Mass Immigration To The Uk - Does It Bother You?

[redditchlady]

Oath of allegiance

I (name) swear by Almighty God that on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her Heirs and Successors, according to law.

 

Affirmation of allegiance

I (name) do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her Heirs and Successors, according to law.

 

Pledge

I will give my loyalty to the United Kingdom and respect its rights and freedoms. I will uphold its democratic values. I will observe its laws faithfully and fulfil my duties and obligations as a British citizen.

I swiped this from the Home Office website, I know it says I swear by God, which IMO is wrong, but I couldn't find anything anywhere that states an allegiance to any particular religion?

 

Will keep searching!

 

 

And

So what do you mean??

 

I'm not being rude , but I don't understand why you quoted this.

 

I am so confused lol

 

Kazz xx

[Jackthelab]

I think the problem for many is that our little Island can only take so many people before the infrastructure buckles!

[Sherlock Bones]

I think the problem for many is that our little Island can only take so many people before the infrastructure buckles!

 

How will that happen? More people = more money = more ability to get new services etc, surely?

[murtle]

And

So what do you mean??

 

I'm not being rude , but I don't understand why you quoted this.

 

I am so confused lol

 

Kazz xx

 

Sheplover said that Britain didn't have allegiance to a religion, I said it was a C of E country, and that you have to swear allegiance to the God and the Queen when becoming a naturalised British person. Hence the quote, as yes you do have to swear allegiance to God and the Queen (and as Sheplover pointed out, the Queen is head of the C of E church)

 

(not sure if that helps)

 

xxx

 

I think the problem for many is that our little Island can only take so many people before the infrastructure buckles!

 

 

but is that just to do with immigration though??

 

To my mind there are a lot of people, British, born and bred, who shouldn't be pro-creating..... sorry

 

[cycas]

How will that happen? More people = more money = more ability to get new services etc, surely?

 

To a certain extent yes, but this takes time, and when it comes down to it the amount of land on this small island that we have that is not flood plain, mountain, moor, nature reserve, contaminated land, or bog is finite. ( yes, I know that statistic that says only 1 tenth of the land is built up. I think that's a lot, once you start looking at all the places where you can't build or don't want to, and how you connect it all together)

 

If you have a lot more people, you need a better water system (the south-east of the UK where most people live is already low on water most of the time, apart from those rare occasions when it floods). So, we need new reservoirs. You need more electricity. So, more power stations. They all need schools, so you need to build more of those, hospitals, shops, and they'll all need jobs too. To connect all this up you need better railways and yet more roads. Not great on the ol' carbon footprint, and it takes time. So, in the meanwhile, you ask them to be patient. Save water. Don't travel so far, the roads are too busy. Don't walk your dogs offlead, there isn't space for that. Put yourself on a waiting list for your hip operation, or even better, go abroad and pay for it yourself. Give your kids extra tuition at home, because there are 33 in the class at the moment.

 

Would it not be better if some of the new people who would like to move to the UK spent their undeniable talent, money, and energy on building stronger economies in their much larger countries of origin? If people who come here for a while to train or work were encouraged to take their experience home with them?

 

Would it not be better if rather than relying on immigrants to come and save us from our lazy ways by doing all the hard jobs, we made more of an effort to sort ourselves out?

 

Obviously this isnt' an argument for flinging people out who are already here, nor is it an argument for mucking people about like those poor doctors that were encouraged to come and train here then suddenly told half way that there wouldn't be enough places for them. It's an argument for looking ahead, and parhaps also for encouraging emigration by people who might actually like to try making a new life somewhere else, to make room for people who really do want to live here.

 

Murtle, I totally agree with you that the population issue is a 2-sided thing. We have for many years had a birth rate that is lower than 1 for 1 - ie, on average, each pair of people had 2 children or less. Recently, this has changed, and the population is now growing through reproduction as well as immigration. I would like to see at the very least an education campaign strongly encouraging people not to have more than 2 children.

 

We were the first industrialised nation in the world. It's hard to argue that other nations should control their populations and use of resources if we still can't manage it after all this time.

[Sheplover]

And

So what do you mean??

 

I'm not being rude , but I don't understand why you quoted this.

 

I am so confused lol

 

Kazz xx

Have you read Murtle's posts - that would put it into context

 

To my mind there are a lot of people, British, born and bred, who shouldn't be pro-creating..... sorry

 

Ain't that the truth!!!

 

Can't stop writing now! lol

 

I really cannot blame anyone for wanting to come to the UK for a better life, standard of living and upbringing for their children, most people want a chance to better themselves, albeit usually financially, but if you were living somewhere and saw a friend/relative etc in another country 'living the dream' woould you say, no I'm staying here as I don't want to put a strain on their infrastructure?? I wouldn't.

[Sherlock Bones]

To a certain extent yes, but this takes time, and when it comes down to it the amount of land on this small island that we have that is not flood plain, mountain, moor, nature reserve, contaminated land, or bog is finite. ( yes, I know that statistic that says only 1 tenth of the land is built up. I think that's a lot, once you start looking at all the places where you can't build or don't want to, and how you connect it all together)

 

If you have a lot more people, you need a better water system (the south-east of the UK where most people live is already low on water most of the time, apart from those rare occasions when it floods). So, we need new reservoirs. You need more electricity. So, more power stations. They all need schools, so you need to build more of those, hospitals, shops, and they'll all need jobs too. To connect all this up you need better railways and yet more roads. Not great on the ol' carbon footprint, and it takes time. So, in the meanwhile, you ask them to be patient. Save water. Don't travel so far, the roads are too busy. Don't walk your dogs offlead, there isn't space for that. Put yourself on a waiting list for your hip operation, or even better, go abroad and pay for it yourself. Give your kids extra tuition at home, because there are 33 in the class at the moment.

 

Would it not be better if some of the new people who would like to move to the UK spent their undeniable talent, money, and energy on building stronger economies in their much larger countries of origin? If people who come here for a while to train or work were encouraged to take their experience home with them?

 

Would it not be better if rather than relying on immigrants to come and save us from our lazy ways by doing all the hard jobs, we made more of an effort to sort ourselves out?

 

 

Because I'm a surveyor and because it's boring I won't go into the detail save to say that planning and building simply doesn't happen like that. When you build a new town do you really think people just put up 3000 houses and don't actually think about how the water/sewage/electricity gets there? it takes years to build something like that and years to negotiate the relevant contracts.... honest, take my word for it, it simply doesn't work any other way.

 

I actually think that if we're sending our nation across the country to work (as we have done for centuries) then other countries are quite welcome to send theirs here - if they have visas, are here legally (and i know there is an argument also about illegal immigration too) then I have no issue with it at all.

 

England is a nation of immigrants - none of us are pure english!! I can't see why we're now complaining something that made us a nation is now wrong...

 

from a scots/irish/english immigrant background SB, whose history involves Irish brickies who helped build Tower Bridge for the English whilst living in slums in the east end that only the irish catholics could live in - they were too bad for the English to inhabit!!

[kimthecat]

I'm in favour of immigratation but too many people arriving at once can cause problems.

 

"Local services across England are coming under huge strain as a result of unprecedented levels of immigration, council chiefs said yesterday.

They accused the Government of failing to take account of the massive influx of migrant workers, especially from eastern Europe, in their financial settlement for local government.

Councils say there are not enough houses for the extra workers. Public services, including transport, schools and hospitals, are finding it hard to cope with the additional numbers. Yet official figures are under-estimating the scale of the migration.

 

The alarm was sounded yesterday by Cheryl Coppell, the chief executive of Slough borough council, Berks.

 

Thousands of workers from the EU accession states have descended on the town, which has high employment levels.

Over the past 18 months, about 9,000 new National Insurance numbers have been issued in Slough, of which just 150 went to British nationals. Yet, in 2004, the Office for National Statistics recorded only 300 international migrants settling in the area.

 

Ms Coppell said the arrival of thousands of migrants was hitting the employment prospects of people already living there and had led to overcrowding problems, with as many as 15 migrant workers in a single house."

 

 

More on

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...8/ixuknews.html

 

With the amount of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers its going to get very crowded here in the future.

Our legal population is 60 million now , a strain on natural resources.

 

Sheplover. do most people want to get rid of the Queen? I thought she was more popular, now

Ali

Edited November 12, 2007 by kimthecat

[Sheplover]

Sheplover. do most people want to get rid of the Queen? I thought she was more popular, now

Ali

Not sure about most, be I think a lot do yes. I don't agree with a lot of what she stands for and although am loyal to my country I do not see why one should swear allegiance to that old bat

[cycas]

Because I'm a surveyor and because it's boring I won't go into the detail save to say that planning and building simply doesn't happen like that. When you build a new town do you really think people just put up 3000 houses and don't actually think about how the water/sewage/electricity gets there? it takes years to build something like that and years to negotiate the relevant contracts.... honest, take my word for it, it simply doesn't work any other way.

no, of course not. That was exactly what I was trying to say- sorting this stuff out takes ages, so if you have a lot of people move in too fast, then it causes problems because you can't just whack up extra houses. I personally don't think that creating more and more new towns (or more and more houses on the edges of old towns) is what we should be doing either, but we certainly can't do it quickly, whereas immigration is happening relatively quickly - unusually so in historic terms.

 

With a bit of luck it will be a temporary thing until eastern Europe becomes more economically successful and starts pulling people back to it - but it would be annoying if we then get left with a legacy of decaying shrinking economy and lots of buildings we don't need because the big population tide went out again. That would be awfully messy and depressing.

 

England is a nation of immigrants - none of us are pure english!! I can't see why we're now complaining something that made us a nation is now wrong...

 

I haven't complained of that. In fact, if you read my posts, I've said that I think it's good that people who really want to live here (of any nationality) do come to live here- as long as other people move out to make space for them. (since you quoted me, I'm assuming that was directed at me but possibly I've misunderstood??)

 

We shouldn't be stopping immigration. But if it's getting out of proportion to emigration, then I think there should be increased restriction until a balance is achieved. My argument is purely population-focussed. It is not ethnic or racial pr religious. For some reason though, the population argument seems to get submerged under the racial and religious ones.

Edited November 12, 2007 by cycas

[Scooby Dobie]

Well being the son of a supposed immigrant I find this topic quite "intriguing" to say the least.

 

Firstly, for the 30 odd years that my father lived over here, he was always an Italian national - he had to renew his visa over here every 2 years (if i remember correctly). Despite all this he started in manual / menial labour work (pot washing / cleaning etc....) every penny he earnt went to support his family in Italy, or pay English tax / NI / etc......

 

After years of graft he eventually owned two businesses, employed around 20 people so I would say he made far more of a contribution to British society than a large majority of the "average" population. Conversely, now being classed (in this topic) as an immigrant myself - should I continue to employee English people????

 

Nowadays it is far more easier (now we live in a European State) to travel / work / integrate with each other. If reverse psychology were used, I'd say - get them flippin Brits out of Tuscany!!!!!, but I wont, because they have a legal right to be there and good for them - just like the "new" Europeans have a legal right to be over here.