Happylittlegreensquirrel Posted April 30, 2006 Report Share Posted April 30, 2006 I think we all know this is a very difficult discussion to have pro choice posters may find pro life views difficult to accept for personal reasons and may find them offensive, but equally pro life posters may find pro choice views difficult to accept for personal reasons and find them offensive I am sure that no one wishes to cause offence by any views they express here, but whilst this thread remains open and given that it is in the controversial section we must all expect to hear views that may not be the same as our own Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishPastry Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Pro-choice in all circumstances. I don't believe it is valid or relevant to cherry-pick scenario's we find "acceptable" for abortion. Either abortion is okay or it isn't. I can't see what difference it makes if someone was raped or is 13 or whatever other categories people bring into this...it is every woman's right to decide what happens to her body, and forcing women to carry babies they don't want is more barbaric than abortion IMHO.Every child has the right to be born wanted and loved. I'd rather a pregnancy was terminated in the first trimester (as the vast majority of aborted pregnancies are) than allowed to continue to the point where a baby or small child lives a life of resentment and wishes they had never been born. I very much agree with you, Kelly. But also I have to say I don't think it is ok for woman to use abortion as a continuous form of birth control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 But also I have to say I don't think it is ok for woman to use abortion as a continuous form of birth control. Sadly I knew someone who did that, kind of - just didn't care if she got pregnant as she could have an abortion One thing i don't think has been addressed in its entirety yet is about the foetus. I can't remember what they look like at 24 weeks but i recall reading something which distressed me, which is that the foetus will move away from the surgeon's knife; they have filmed it. I wasn't sure exactly how an abortion is performed although I've been with and supported someone who had it done. I didn't realise the foetus could react like this, and if this is so, then does it count as being a living being, and how is it killed? I do apologise if this is being insensitive , I really don't mean it like that, but so often the actual nitty gritty stuff isn't discussed and i for one don't really know how an abortion is carried out or what happens to the foetus... Lindsay x . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoC Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Ah heck, let me leap in with the probably-too-personal information I am one of those people that are struggling to conceive, and am currently having to face the fact that I might not be able to have children. In some ways it's upsetting for me to think of people getting pregnant that don't want children, but how does it affect me if they choose to have an abortion or not? Personally, I would rather all children were loved and wanted, and if that means that unwanted pregnancies are terminated then I think that's better than them being born and not getting the life and love they deserve. I used to work with someone who had a son very young, and resented him. Although she loved him, she always used to say that she regretted having him when she did, and that her life would be better without him. He was often around while she was saying things like that, and it broke his heart. He was such a good little boy because he desperately wanted his mummy to love him. I don't think that's a good life for any child. Speaking as someone who is going through it, people that find it difficult to conceive or who can't have children are not a suitable argument for pro-life. It has to be purely about what's best for the mother and the child, and sometimes an abortion is the kindest option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylittlegreensquirrel Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 One thing i don't think has been addressed in its entirety yet is about the foetus. I can't remember what they look like at 24 weeks but i recall reading something which distressed me, which is that the foetus will move away from the surgeon's knife; they have filmed it. I wasn't sure exactly how an abortion is performed although I've been with and supported someone who had it done. I didn't realise the foetus could react like this, and if this is so, then does it count as being a living being, and how is it killed? I do apologise if this is being insensitive , I really don't mean it like that, but so often the actual nitty gritty stuff isn't discussed and i for one don't really know how an abortion is carried out or what happens to the foetus... Lindsay x . Lindsay I think the film you are referring to is called The Silent Scream it is an American film ( 1984ish ) and shows ultrasound footage of an 11 week baby being terminated You can watch the film via this website http://www.silentscream.org/video1.htm if you cannot download it the script and still photos are here http://www.silentscream.org/silent_e.htm The Link to the footage has the following warning WARNING: This video contains graphic images which some may find disturbing. If you are a young person and have any doubts about viewing these videos, please check with your parents before proceeding any further. It is over 20 years old and filmed in the USA but it may answer some of your questions Sam edited to fix 2nd link to correct website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoC Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 The video is horrible, and I don't mind admitting that I cried while watching it, but my opinion hasn't changed. I daresay Iwouldn't like to watch heart surgery, but it doesn't mean I disagree with it. Does the process change the end result? Although the mechanics are unpleasant, what is showing us the detail hoping to achieve? An foetus is still removed, and will not get a chance at life. Does it really matter how it's done? I can only think the video is designed to shock us into disagreeing with abortion. I've read the letters part as well, lots of young women who had planned an abortion and changed their minds. I wonder what quality of life those women and their children have had? Can I please make a request, that those who have had abortions don't watch the video. I think it will be too upsetting, it's designed to persuade people to be anti abortion, and therefore is deliberately emotive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebe Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Ive kind of stayed away from this thread, so havnt read any of the posts except the very first one, and the last page, so if I offend anyone without knowing it, I really dont mean to In a perfect world, I would be pro-life, but the worlds not perfect, so Im pro-choice. But Ive got 2 ways of looking at things, for different reasons. Im adopted, my birth Mother had me when she was 17. She is Irish and came from a small community and her Father was the Chief of Police and very very strict, everyone was afraid of him. My natural Father was, basically, a Tinker and my Mother was too afraid of her Father to tell him she was pregnant, so hid it untill her Mum could send her over to Bristol to go in a Unmarried Mothers hostel ran by nuns, where she was treated like a skivvy untill the day she gave birth to me. The only reason she didnt terminate me, was because the Local back-street abortionist that a lot of the young Irish girls went to, had Pnuemonia, and was "off work". If that lady had been working that month, I wouldnt be here. (whose that clapping!! ) So for a while in my teens I was very pro-life and didnt agree with abortion. At 19, I was raped, I was a virgin, and very quickly decided when I found out I was pregnant, that I couldnt keep the baby, I hated the man who did it, and, sorry if this offends anyone, I couldnt wait to get the part of him that was in me, out. Im not saying I wouldnt have grown to love the baby, I probably would have, but is it a chance worth taking? I couldve resented that baby for all its life . I was in no state to bring up a baby under those circumstances, so Im very glad I had a choice, and I dont regret it. Now, Im not "pro" anything. No-one should judge anyone else, its our own choices to make, so I guess in a way that makes me pro-choice , but what Im trying to say, badly, is that apart from the 24 week window, which I think should be lowered a bit, I wouldnt judge anyone wheter they are against abortion, or agree with it. Imnot "fanatical" about anything, except chocolate, which Im very pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fee4 Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 bebe-not quite sure what else to say except-you live up to your avatar. as for the silent scream-worth noting that the foetus does all sorts of things in the womb-including wriggling about and opening mouth without being under any trauma....the automatic assumption that it is moving away assumes neurological development and/experience of pain ie we learn what causes pain and avoid it. i find it hard to believe that a 11 week old foetus has the awareness to move away from a sensation.... i remain pro life-Padfoot/bebe have put my views far more succinctly then i can.. fee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindsay Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Lindsay I think the film you are referring to is called The Silent Scream it is an American film ( 1984ish ) and shows ultrasound footage of an 11 week baby being terminated You can watch the film via this website http://www.silentscream.org/video1.htm i...................... It is over 20 years old and filmed in the USA but it may answer some of your questions Thanks Sam, maybe that is the one. Oh goodness, not sure if i can make myself look at it now... Lindsay x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSDFan Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 I understand in extreme cases maybe its the only choice but i can say 100% that i would never have one under any circumstances. Are you sure, really sure ? What would you do if you had made all possible attempts to avoid a pregnancy ( except from abstaining from sex within marriage and then discovered you were pregnant. The baby you were carrying was virtually certain to have various serious defects including hole in the heart, long bone problems and cleft palate and would be expected to die before it was 5 or 6 years old - having spent the whole of it's short life in pain. Would you really NOT wish to have that pregnancy terminated ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bebe Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 bebe-not quite sure what else to say except-you live up to your avatar. i remain pro life-Padfoot/bebe have put my views far more succinctly then i can.. fee Ah, thankyou Fee. I had to check my avatar first though, I changed it today from a BIG ISSUE one, thought you might have been saying I was like a homeless wino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Pro life here too. I had an abortion- the result of rape and 35 years later still live with the guilt. My parents were told that I might not survive the pregnancy - the baby certainly would not but the feelings still remain, maybe that is not so for everyone. What I do not understand is with all the methods of birth control available nowdays - the number of abortions carried out are so high. There is a young girl locally (16) who has had three so far - she forgets to take the pill. It makes me sick that this situation is allowed to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owlish Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 bebe-not quite sure what else to say except-you live up to your avatar. as for the silent scream-worth noting that the foetus does all sorts of things in the womb-including wriggling about and opening mouth without being under any trauma....the automatic assumption that it is moving away assumes neurological development and/experience of pain ie we learn what causes pain and avoid it. i find it hard to believe that a 11 week old foetus has the awareness to move away from a sensation.... i remain pro life-Padfoot/bebe have put my views far more succinctly then i can.. fee Sorry, I'm a bit confused, I thought from your post that you meant you were pro-choice, but then you say 'pro-life'... I think as well, the American neo-conservatives have been exceedingly clever with language. They ask people 'are you pro-life?'. Thus if you're not 'pro-life' you're then assumed in SOME way to be 'anti-life' It's the same way that when politicians tell you that they support 'family values'. Well don't we all, but they hijack the positive language for their own purposes. I think this use of language makes it quite hard for some people (particularly those who consider themselves to be Christians) to choose 'pro-choice' as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffymonkey Posted May 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 Bebe and everyone who has shared their stories with us Owlish, I started the thread with 'pro-life' and 'pro-choice' because as far as I know, they are the most common descriptions of 'moral'/ethical/personal position? Sorry if I confused anyone, but they're invereted commas because I didn't want to make it obvious that I was particularly biased in either direction - though to be honest, I really don't like the term 'pro-life' either, for the reasons you state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest caseyr Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 As i said i understand in certain circumstances there is no option and maybe the only way i would even slightly consider one is if it was 100% sure that my child would have no life what so ever. But i still don't know cos how can you prove it. Look at the people that have been told they couldn't do things and go on to acheive more. I found out i was pregnant 2 weeks after me and my partner had finished but an abortion never entered my head. I was offered a test for downs i think but said no, because the nurse told ne that even if the results came out high risk there was no guarantee my baby would have it so in my opinion whats the point. I know people go through different things and i not judging anyone on here. These are my views. I have been against abortions before my sister went through what she did, i always have been. I haven't been raped so don't know what you go through but i know in my heart i couldn't do it, i would rather give the baby up for adoption so they can be loved. I think that if you do not ever want babies, you should have a hysterectomy, so accidents couldn't happen. No contraception is 100%, i fell pregnant whilst on the pill. So its up to every woman to keep herself safe ( apart from obviously being raped). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts