and hope the Pap's leg is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 (edited) Exactly the same thing happened to Az a few weeks ago, only with a (very small) Shi Tzu and he picked her up (she was hanging from his throat!) and shook her like she was a rabbit, it was pure luck he didn't break her neck. I wouldnt' have paid a vet bill, though of course I was concerned for the little dog. I don't see how there can be any liability to you if your on-lead dog is attacked on public land, even if the attacker is a lunatic tiny dog. There wouldn't be if it were a bigger dog, after all. Owner of Az's attacker was terrified by the experience and has now invested in a nice new set of very tightly fitted gates to keep her dog safe. Let's hope your Papillon owner is scared enough to learn the same lesson! Edited June 12, 2010 by cycas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mop Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 Daisy was under control, it was her dogs that weren't, she is responsible for any vet bills including your if you have any. Telling owners of out of control dogs that they are responsible for any vet bills including mine as my dogs are on the lead is one way of getting the owners to get their dogs. It is always the dog that suffers not the owners, I feel so sorry for dogs like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivea Posted June 12, 2010 Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 I certainly wouldn't pay anything. Daisy acted in self defence. If it were you, would you have waited 3 years to fix your gate, knowing that your dogs rushed out and harrassed any dog walking past, minding their own business. Would you feel that you as the owner of those dogs was responsible - yes you would be, so it is not Daisy's, nor your, fault. Hopefully the owner, if not the dog, has learnt her lesson. It's awful to think that your dog has hurt another but you have to consider the circumstances as to how it happened - not Daisy's fault!! Hope she's ok, no doubt didn't enjoy the experience either! I certainly wouldn't pay anything. Daisy acted in self defence. If it were you, would you have waited 3 years to fix your gate, knowing that your dogs rushed out and harrassed any dog walking past, minding their own business. Would you feel that you as the owner of those dogs was responsible - yes you would be, so it is not Daisy's, nor your, fault. Hopefully the owner, if not the dog, has learnt her lesson. It's awful to think that your dog has hurt another but you have to consider the circumstances as to how it happened - not Daisy's fault!! Hope she's ok, no doubt didn't enjoy the experience either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted June 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2010 The more I think about it the better I feel that we weren't in the wrong, it's just the size thing I suppose, you always feel the bigger dog is to blame, and especially so with Daisy being a Staffie, you just automatically think you'll end up taking the rap. Hopefully this will have given the owner enough of a fright to get gates put up. Thanks again for the support , I sure needed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merledogs Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 I agree with others, by no stretch of the imagination was this anyone else's fault other than the paps' owner. Do you have a dog warden? Might be worth having a word with them about this woman's dogs being a menace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddyboy Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 definitely do not pay anything, in fact if she approaches you for money tell her you will ask her for the behaviourist fees if you have to get Daisy to one after she was attacked.... because that is what it was! We have a yappy JR on the road walk -generally it just rushes to the boudary of their garden barking hysterically which means China bounces around - and of course after it had done it a few times it got to the stage where China looks for it as we approach the house. Normally the boys just ignore it but a while ago it did not stop at the boundary and launched at us - being very sneaky and keeping to just outside the length of the leads. This time the boys were interested because as far as they were concerned it was attacking our pack. Managed to pull them all away (they were not going for it as in attack but were moving forward to get between me and it) but I thought then "if it does it again I will simply not pull them away - I know they will not bite it but they will hopefully put a fright into it". Well, it did it again and I let them move a couple of feet towards it - so while it was used to just a boxer bouncing around on the end of a lead out of reach it was suddenly surrounded by her and her 2 big brothers (and the Cav) - they were actually wagging their tails but she did not know that - funnily enough she has gone back to staying just inside her boundary and barking now, and we have gone back to just China looking and taking any notice of her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 Siiighh, same here but with a slight difference. We've got a dog on our park, a lurcher called Patchy. Patchy is very friendly and playful, but has got no manners. His owner is one of the "he only wants to play" brigade, and has always been confident that Patchy would outrun any dog anyway. No consideration for the other dogs whatsoever. We've been lucky so far that Sparky has really taken to him, but Kiera has been mightily annoyed by the bugger, who races up and continues to do zoomies round them, until one gives chase. Last week Kiera did, then buggered off and found a stick to play with - by herself. Patchy made a big mistake and raced over to do more zoomies, and came VERY close to the stick. So Kiera saw him off in no uncertain terms - and caught his skin on his side. Resulted in a nick, which the owner didn't even notice (I didn't see her catch him, and Patchy seemed also oblivious to it, but there was no other dog around). Owner comes on the park the next day, with Patchy on a lead and a 'bucket' on his head, nods at Kiera and says "that's cost me 6 stitches and £200!" :ohmy: I was too stumped to say anything, and there were a couple more people of the same "brigade" about, so I just left. I've since heard from another dog walker that, apparently, he's not out to get any money out of me, but he's pissed off that I didn't apologise. To me apologising means a confession of being in the wrong, and I can't see how we were: yes, Kiera was off lead at the time, but she had gone away to play by herself, and Patchy bugged her. Plus the bloke has seen how Kiera reacts to him, and still just lets Patch off lead as soon as he gets to the park - and I don't always see them on time. I'm quite worried now, as this morning Kiera raced straight over to another dog she doesn't particularly like: little scruffy, adorable poodle cross, and "rraahraahrraad" at him with her hackles up. Dog was not bothered at all, I called Kiera, she came back, and put her on lead. Sparks was very interested but in a friendly way, so allowed him to go and investigate (with owner's permission) and they actually played nicely! Meanwhile Kiera was content to sit with me and get fed treats for good behaviour. All ended well on that note, but I'm now worried that Kiera's stepped up her expression of dislikes towards other dogs because of the "Patchy incident" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted June 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 Do you have a dog warden? Might be worth having a word with them about this woman's dogs being a menace. We do have a warden and I was wondering if it might be worth getting in touch with them, I'll wait and see if the owner gets gates put on, if she does, problem solved, if not then I'll have to do something, the house is on the way to 2 of the main walks and the post box, I really can't avoid it, my other option is to muzzle Daisy of course . I'm quite worried now, as this morning Kiera raced straight over to another dog she doesn't particularly like: little scruffy, adorable poodle cross, and "rraahraahrraad" at him with her hackles up. Dog was not bothered at all, I called Kiera, she came back, and put her on lead. Sparks was very interested but in a friendly way, so allowed him to go and investigate (with owner's permission) and they actually played nicely! Meanwhile Kiera was content to sit with me and get fed treats for good behaviour. All ended well on that note, but I'm now worried that Kiera's stepped up her expression of dislikes towards other dogs because of the "Patchy incident" Thats how it started with Daisy, she used to be great with other dogs then had one to many run in's, she gradually got worse and worse and the annoying thing is everytime I think I'm getting somewhere with her, along comes an incident like this to put us back to square one, she just doesn't trust other dogs not to go for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 (edited) Thats how it started with Daisy, she used to be great with other dogs then had one to many run in's, she gradually got worse and worse and the annoying thing is everytime I think I'm getting somewhere with her, along comes an incident like this to put us back to square one, she just doesn't trust other dogs not to go for her. So incredibly annoying, isn't it! Kiera used to be the life and soul of the party, and I will have to admit to once having been part of the "only wants to play" brigade too As people, with not so playful dogs, told me that it wasn't about Kiera, but their dogs who did not want to play with her, I learned to be more considerate. When other people now allow their dogs to run up to mine and they do not get a warm reception from the hooligans, I politely ask people to keep their dogs away, and hope that they will learn too. Some people just don't care tho, or think that they know better. I'm sure we already have a reputation of being unfriendly - we might be, to impolite dogs and their owners! For some reason Kiera has "gone off" playing with other dogs; she's turning into a right old grump! Trouble is, I took Sparks on as having problems with other dogs as well as people. Turns out that he actually is quite friendly with other dogs, albeit quite clumsy and socially not very skilled (bless him! ). He takes a lot of guidance of Kiera tho, so if he has halfway decided that a dog is friendly, and Kiera starts protesting loudly from the end of her lead, then all of a sudden the other dog is a potential threat! Siiigh!! We will be going on a "social skills" course in August, very much looking forward to that! Edited June 13, 2010 by BillyMalc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted June 13, 2010 Report Share Posted June 13, 2010 Billy, sorry, but I don't think that's the same at all. A dog attacked by an unsupervised dog while onlead : liability is very clearly with the owner of the attacker, who needs to fence their land properly. There is almost nothing the attacked dog and his owner can do, and the attacker clearly has a pretty major problem if it's going full on at a much larger dog with a human standing right next to her, rather than just barking from a distance. Two dogs both offlead in a park, one being a bit of a nuisance, the other being a bit of a grouch, bad luck and a dog with thin skin - that's just one of those things that happen sometimes, surely? Not entirely Keira's fault, I agree, but not sure it's entirely Patchy's fault either - if the timing was such that there wasn't time for you to get Keira back to your side and under close control when you saw Patchy appear, then there perhaps wasn't time for Patchy's owner to get his dog out of the situation either? I'm not sure I would have apologised in those circumstances, but I would have explained the situation as I saw it and expressed my concern for the other dog that was hurt, because I think that helps everyone understand what's going on. I've been on both sides of the fence there : on one occasion, Mollydog was hurt by a pair of collies that were rushing past her : she was just standing there, but one of them misdirected a nip that wouldn't even have hit skin on the dog she was aiming at, and gave poor Molls a nasty tear. The owner didn't express any concern, she just walked on - and I felt a bit miffed that she seemed not to care my dog had been injured, even though I didn't feel it was a 'blame' situation, as my dog was offlead too, and I'm pretty sure no harm was really meant. But I've also got Az, who can be a grumpy old git, so I do know what you mean about boingy young dogs that come bothering round and just won't take any notice of his FOAD signals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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