Frighteneing Experience

[Mrs Mop]

Ooops sorry Summersun,

 

Liz I didn't realise this was one of your dogs, having done a homecheck for this rescue I can vouch for them putting the dog first and nothing is too much trouble.

[Rachelpirate]

I'd like to apologise to summersun, I didn't mean to come across as being rude in my reply to you - it's just that I do tend to get defensive when I hear negative comments about breeds that I own and love, so I probably jumped down your throat a bit. It's just something I strongly disagree with, and I'm sure you'd agree we'd all defend our own pets to the death.

[Jacobean]

Have read whole thread now. I'm still guessing it's over the top rough playing but obviously kev knows Pushka better and can go advise tomorrow.

 

I have dealt with handler aggressive dogs and have turned them round. I have one with me now who is bomb proof with people now. I didn't have to dominate him to sort him out. I gave him time and showed him kindness. Trained him with positive methods. His bed is a sofa and he's very welcome to it after the crap he's had to put up with before he came to us.

 

It has highlighted that yes this isn't the best place to discuss possible aggression issues. We can't see the dog and watch the behaviour. Most dogs do give a signal before they go. It's us who can't always read their body language.

 

I look forward to reading a happier post from you and seeing pics of your lovely girl in dog chat section.

 

First port of call for any problems with a rescue dog is the rescue concerned. Thankfully the rescue involved in this one now know and can sort it out, give advice etc.

[estweyn]

Ridgebacks are dogs and act like dogs, they were bred to do a job and need that taken into account. This dog is a ridgeback,greyhound lab, so not a full rdigeback and will have some traits from the other breeds as well.

 

 

 

There are many experienced rescuers on this board, also experienced in dog behaviour as well, yes this owner does need experienced help but the advice you have given is dangerous, you haven't seen the dog so don't know what is happening but you still gave advice on what to do. The wrong advice can lead to someone being seriously hurt.

 

Summersun you stated that:

 

 

 

Yet your first post in this thread you said:

 

 

 

Mixed messages there.

 

 

 

Actually it was me not Summersun that posted the last comment. If you read back you will find the quote was actually taken out of context. It is my opinion and experience that dogs need to know their place and every dog is an individual. Some dogs are just fine when given loads of liberties and will never ever dream of challenging the owner, some dogs however look for ways of becoming in charge and this is often suble not aggressive. Most dog attacks happen in the owners home and is not breed specific.

The main problem area is the bedroom and the bed or furniture. Well done if you have six dogs who lay on furniture and beds, they are obviously happy and well balanced dogs. But the reality is that not all dogs are, sometimes things have happened to them in their past, sometimes the owners just dont understand the breed of dog.

Could I ask that this quote is taken in its entirety as I do not wish to cause further misunderstandings. I love dogs, even the bad guys and feel they should be given every chance to settle happily in a home. However I am sensible enough to feel that dogs teeth on people should never be allowed even in play, this in my opinion is creating a dangerous situation. What may be a bruise on an adult could be much worse on a child, and I for one do not want to give the dangerous dog petitioners anything else to shout about.

[redditchlady]

Good luck for today, and credit to you for not giving up on the doglet.

 

Well done to the rescue concerned for being on the ball so to speak.

 

Please let us know how you get on

 

Kazz xx

[estweyn]

Nothing to do with you being new but is to do with bad advice that you are giving. It is very dangerous to give advice on how to tackle a problem when you haven't seen that problem.

 

 

 

A dog that bit first and never bothered to ask questions, learned behaviour from his previous owners, a dog that wanted to kill every dog she saw when I first got her, now she greets all dogs in a nice way. Another that used to resource guard and food aggressive, would have taken my face off if I accepted his challenge. Lots of other problems as well. All lovely family pets now. That is just the dogs, handled and turned round many horses.

 

 

Sorry Mrs Mop, but the quote of mine is out of context, if the full posting is read it is clear that I would never condone challenging a dog which is dangerous, but using subtle methods that dogs themself use can solve many problems.

 

I will keep my opinions to myself in the future, well and truly whipped on this thread, but I have to stand up for myself and say my intentions were and are good and we are all entitled to our own opinions. When I read the original posting by Fenella my interpretation was that this dog was acting in a way that is not acceptable and in honesty would not be acceptable with my own dogs.

Having seen the damage done by dogs who began by mouthing the owners (a friend actually had her arm so badly bitten the muscle had to be removed from the upper arm and she still has limited movement of the arm) I feel that any mouthing even in play must be discouraged.

My dog is a dominant dog, if he was allowed to he would rule the roost and I would never be able to get near him to put drops in his ears or anything of that sort. However rather than force the issue with him we have resolved the problems by giving him signs used by other dogs to show that he is an accepted member of the pack but basically our word is gods word. He is a pleasure to live with now. Previously before he went into rescue he had been through many behaviourists who tried all sorts of methods, none of which worked with him. So although the methods of pack structure does not meet with approval on this site, it did work.

 

Many years ago I took on a dog who had been kept in a kennel for 24 hours a day seven days a week. He was off his head with aggression. However after spending time with him and using the methods that are subtle and non threatening he began to become a normal dog again. His owner had taken him to one of the top behaviourists at the time, no names mentioned but this chap had written many books on dog behaviour and was basically the founder of the role of dog behaviourist. What the chap told the owner did not work. This dog lived with me for 3 years before he sadly died of a stomach torsion. So really what I am saying here is that there is not only one way of getting through to a dog who exhibits problems.

 

Again, I ask that this post is quoted in its entirety as when posts are chopped up they can be made to sound different from how they are intended.

[cycas]

Estweyn, I think you have a point. The problem is that the word 'dominance' has been so misused that it becomes a sort of shorthand for scary techniques such as alpha rolling, excessive physical 'corrections', and silly ones such as eating crisps out of your dog's bowl.

 

I don't think anyone would disagree that dogs need structure and they need to understand who makes the rules in the household, and nobody wants their dog chewing their arms, but the word dominance is a bit fraught. It might be interesting to discuss this in a separate thread on this topic - fenella's dog is probably not the best example for discussing this, as only she and the Pawz guys know her. It's so hard to get a clear idea of what a dog's motivations are, just from a forum post, particularly from someone who's feeling a bit shocked at the time. I'd be interested to hear more about your dominant dog and how you have handled him.

[estweyn]

Estweyn, I think you have a point. The problem is that the word 'dominance' has been so misused that it becomes a sort of shorthand for scary techniques such as alpha rolling, excessive physical 'corrections', and silly ones such as eating crisps out of your dog's bowl.

 

I don't think anyone would disagree that dogs need structure and they need to understand who makes the rules in the household, and nobody wants their dog chewing their arms, but the word dominance is a bit fraught. It might be interesting to discuss this in a separate thread on this topic - fenella's dog is probably not the best example for discussing this, as only she and the Pawz guys know her. It's so hard to get a clear idea of what a dog's motivations are, just from a forum post, particularly from someone who's feeling a bit shocked at the time. I'd be interested to hear more about your dominant dog and how you have handled him.

 

 

Thank you, it was the word dominance that gave people the heebie jeebies I am sure. I would never endorse stupid things like taking the food from the dogs bowl or the alpha rolling or any physical corrections, dogs dont have to have that to realise that you the one that lays the rules of the home. In my original posting I never suggested any of these kinds of methods but it all got out of hand very quickly!I agree that perhaps a discussion on dealing with agressive and dominant dogs would be interesting and instructive to some people who may be tearing their hair out and thinking that euthanasia may be the only way out. However I dont think I will be contributing, I dont need the stress but would read what others had to say.

[Ingrid]

Sorry but I feel that any discussion on aggression and how to deal with would be very dangerous.

Every dog is different and without seing the dog first hand things can easily be made far worse.

[Mrs Mop]

Actually it was me not Summersun that posted the last comment. If you read back you will find the quote was actually taken out of context.

 

This was pointed out to me by someone else and I apologised for it.

 

It is my opinion and experience that dogs need to know their place and every dog is an individual. Some dogs are just fine when given loads of liberties and will never ever dream of challenging the owner, some dogs however look for ways of becoming in charge and this is often suble not aggressive. Most dog attacks happen in the owners home and is not breed specific.

 

The main problem area is the bedroom and the bed or furniture. Well done if you have six dogs who lay on furniture and beds, they are obviously happy and well balanced dogs. But the reality is that not all dogs are, sometimes things have happened to them in their past, sometimes the owners just dont understand the breed of dog.

 

None of my dogs came as happy, well balanced dogs, in fact most came with terrible problems, I turned them into the well balanced, happy dogs that they are now. I didn't do this by showing them I was boss, getting them to know their place etc, that way would have lead to very unhappy, nasty dogs that some where when they came. I turned them round by setting them up to succeed no matter what it was even if they issued a challange, I turned it round to get them to do what I wanted without accepting their challenge. Trying to get something off a dog that is resource guarding and threatening you with taking your face off by turning it into him doing something that you want him to do instead and get the object off him that way is a lot harder. This dog will give up a nice juicy bone now without any problems.

 

Could I ask that this quote is taken in its entirety as I do not wish to cause further misunderstandings. I love dogs, even the bad guys and feel they should be given every chance to settle happily in a home. However I am sensible enough to feel that dogs teeth on people should never be allowed even in play, this in my opinion is creating a dangerous situation. What may be a bruise on an adult could be much worse on a child, and I for one do not want to give the dangerous dog petitioners anything else to shout about.

 

The problem with the internet is what we write often is read very differently, unfortunately others can't see our body language which when we put this onto a dog with problems shows just how wrong people can be with giving advice. If we can't read a dog's body language it is very dangerous to give advice on any form of aggression, the chances are that the owner, many are novice owners, isn't seeing what the dog is telling them which is why they need help in the first place.

 

I agree with you over teeth and I think you will find many on here will but the advice given can mean the person getting badly bitten because the owner hasn't read the dog properly. Having already seen this on another forum, I wouldn't like to see anyone else go through what this owner went through which has left her face badly scared for life.

 

One of the things I like about this forum is we can discuss various methods, there is also a wealth of experience with dogs which we can call upon at any time. Everyone has different experiences and handled things differently, but any form of aggression needs experienced people who are there and can see what is happening at that time. All a forum can do is put up various ideas for the owner to read and see if it fits with what they are experiencing. Many owners have learnt to read their dogs better because of this, but it is very important that these owners are not put at risk.

 

You will find that as a person you will not be attacked on here, but if experienced people see you put up anything that could be dangerous to the owners, that will be discussed and the reasons given why it is dangerous by quite a few experienced dog people.

[Mrs Mop]

Sorry Mrs Mop, but the quote of mine is out of context, if the full posting is read it is clear that I would never condone challenging a dog which is dangerous, but using subtle methods that dogs themself use can solve many problems.

 

I will keep my opinions to myself in the future, well and truly whipped on this thread, but I have to stand up for myself and say my intentions were and are good and we are all entitled to our own opinions.

 

As I said in a previous post, often what we right is read differently to what we intended. It has happened to most if not everyone on here at sometime.

 

No, it is what you wrote that we attacked not you personally, it seems now that you think similarly to most on here.

 

When I read the original posting by Fenella my interpretation was that this dog was acting in a way that is not acceptable and in honesty would not be acceptable with my own dogs.

Having seen the damage done by dogs who began by mouthing the owners (a friend actually had her arm so badly bitten the muscle had to be removed from the upper arm and she still has limited movement of the arm) I feel that any mouthing even in play must be discouraged.

 

We all agree that this behaviour is unacceptable it is how it is deal with that is causing the problems.

Another problem with forums is what we write giving advice is often taken a different way by the person needing the advice because words mean different things to different people.

 

My dog is a dominant dog, if he was allowed to he would rule the roost and I would never be able to get near him to put drops in his ears or anything of that sort. However rather than force the issue with him we have resolved the problems by giving him signs used by other dogs to show that he is an accepted member of the pack but basically our word is gods word. He is a pleasure to live with now. Previously before he went into rescue he had been through many behaviourists who tried all sorts of methods, none of which worked with him. So although the methods of pack structure does not meet with approval on this site, it did work.

 

Depends on the interpretation of pack structure. Having 6 dogs I do have a pack and watching the interactions of my pack is very interesting. My Greyhound is generally the leader but this depends on how high he puts things. He isn't interested in balls, my Collie/Lab is obsessed by balls so she is the leader where there are balls, when one of my other dog has a ball and she wants it, they give it up to her including my Greyhound.

 

My Greyhound wants to sleep on a chair but another dog is there, he walks up, stares at them then gives a low grumble, the dog imediately gets of because Merlin puts that chair high on his needs.

 

This is pack structure not the "I am leader everyone has to do as I say" that is often give out over everything. Or, "I have to be boss of my dogs", "I have to dominate my dogs so they don't dominate me."

 

Many years ago I took on a dog who had been kept in a kennel for 24 hours a day seven days a week. He was off his head with aggression. However after spending time with him and using the methods that are subtle and non threatening he began to become a normal dog again. His owner had taken him to one of the top behaviourists at the time, no names mentioned but this chap had written many books on dog behaviour and was basically the founder of the role of dog behaviourist. What the chap told the owner did not work. This dog lived with me for 3 years before he sadly died of a stomach torsion. So really what I am saying here is that there is not only one way of getting through to a dog who exhibits problems.

 

It looks like you think in a similar way but your posts came over as very different.

 

Again, I ask that this post is quoted in its entirety as when posts are chopped up they can be made to sound different from how they are intended.

 

It is very difficult for people reading posts to see a long quote followed by a long reply, by the time they get to the reply they have forgotten what the reply is to which is why it is easier to split posts up. Like many others I do try to keep things in context but we can only reply to what is written, I cannot see your body langage only your words. It can be very difficult to get over what you want to say with words as well. When giving advice we have to use words carefully, the word "dominate" is a good example of peoples interpretation of words. To many people this means they have to be in control of everything, what they say goes etc, most bullies give this impression, they are trying to dominate those that they are bullying. If you change this to being a good leader instead of dominating, it gives the impression of a more relaxed, softer way which encourages instead of forcing. We all prefer to be encouraged and react to being forced.

 

I am sure I am not alone in thinking you have a lot to offer this forum with your experiences, especially now we know you a lot better and understand what you are trying to say.

[kev-s]

I have just got back for seeing Pushka.

 

What a gorgeous dog she is

 

She was fine when I went in the house and when we took her for a walk.

 

We tried her on a head collar and this helped with her pulling.

 

I had taken a long line with me when we put her on this and let her play with my dog Jet she wanted to play but it was a bit rough. She got a telling off from Jet.

 

The behaviourist who knows Pushka only had 1 session with her and is going to see her next week.

 

We think yesterday was rough play and not aggression.

 

Well done Fenella for sticking with her with a little work you will have a great dog.

 

Thank you to the posters here that supported the rescue we did act as soon as we could.

 

[Jacobean]

Thanks for updating Kev. It's good to hear it's normal RR behaviour. As in a bit rough and playing. Pleased to hear this is going to have a positive outcome for all concerned. RR's are truly amazing dogs.

[Lainey]

Thats fantastic news, glad to hear it went so well

[redditchlady]

I have just got back for seeing Pushka.

 

What a gorgeous dog she is

 

She was fine when I went in the house and when we took her for a walk.

 

We tried her on a head collar and this helped with her pulling.

 

I had taken a long line with me when we put her on this and let her play with my dog Jet she wanted to play but it was a bit rough. She got a telling off from Jet.

 

The behaviourist who knows Pushka only had 1 session with her and is going to see her next week.

 

We think yesterday was rough play and not aggression.

 

Well done Fenella for sticking with her with a little work you will have a great dog.

 

Thank you to the posters here that supported the rescue we did act as soon as we could.

 

 

 

Thanks for the update. Like I said earlier on it's great to see such a good back up from rescue.

 

Kazz xx