Racism Question.

[ranirottie]

My grandson Alfie is 10 and one of his best friends is called Ahmish (sp) and comes from Pakistan. They are regular visitors to each others houses and are part of a large group of kids that play together. One of the girls is called Hilda and comes from Sweden and is also part of the close knit group of friends. The other day my grandson was told off for describing Ahmish as a Paki.This was not said nastily but in a conversation with another boys mum. Now it is deemed OK to call Hilda a Swede from Sweden,its ok to call a Polish person a Pole, Its ok to call a British Person a Brit etc etc so why is it racist to call a Pakistani person a shortened version of their race? I am very annoyed that Alfie was told off and his mother was phoned to say that Alfie was being racist. Ahmish wasn't offended and neither was his mum when she was contacted but several other (mostly white) said that they thought it was offensive and racist. What on earth is going on!! x

[ReikiAnge]

"Paki" is often used as a derogatory and racist word though, whereas Brit, Swede etc. aren't seen in the same way.

 

I hate the word, probably because I've heard so many people use it in a less than pleasant way. I'd use the word Pakistani or Asian if I needed to use one.

 

I understand your grandson didn't intend to use the word in a negative way, but lots of people do sadly Tis good that he didn't upset Ahmish or his mum, but I'd explain to my child/grandchild that lots of people don't use it in such an innocent way (if it were me).

[Helly]

Interestingly enough, the shortened version of a Pakistani is Pak and not Paki. Should your grandson choose to call him a Pak he will not be using a word that is now associated with racism. As explained to me by a very nice Pak from Islamabad

[owl]

Personally I find Brit insulting. It is often used in a derogatory way.

[blackmagic]

A cooleagues mother was on a bus when a man, who was getting off the bus, asked the Pakistani bus driver for directions to where he was going. The bus driver's instructions started with ' walk down past the Paki shop.'

 

Incidently, I absolutely hate the use of 'Brit'. I, personally, find that a very derogatory word.

[ReikiAnge]

A cooleagues mother was on a bus when a man, who was getting off the bus, asked the Pakistani bus driver for directions to where he was going. The bus driver's instructions started with ' walk down past the Paki shop.'

 

Yes but there are a whole lot of people that use the word in a racist, horrible way.

 

Incidently, I absolutely hate the use of 'Brit'. I, personally, find that a very derogatory word.

 

Each to their own I guess then. It doesn't bother me at all and I've never heard someone use the word in a derogatory way/way that's offended me whereas I've heard the word "Paki" used many times in a way that makes me cringe.

[ranirottie]

I see your point Ange but because some people use it in a derogatory way it shouldn't mean that it is a "banned" word. The word Brit is obviously offensive to some people but no fuss is made about using that word. Polish people may object to being called Poles but I doubt that will be called racist. It seems odd to me that some shortened versions are taboo but not others.x

[murtle]

But Reiki - people use the word Paki in a racist horrible way and people use the word Brit in a racist and horrible way.

 

What's the difference??

[ReikiAnge]

The difference to me is that I don't think I've ever heard anyone use the term "Paki" in a nice way - it's always been at best a "he's a "Paki" but ... (usually followed by how he's actually ok even though he's from Pakistan - or possibly not even from there)" way.

 

I've always heard it used in a derogatory way and I dislike the word so wouldn't dream of using it and wouldn't want a child/grandchild to, no matter how good their intent. I'd worry they'd get themselves into trouble if nothing else.

 

I don't think of Brit as being a racist term and I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone use it in a racist way - obviously others have. I'd never call someone a "Paki" but I have no problem with someone saying I was a Brit.

[murtle]

I don't understand, in Rainrotties post she said neither the child nor the mother found the term offensive, yet others are allowed to over-rule their views (which to me IS offensive)...yet there are people on this board and others I know who find the term Brit highly offensive. But because *we* don't its deemed ok to ignore their views?? (Reiki - the we is not aimed at you, it's a general *we* for the people who decide what words are offensive or not and ban us from using them)

 

It doesn't make sense to me.

 

I don't like the way many words are used sometimes, but I don't find the word offensive, I find the context offensive.

[scotslass]

I have a Pakistani brother. I say Pakistani, but of course he isn't - he was born in Scotland and is every bit as Scottish (whatever that is) as the rest of our family; it just happens that his birth grandparents were born in Pakistan. Has he been called Paki? Yup. Did he like it? Nope, and not just because he's Scots.

 

If one of his colleagues were to describe him, should they say, "you know...that Paki guy" - or should they take the trouble to find some way of referring to him which doesn't refer only to his skin colour? My brother's a strong, tolerant individual and has a great sense of humour, but why should he have to make allowances for other people's ignorance? If you asked my brother outright if he minded being called a Paki, he too would probably say "not really" - because he wants a quiet life and no unpleasantness - just as this little boy and his mother feel, I suspect. But even if he and his mum genuinely didn't mind, we have to accept that some other people may find it hurtful. Isn't it wiser not to use the word at all?

 

My brother has a son; my gorgeous nephew, who's also been called a Paki. This little boy was born in the Highlands, has Scots grandparents as well as Pakistani grandparents, speaks with a Highland lilt and wears a kilt - and yet he has been called a Paki (rarely, but it's happened, and never in a kindly way). Why? Because he has brown skin like his daddy.

 

Incidentally, my sister has also been called a Paki, and her ancestors aren't even from Pakistan (but she's brown-skinned). It's lazy and rude when adults can't be bothered to use proper language, and that's why it's better if children are taught not to use such words.

 

To me, at its simplest, it's about kindness and politeness. I can't honestly see why a child would have to refer to his friend's ethnicity, but if he did, all he needs to be told - gently - is that the proper word is "Pakistani".

[Terrier]

The bus driver's instructions started with ' walk down past the Paki shop.'

 

Typical British self-deprecating humour

 

 

 

I've never heard anybody use the term "Brit" in an offensive manner. Never heard it in a way that implies that people from Britain are lesser individuals.

 

Perhaps Ahmish and his mother genuinely weren't offended. Maybe they were aware that it was an innocent remark from a child too young to understand, that was not meant to offend. Or may be, as Scotslass said earlier, they just *said* that they weren't.

 

Were that same word to come from the same child in 10 years time it might be a different story.

 

BTW - this may be of interest:

 

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Paki

 

The child said an inappropriate word. Even though he meant no offence, it's right that he was corrected.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Terrier

[cycas]

Whoever was offended or not offended, it's a word that can get you into trouble in the workplace and that some people will be offended at, so is better avoided. Alfie is probably better learning that now than in a few years time when he starts his first job.

[Red Rotties]

A difficult one Cher when its only a child using words but maybe look at it a other way..

 

As you know my Matt is a wheelchair user, with little mobility through his body, although he speaks it isnt always clear and has from time to time used a speech box (think Stephen Hawkins). He went to a school which was full of kids with a large range a disabilities and abilities.

 

Now according to Matt and his Mates their class was full of "droolers, floppies and spasis", their words not mine, most of them had speech boxes. As 10 year olds they were awful, like normal 10 year olds learning swear words and testing boundries. The biggest laugh us as mums had was when the swear words started to appear on the speech boxes and the name calling. One little lad, who we have sadly, lost took a week to make his speech box say "f*** off you spaz" as he controlled his box through a straw, believe it or not it gave his mum so much joy that inside this broken body was a active 10 year old! Although we had to talk to our kids and tell them what was appropriate or not!

 

One mum from a younger class heard a arguement one day and was horrified that such words were being used by Matts class, and in a way she was right the words they were using were not nice but for the age group in a normal school would had been around a lot longer.

 

Did it make it right though that Matt and his mates, all wheelchair users should use these words (think the "paki" bus driver and paki shop)?

[Ian]

The difference to me is that I don't think I've ever heard anyone use the term "Paki" in a nice way - it's always been at best a "he's a "Paki" but ... (usually followed by how he's actually ok even though he's from Pakistan - or possibly not even from there)" way.

 

I've always heard it used in a derogatory way and I dislike the word so wouldn't dream of using it and wouldn't want a child/grandchild to, no matter how good their intent. I'd worry they'd get themselves into trouble if nothing else.

 

I don't think of Brit as being a racist term and I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone use it in a racist way - obviously others have. I'd never call someone a "Paki" but I have no problem with someone saying I was a Brit.

 

I think I'd have to agree - can't say I've ever thought of Brit as derogatory, at worst lazy but whilst I appreciate this wasn't your Grandsons intention Cher generally, to me, Paki is usually something said with a certain nasty tone / intent (or failing that slightly be-littling as in Prince Harry's use to his "friend"