Where Are We Going Wrong?

[Red Rotties]

Just listening to the news report on the gentleman in Warrington who went out to tackle youths vandlising his car in Warrington who then turned on him and beat him so badly that he never had a chance and has died from his injuries

 

Where have we gone wrong?

 

A lack of respect? A lack of disipline?

 

I am afraid I brought up my boys quite strictly, as a single parent I had to. But I am sure that the parents whos kids are in custody today never expected to be sat in police stations with their kids charged with such a serious crime

 

Are parents getting to soft with kids? Are we not dishing out punishments now that actually make the kids think? Is it time to bring back the cane in schools?

 

One of my arguments with school with one of my lads that he hated school that the worse thing they could do if he got into trouble was to exclude him, that was playing into his hands if he didnt need to go. I actually offered to go in to school and sit with him in every lesson to make him behave, something I never had to do because it shocked him so much the thought of me being with him all day at school made him pull his socks up, behave and do some work!

 

It really worries me, kids ganging up, beating up people, kids using guns. It has to stop but how do we fight it???

[ailsas mum]

A lack of respect? A lack of disipline?

 

Both.

My children are all in their 20's now and like you we brought them up strict, they knew if they stepped out of line then heaven help them. When we were young if a police officer spoke to you your mum asked what you had done wrong and you got a clip around the ear from her, nowadays if a police officer speaks to a child the parents threaten to them.

Personally I want to see longer prison sentences, if a prisoner has to slop out tough, prisons should not be holiday camps, there should be no television's, no radio ( a tannoy system can tell them the news a couple of times a day ). Life should mean life, why should these little b@stards be allowed to have a life after they have completed their sentence, lock the little shltes up and throw away the key. Before anyone asks I have had someone in the family who was sent to prison, my stepson has done time ( can't remember what for ) and his ex ( female ) has done time for armed robbery. We believed her when she said it was nothing to do with her and my oh who at the time was still in the police spent a lot of time trying to help her, she was telling us a pack of lies. Her new partner went into the shop she was working in and held it up, she was working at the time and helped him plan it. She was sent to cornton vale for 3 years but of course got out a lot earlier .

 

Terri

[yena]

I would say it's the parents not teaching them respect in themselves and respecting others. Also kids need to realize that they are individuals and if they are not happy with the situation they should walk away. It's a braver person who walks away, than let others lead them.

[phoebejo]

I read this morning that you can now buy stab proof school uniforms. What is the world coming to? If I felt that my child needed a stab proof vest for school, there is no way they'd be attending that school! I'd teach them at home!

[cheryl33]

take away their mobiles, their cd players, mp3 players, TVs, DVDs, Gameboys, Playstations, Nintendos and anything else they have, give them a good slap round the chops and ground them for life

[ailsas mum]

Both.

nowadays if a police officer speaks to a child the parents threaten to them.

Terri

 

Meant to say ''parents threaten to sue them'' .

 

Terri

[amanda72]

My cousin who is now nearly 17, she was an absolute nightmare, my auntie and uncle could not punish her, as she knew the law as to childs rights...

 

The social where involved as she was going off for days on end, not telling her parents where she was, this was two yrs ago, the police knew of her, my auntie and uncle tried to punish her or ground her and where told that they couldn't do any of them as one was assault and the other was holding her against her will!!!! I am sorry but my boys if they ever get in trouble with myself, my husband, or have anyone coming to the door they do get punished and they will be grounded, I am not letting them grow up like my cousin has, and now she has a two yr old daughter, don't get me wrong she has changed and calmed down a hell of a lot, she now has her own place, and often says to her mum how sorry she is, and how hard it was for her mum, as she now has her own child to look after, the social are keeping their eye on her, she even told the social worker that she was planning on having a baby????

 

I agree on punishing your child if it's warranted, my boys are teenagers and yes they can be typical lads noisy, boisterous but they know that they have to behave and not to cause trouble, they even come in at the time I have told them to, my 16yr old asks if he can sleep out, and if he is going to be a few mins late will call and let me know.

I think there is too much pussy footing around when it comes to our kids and they need to be put into line at times.

 

Shall I run now?

[Fiona S]

I totally agree mine are all boys aged 16 14 and 12 and they know thier boundaries and god help them if they overstep it.

I must say that mine on the whole are well behaved but i think its because they are lept busy the attend between the the air cadets army cadets a cricket team a rugby team karate oh and usually come to the local club with us on a saturday.

We know where they are and they have never brought any trouble to the door.

I think discipline is needed and a good grounding in respect.

[Mrs Mop]

I used to run a pre-school playgroup for children from the age of 2.5 up to when the went into school and the amount of children that had never heard the work "No" was incredible, they soon learnt it with us. Many didn't know any disciplin, and couldn't relate to other children. They struggled learning the boundaries that we had but once they accepted them, they became, normal, mischievous children.

 

Although we had boudaries the the children had to keep inside, we also treated them with respect, and the naughty seat was very rearly used. Any child sent to the naughty seat had to sit down quietly for a few minutes, once they were quiet, they were allowed off the naught seat. This wasn't considered as a punishment by the children, they knew it was for them to quieten down and sometimes they would put themselves there.

 

I still see quite a lot of these children, they all speak highly of the play-group, all that I know now are all doing well and many have families of their own that have the same or similar ground rules, one lives next door to me and several have their own successful businesses.

 

What I did notice when my boys were young, the children that got into trouble were those whose parents were too tired to bother with them when they were home, they were too busy earning money. They were encouraged to go out evenings so that the parents could sleep in front of the tv. These parents didn't know what their children were up to and many of these children were tormenting old people., thankfully none were my ex play-group children.

 

Working full time and running a house is very hard work, it doesn't leave time for many mums to give quality time to their children. Not only is there a shortage of time but they are often over tired and can't cope yet the government is trying to force out to work mums that prefer to stay at home with their children. Not all working mums are like this, some do manage to juggle it all for the benefit of the children but many don't, and it should be their choice, not the governments. Every one of these children are potential tax payers so it makes sense to make sure that they grow up as well balanced people.

[Annie]

I have 2 grown up sons of 25 and 27. Until they were 18 there were no tv's or console games in their bedrooms. Not the whole answer I know but we watched tv as a family and learnt to compromise on what programmes were watched. The PS2 was shared by them and they used it on a portable tv in the living room using headphones.

One son has left home but the other at 25 still phones if he will be late home, it's just common courtesy surely? I also cannot abide bad manners, a please or thank you costs nothing does it

I'm proud of my boys

[staffymad]

Although I am not a parent, I have friends who are and obviously a topic such like this does come up every so often.

 

I think in a way, society and its standards has a lot to answer for. Where during older generations maybe only one parent worked, there was more supervision and guidance and being involved in a childs life. Granted luxury items were spares but then most were in the same boat then.

 

Nowadays the peer pressure is so high that kids have to have the gadgets etc, add to this living costs and 9 times out of 10 both parents work. As a result parents buy the love of their children and are less likely to know what is going on when they are alone.

 

Add to this the nanny state and 'You can't give your kid a smack (not beating up) on their bum or hand. You can't ground them or take things away due to the right of a child in this nanny state. Then obviously kids like that who have no regard for others, they know they are under age and get away with a small sentence if at all.

 

Cindy

[nancy]

Don't get me started on this one. I blame the goverment they have stopped Parents and teachers from

having any form of discaplin over kids but when they grow up and start kicking the sh-t out of people

and dogs just for the hell of it Who do the goverment blame ? The Parents .

I still think kids should be seen and not heard .

[safneo]

We were discussing this yesterday and again today after hearing the awful news.

 

Yesterday we were in the supermarket. A mu had put her 4-5 yr old daughter on the ride in the shop. Her 7yr (ish) son was being vile, trying to get on and push his sister off. The mum was telling him to get off as he was told out now. He started lashing out at his sister. His mum was trying to physically keep him off the ride and he was crying, shouting and flailing around. She was really stressed and everyone was watching. In the end she lifted her hand and dropped it again and he shouted 'come on then, na-naH, you know you cant!' If kids this young know they can get away with this sort of behaviour with no consequence what hope is there!

I felt so sorry for his mother.

 

My SD was a real pain too. She has just left school and 'appears' to have calmed down a bit. She lived with her mother who bounced her back and forth to us when she couldn't cope anymore. With the teenage mindset these days its a REALLY HARD struggle. She wasnt attending school, had truancy officers round, SS were involved etc. Apart from physically dragging her out of bed and to school, and she would physically fight back, there was no way to get her there! When she came back to live with us she was told that if she didnt get up and go to school she would be dragged there in her pyjamas! She went to school! She was abusive to the teachers and thought she was cool because her mates thought it was great We were at the school nearly every week!

Then she started getting ready for school, getting on the bus ( I made sure she got on) then she would get off along the line and not go to school. OH would get a call to find out where she was and we'd have to leave work and scour the places we thought she might go. She saw several counsellors but not got anywhere as she wouldnt talk. We even suggested changing her school even though she was in her last year but she didnt want to as she said 'she liked school'. It wasnt about the school, more about rebellion.

She had all her priveleges removed and had to work for them. No key (so she couldnt go home when not at school), no mobile, no PC, no TV. She didnt care! All she cared about was her mates opinions. And she'd given them the hardluck story so they were all on her side boosting her ego and egging her on. She finally took two overdoses, Ist time she was at school complaining of stomach pains, the school called us after finding out. We took her to hospital, the second time it was one of her mates that told her mum as she had told him on MSN. her mum forgot to tell us though for 3hours!! Even though SD was up in bed. It came out in casual conversation, well more her mum ranting on the phone. I called an amubulance. SD didnt realise the seriousness of what she had done (paracetomols) until I told her what they do to you and the ambulance driver confirmed and rushed her off to hospital!

I know its really mean, but I wanted them to pump her stomach so she would never try it again but they didnt. Just talked to her and referred her to the useless counsellor she saw previously. I say useless because her idea to get SD back on the straight and narrow was to GIVE her more pocket money! WTF. She had chance to earn her pocket money as my daughter does but couldnt be bothered.

All she ever wants is money. Everything involved spending money on her. Not going for a walk in the park together, or cooking or anything like that. It was pictures, bowling, clothes shopping etc. Anyway, my daughter (nearly 14) is turning out fine, but I have always instilled in her that its important to care about other people. She would give me her last pound if I needed it and has done.

 

Apologies for the long rant, its something very close to my heart at the moment as we've had these problems and now have problems with abuse and vanalism with the local kids. The police have been out and can do nothing! The kids (some as young as 7) just ask if we are calling the police again today as they want to get arrested! We are moving ASAP.

 

The bottom line is kids have no respect! Not for anyone. They are out until all hours, even after we are in bed and the parents dont have the time. energy or a care for what they are doing.

 

Bring back National service!!

[cheryl33]

give em a slap!

[Ian]

I think it is a mixture of parents, schools, the Goverment etc who all need to apply some discipline & instil some respect - preferably kids should be brought up along those lines from a young age - as Mrs Mops was describing they then go on to grow up in similar vein. Once they do go off the rails I agree the sentence should be the sentence - rather than time off for "good behaviour" that should be an expectation - that is what they are put in there to learn in my opinion - with further punishments for anything else.

 

These days you can hear toddlers swearing at adults - generally I'd say because they were brought up by young (usually) parents who know no better themselves.

 

Although it was before my time if a copper stopped a child / youth misbehaving years ago he might have given them a clip round the ear these days they genuinely believe they can do as they like and get away with it.

 

Because after asking him several times and being ignored I dared to put a hand on the shoulder of a young lad kicking a ball around the office & then took the ball off him one of the lads, quite stocky & strong and fancying himself as a bit of an hard case but nevertheless only 16 / 17 years old picked up a computer chair, only 6 inches or so off the floor but enough that he could begin to swing it back a little & imply he was going to crown me with it.

 

I'm afraid I'm a bit old fashioned in some ways and in reply to his smirking "you can't touch me" as he did so looked him in the eye and told him bluntly "you do son and you wont get up". Seeing I meant it he not surprisingly immediately put down the chair. So, whilst it may not be the expected answer these days I'm quite convinced that they do only do it because they think they can get away with it.

 

I believe 3 young lads - all just 16 years old have been in a youth court today over this mans death. I can only hope they will get an extremely severe punishment - but unfortunately I wouldn't hold my breath on that.