Martin Clunes: A Man And His Dogs

[merledogs]

I wonder what Ben Fogle makes of it all - given that his father presumably has strong views on the subject of breeding deformities into pedigrees if last night's programme is anything to go by. Does Ben disagree with his father or does he agree but still presents Crufts anyway?

 

I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that conversation.

Edited September 1, 2008 by merledogs

[Red Rotties]

Little is said about the wrinkles etc on the early standards and the bulldog breed was nearly wiped out when bull baiting became illegal in 1835. However the standard comes from the original bulldog club, which was the forerunner of all breed clubs and before there was a kennel club, in 1875. The standard was changed in 1894 slightly as it was thought the dogs were too heavy. It certainly looks very similar to the picture in the early 1900s

 

 

the better breeders are aware of the problems in the breed and are trying hard to rectify them these days, such as the breathing and not being able to give birth naturally, these two poblems can travel together as no breeder wants to lose a dog under anesthetic, so the sooner it changes the better for the breed

[dirtychicken]

there's another painting by Landseer, that unfortunately I can't find on the web, of a bull attacked by dogs, the dogs look very like Amercan Bulldogs.

That's what I kept thinking through Pedigree Dogs Exposed, that the original bulldogs are very much the shape of the standard ABD now.

 

Thank you for the explanation though, and you Lesley It's all very interesting.

[celeste]

I wonder what Ben Fogle makes of it all - given that his father presumably has strong views on the subject of breeding deformities into pedigrees if last night's programme is anything to go by. Does Ben disagree with his father or does he agree but still presents Crufts anyway?

 

I'd love to be a fly on the wall during that conversation.

 

I does make you wonder doesn't it

[Helly]

I hope that with programes like this, and the other breeding one the general public has learned just a little bit from it.

[Red Rotties]

to put another slant on it though...

 

we are alerted to inherited diseases of pedigree dogs, or at least we are if we research a breed first, and often told that cross breeds are healthier but are they really? could you imagine the worse case of getting a cross breed and it inheriting the problems for both breeds, for instance a cross pug cavalier, you could get the brain/head problem of the cav with the breathing problem of the pug combined with a spinal problem. Or a rottie x gsd, the cdrm, the risk of bone cancer, hip displacia. A boxer x lab, epilepsy, hip displacia.... the list goes on and on

[ReikiAnge]

to put another slant on it though...

 

we are alerted to inherited diseases of pedigree dogs, or at least we are if we research a breed first, and often told that cross breeds are healthier but are they really? could you imagine the worse case of getting a cross breed and it inheriting the problems for both breeds, for instance a cross pug cavalier, you could get the brain/head problem of the cav with the breathing problem of the pug combined with a spinal problem. Or a rottie x gsd, the cdrm, the risk of bone cancer, hip displacia. A boxer x lab, epilepsy, hip displacia.... the list goes on and on

 

I think it's mongrels that are healthier rather then crossbreeds, the good old Heinz 57 type dog rather than the x cross x. I'm sure there are people carefully breeding crosses but I would imagine there are also many whose dog just mates with a dog of a different breed or two are put together to produce a "designer" crossbreed and I doubt they are doing relevant tests at all.

 

Although with the pug, I did see someone say that the pug x beagle which seems to be popular, more resembles the original pug than the current pug does - and could see in that instance that bringing back in a different breeding might improve the health of the pug overall

[Red Rotties]

the trouble with the puggle is immense in the states though Angie, there are so many in shelters. People buy them thinking that they look like the original pug but are shocked and dont want them when they realise most of the traits come from the beagle, and where the pug makes a great "apartment" dog the beagle needs are a lot more in the way of exercise etc

[ReikiAnge]

the trouble with the puggle is immense in the states though Angie, there are so many in shelters. People buy them thinking that they look like the original pug but are shocked and dont want them when they realise most of the traits come from the beagle, and where the pug makes a great "apartment" dog the beagle needs are a lot more in the way of exercise etc

 

Oh I wasn't suggesting that people randomly crossbreeding for money was a good thing to do Was just commenting on the original look and the current health of the breed after a comment I read and thinking if the breed were going to continue ...

 

Please don't call me Angie

[Red Rotties]

Oh I wasn't suggesting that people randomly crossbreeding for money was a good thing to do Was just commenting on the original look and the current health of the breed after a comment I read and thinking if the breed were going to continue ...

 

Please don't call me Angie

 

 

Lol if you check my post I add letters and take them out all the time

 

no what I was meaning that although the were thinking of trying to help a certain breed to get rid of some of the problems, ie in the pug the breathing they choose a dog with so many different needs that all they have done is made a new designer breed that looks like the old pug but has the instinct of the beagle so have completly took away the temperment of the pug which is the plus side to owning a pug. Whats the definition of a beagle owner again? oh yes isnt it the one in the park with a lead and no dog

[ReikiAnge]

I see exactly what you mean Lesley, that people would end up buying what they thought was a pug type dog but would actually have very different needs I don't have a huge amount of knowledge of pugs I will confess but I totally understand what you are saying.

[celeste]

There was a very interesting series on Sky a wee while ago about a dog day care center in America, the lady who ran it said of all the breeds she had had through her doors, PB's included, by far the most troublesome were the Puggles.

 

I would guess as regards X breeds being just as unhealthy as pedigrees it would depend on the genetic nature of the complaint, as in, if it was carried by a dominant gene or a recessive, but I don't suppose the majority of breeders would know anyway, so a moot point really I'm just chucking my tuppence worth in

[cycas]

 

I love that photo. 'We Is Serious Dogs'...

 

I think it's mongrels that are healthier rather then crossbreeds, the good old Heinz 57 type dog rather than the x cross x. I'm sure there are people carefully breeding crosses but I would imagine there are also many whose dog just mates with a dog of a different breed or two are put together to produce a "designer" crossbreed and I doubt they are doing relevant tests at all.

 

 

I think you are right - the idea being that a big gene pool is intrinsically less likely to produce serious problems than a small one. I suppose if you mixed pedigrees sufficiently you might improve things purely by dilution, but it would probably depend on the nature of the problem, whether it was something like the merle situation, where it really is almost an on/off switch, or whether it's something depending on interaction of a range of genes.

 

The insurance companies have no particular reason to favour any breed or mix, so given that they give cheaper insurance for dogs of mixed breeds, mixed breeds must presumably be on average be healthier. Apart from the concept of the 'true mongrel' though, I suspect that mixes with a sizeable proportion of working dog, for example working collies, are likely to have more ancestors, and fewer problems, than mixes of breeds such as the pug, which have had a much more tightly controlled gene pool for much longer.

[K9Fran]

There was a very interesting series on Sky a wee while ago about a dog day care center in America, the lady who ran it said of all the breeds she had had through her doors, PB's included, by far the most troublesome were the Puggles.

 

I'd guess that's because the owners of the puggles don't take responsibility for training and socialisation, they just want a cute doggie. Also doggie day care centres are ideal terrotories for dogs with a bit of intelligence to create havoc because there is so much 'free play' and very little mental stimulation.