Abortion

[Kats inc]

I echo what Laura has said.Many just don't think about the consequences of their actions,just the here and now.

[sproggie14]

I've been thinking more about this so-called 'judging' of women who have abortions, and how some posters feel that unless you've been in that position, you have no right to judge. Well, I can say that there has been a time in my life when I might have considered abortion if I'd become pregnant, but I still wouldn't think it was right. Things don't suddenly become right just because I do them.

 

But the thing is you might have considered it if you had become pregnant. You weren't actually in that position of making that choice. I'm not saying that things become right because someone does it but we all do things that we think are wrong on some level perhaps because they are the lesser of two evils or because the alternative is just unbearable. This thread has talked about the two extremes of abortions (ie rape victims and women who have several abortions as a form of contraception) but I would imagine that about 90% of abortions are women somewhere in the middle. Women who, for all sorts of reasons, are unable to care for a baby at that time in their life. Women who agonise over the decision and who go through a horrendous time often not helped by people who judge them. I firmly believe that until you are that woman and you have her life you cannot judge her for that decision. It is an intensely personal one and one which only she can make.

[Rudi]

I echo what Laura has said.Many just don't think about the consequences of their actions,just the here and now.

 

I agree, but I don't actually think a 12 year old is capable of thinking of the long term consequences of what bringing a child into the world means. You could sit them down and show them films and give them one of those pretend babies, but I still don't think it would sink in. I look at my nephew who is 11 and in some ways becoming quite grown up but in other ways he's still wonderfully such a boy and whilst he's more self-conscious about it, he still plays imaginery games. I can't even fathom how children have sex at 12. A 12 year old girl becoming pregnant more to do with pressure from older boys and men, than it is to do with her own wishes. I wonder how many of the 16+ fathers of the babies born by under-age children actually get punished?

[pboae]

Would those girls have consented to sex if abortion were illegal? The reason I ask is I wonder if the teenage pregnancy rates in this country would fall if abortion were illegal and kids knew that if they had sex and did not use precautions they would have to have a baby if they became pregnant. In my ideal little world where social abortions do not exist, the number of babies up for adoption would rise considerably.

 

That's an interesting take on it. In my ideal world there would be less unwanted pregnancies rather than more unwanted babies. If the expected effect of stricter abortion control is the latter, than I would never be in favour of it.

 

I followed the recent debate with interest, and I have to say my views haven't changed at all. I am fairly indifferent to the 24 week cut-off, I feel that it is entirely abitrary, medical advances have no bearing on what is essential a question of morality. Having said that I wouldn't want to see it lowered much, because I think there are probably occasions when the upper limit is needed, but I don't feel that strongly about it. If it was reduced I'd like to see it made easier to get an abortion early say up to 12 weeks, so that fewer women found themselves in the postion of being pregnant with an unwanted child in their 2nd trimester.

 

Aside from that, the debate doesn't seem to have changed much. People still want exceptions and bandy around terms like 'with good reason' or 'exceptional circumstances' with no logical justification for them in most cases. One person's good reason is another person's trivial irritation. Despite the huge press coverage, the debte doesn't seem to have moved forward much.

[elricc]

One of the girls was pregnant by a 13 yr old boy. In my experience children who are having sex at the age of 12 have often been exposed to sex in the house, n a way that makes it very obvious. They see it around them from older siblings, parents who have multiple partners, they see it as everyday commonplace, it is part of their normal conversation, they know a lot about the more outre forms of sex (can't think how else to describe it)They see there parents/carers having sex, without batting an eyelid, often frinds will be in the room while they are having sex, believe me I have heard it all, and rang social services/the police many many times.

They see it in the media and can't understand that its not directly aimed at them. I work with girls who I can only describe as sexual predators at 15, they often end up working in prostitution, or are actively working in the industry at 15.

Abortion is nothing to some of them, they have no empathy.

[BilRed]

Isn't the morning after pill effectively an abortion?

 

I'm not sure that I can really see the big deal about abortion, women miscarry all the time and at all different stages of pregnancy. You could force a woman to carry to full term and the baby could be still born.

 

Contraception does fail and also some men are extremely manipulative and very good at getting what they want. The pressure on young women and nowadays girls to have sex is immense and it is there whether or not they are old enough/mature enough to handle it.

 

Sex is a very personal thing and many people are not happy about talking about it. Why should a woman have to explain herself and the intimate details of her life to a doctor? Who is that doctor to judge whether her reasons are good enough? If a woman says she wants an abortion I think that should be enough for her to get one. As for the different stages, I don't think women should be shielded from the truth of what they mean but there's nothing to say she won't naturally miscarry a week later anyway.

 

There are too many people for the earth to support as it is, if anything we should be encouraging more women to have abortions, not less.

[ReikiAnge]

Isn't the morning after pill effectively an abortion?

 

I don't think so. I believe it prevents a pregnancy being established in the first place, whereas an abortion will terminate an existing pregnancy?

 

I think the label "morning after pill" should be used less though as it can be within 72 hours of having unprotected sex, rather than just the next morning, as the name suggests, which can be confusing. I wonder how many people who could take it, don't, because they think they're too late.

[Rudi]

One of the girls was pregnant by a 13 yr old boy. In my experience children who are having sex at the age of 12 have often been exposed to sex in the house, n a way that makes it very obvious. They see it around them from older siblings, parents who have multiple partners, they see it as everyday commonplace, it is part of their normal conversation, they know a lot about the more outre forms of sex (can't think how else to describe it)They see there parents/carers having sex, without batting an eyelid, often frinds will be in the room while they are having sex, believe me I have heard it all, and rang social services/the police many many times.

They see it in the media and can't understand that its not directly aimed at them. I work with girls who I can only describe as sexual predators at 15, they often end up working in prostitution, or are actively working in the industry at 15.

Abortion is nothing to some of them, they have no empathy.

 

That's just so, can't even think of a word for it. Just makes me more thankful for the family I've got, it might not be perfect but what you've described is just another world.

[Happylittlegreensquirrel]

I was wondering at what age people feel the unborn child has rights ( if at all )

 

 

 

 

I was wondering at what age people feel the unborn child has rights ( if at all )

[Kathyw]

Personally I woud say when the mother 'quickens' I don't know what it is called now - when the first movement of the baby is felt.

 

I agree with pheobejo -

 

The numbers of babies up for adoption would rise dramatically if we tell the underage girls if she gets pregnant she will carry the child and then be made to give the child up for adoption.

Put an implant contriceptive in her after the birth and remove it when she decides she want a child/it will suit her life style/whatever - or more importantly when she is grown up enough to provide what that child needs love and care with a mother who will put it first last and inbetween.

The father of the baby will be hauled up in court and get two/three years (no parole).

 

Draconian yes - but it sickens me that so many potential lives are being thrown in the bin literally.

Alexis I admire your stand.

 

I cannot remember who it was but a senario was given once

The mother is 43 has 11/14 children, the father drinks and the family are dirt poor, the mother is in ill health (no suprise there).

This was long long ago and the woman wanted to go to a local abortionist - the local preiest talked her out of it - she had the baby who grew to be a world famous composer - shame on me I cannot remember which one.

 

And if her mother had her way and had an abortion the world would have been deprived of a wonderful voice Judy Garland.

 

I wonder how many potentially wonderful gifted poeple are being binned.

[phoebejo]

Stupid woman who has had SEVEN abortions

 

She ought to be sterilised before she gets the chance to kill any more unborn children

[BilRed]

I wonder how many potentially wonderful gifted poeple are being binned.

 

But if you are going to go down that line of reasoning, how many serial killers, wife beaters, animal abusers and pedophiles are also being aborted?