Right Or Wrong?

[snow]

Exactly. Who will care for Katie in the future? Sad as it is, her parents are not always going to be there for her, and there is a good chance she may out live them. And also, although it's not a pleasant thought, but Katie is very vulnerable and there have been cases of women like her being abused in care and ending up pregnant. Heaven forbid that happen but it's a possibility.

 

My best friends sister had CP her "mental age" was about 3 or 4 she was a wonderful loving person who I adored, her family were all staunch practising Catholics however, Jane was incapable of understanding about sex or about consent, and was frequently being targeted by young males with CP she went to school and day care with - in fact Jane like many a 3 year old loved dolls and loved babies and she always did want a baby of her own but the reality was she was totally incapable of ever caring for a child or understanding that a real baby was not a doll that she could handle carelessly. Her family learned that a nice young lad with CP had actually initiated sexual contact with her by asking her did she want him to give her a baby? Of course she said yes ... social services said it was her right to choose to have a sexual relationship ... this being despite the fact she had no bloody clue what she was consenting to. Her parents despite being catholic, despite being absolutely opposed to contraception went and got dispensation from their priest and had her put on the pill immediately. I have always completely agreed with their decision - they knew that they would not always be around to protect her, and that she did need to go to the day center and be around people and that there was a real possibility she'd end up pregnant far far better for HER sake that they were able to at least try and ensure that she didn't end up pregnant and have to go thru a pregnancy she would never be able to comprehend. I believe they too would have opted for sterilisation had it been offered or available to them as they were always very afraid of what would happen to Jane once they were unable to care for her.

[Kats inc]

Just listened to her Mum on Jeremy Vine. She is a loving mother who wants to do her best by her daughter. This is a daughter that cant do anything for herself, she is even fed by tube. I sometimes wish the do gooders would go away. As a mum of a wheelchair bound child I know what its like to be on call 24/7 with no help, let the do gooders spend a month caring for her daughter and then maybe just maybe they will understand, this job aint easy and there are constant worries about what the future holds

 

I've seen how much hard work it is to care for these children.My nursing shifts only lasted 8 hours but it is truly hard and heartbreaking work.I got to walk away at the end of my shift and have a break,something parents rarely get.You have my greatest admiration

 

In cases like this I agree that it is the decision of those that know and love the child.As long as it can be ensured they are doing it in the child's best interest then who are we to judge? We don't know what it's like to live with this girl,they do.I wish we could support them as parents to do the best for their daughter instead of getting tied in knots over human rights and making them feel judged.

[ReikiAnge]

In cases like this I agree that it is the decision of those that know and love the child. As long as it can be ensured they are doing it in the child's best interest then who are we to judge? We don't know what it's like to live with this girl,they do.I wish we could support them as parents to do the best for their daughter instead of getting tied in knots over human rights and making them feel judged.

 

Indeed

[Ian]

This poor girl and her Mum were on breakfast TV today. She's in a far worse condition than the girl on the programme I previously referred to & certainly didn't appear to me as if she'd ever be likely to be able to make a decision for herself. Whilst I wouldn't agree with it as a general thing in this particular case I did wonder whether her Mum may indeed be doing the right thing after all.

 

I didn't like what the director of Scope had to say on the matter.

 

I thought he was trying to relate to this girl but his concern / point was more generic and he was opposing anything being imposed on any disabled person rather than specifically concentrating on this girl. In that context I thought his comment fair - that Society should adapt for & provide support to the disabled not treat them as an inconvenience etc

 

 

My best friends sister had CP her "mental age" was about 3 or 4 she was a wonderful loving person who I adored............... I have always completely agreed with their decision

 

I too would agree that they were right. I don't think I would say the same about imposing sterilisation though

 

I've seen how much hard work it is to care for these children.My nursing shifts only lasted 8 hours but it is truly hard and heartbreaking work.I got to walk away at the end of my shift and have a break,something parents rarely get.You have my greatest admiration

 

In cases like this I agree that it is the decision of those that know and love the child.As long as it can be ensured they are doing it in the child's best interest then who are we to judge? We don't know what it's like to live with this girl,they do.I wish we could support them as parents to do the best for their daughter instead of getting tied in knots over human rights and making them feel judged.

 

 

I'd agree entirely with the first paragraph. I don't know about the second. Part of me agrees with you but (& I don't think this is far off topic) supposing that same parent considered euthanasia was in the same childs best interest - does the position then change or do we stand by the above?

 

I apologise if such comments upset anyone but it is not made callously. Though he died well before I cam along my father had a son before me. He was born breach and, he believes, due to forceps being used too tightly then born with brain damage. David died when he was about 2.5 years old.

 

Though, perhaps just before I was told about David(?) I once, as a child, said that I believed people with such conditions were better off if they died. Although I was told by my Mum never to repeat it in front of my Dad my opinion has not ever really changed & if I ever had an accident causing me such severe injury that I was unable to recover to lead a "normal" life I would personally prefer to die - even if that meant someone helping me to do so.

 

Personally I would agree with euthanasia being imposed on anyone but I would support a persons right to choose where they were able to do so.

[Red Rotties]

Personally I would agree with euthanasia being imposed on anyone but I would support a persons right to choose where they were able to do so.

 

Worry about the wod imposed there Ian

 

The right to take life is a completly different subject

 

 

In the early days with Matthew I would watch him struggling eatting and moving, my toddler turned in to a floppy baby overnight for no reason. He was injected had blood took lumber punches, you name the test Matthew had it, he had ops on his legs so they wouldnt mis shappen.

 

To have your child screaming in pain and not be able to tell you were it hurts and not to be able to make it better is the worse thing in the world. To have to do their everything, even to help them toliet manually. I worried and cried what would happen to him when I wasnt here to do it any more.

 

Thankfully Matthew went through the special school system, something many disabled children wont have any more. through their help Matt although still in a wheel chair and needing lots of help can now speak although not always clearly, can cook, is a wizz on computers, is a fine artist and is developing his skill with a camera. He has a able bodied girl friend who he met through the computer and will lead a happy and "normal" life

 

So no this cant be a president for all disabled children but as a state who leaves parents to do everything for their children without help, espeacially once they leave the school system then it should be respected that no one but the people involved every single waking hour of the younster should make the decisions for them

[Ian]

Personally I would agree with euthanasia being imposed on anyone but I would support a persons right to choose where they were able to do so.

 

Sorry this was supposed to say Personally I wouldn't agree with euthanasia being imposed on anyone but I would support a persons right to choose where they were able to do so.

[Ian]

Worry about the wod imposed there Ian

 

The right to take life is a completly different subject...........................

 

So no this cant be a president for all disabled children but as a state who leaves parents to do everything for their children without help, espeacially once they leave the school system then it should be respected that no one but the people involved every single waking hour of the younster should make the decisions for them

 

See above re the imposed. I'm sorry to hear about Matthews difficult start but think his progress is wonderful to read & a credit to your efforts

 

I don't myself understand why if, as both you & Katsinc put forward above the parent should have the ultimate say this would be different to "the right to take life" / euthanasia in priciple though - and I don't think I really disagree with you on that principle. So my question would I suppose be at what point (if any) would we have to draw a line on what the parent thought was best versus what the Dr thought was best?

[suzeanna]

After seeing the girl on tv with her mum....and hearing that she has the mental age of about 18 months...I think its the only reasonable thing to do and her mother is absolutely right. All the people bleating on about her human rights don't have to care for her 24/7.

[Red Rotties]

In my mind Ian I think its when life cannot be sustained on its own without medical intervention or if a complete vegitated state and the keeping of life does not benefit the person whos recieving it.

 

In this young girls case the doctor involved with her case is in full agreement with her parents

[scotslass]

My best friends sister had CP her "mental age" was about 3 or 4 she was a wonderful loving person who I adored, her family were all staunch practising Catholics however, Jane was incapable of understanding about sex or about consent, and was frequently being targeted by young males with CP she went to school and day care with - in fact Jane like many a 3 year old loved dolls and loved babies and she always did want a baby of her own but the reality was she was totally incapable of ever caring for a child or understanding that a real baby was not a doll that she could handle carelessly. Her family learned that a nice young lad with CP had actually initiated sexual contact with her by asking her did she want him to give her a baby? Of course she said yes ... social services said it was her right to choose to have a sexual relationship ... this being despite the fact she had no bloody clue what she was consenting to.

 

This is what I really don't understand. If an adult (in body only) has the mental age of a young child, doesn't she deserve the same protection and supervision which that child would have? Isn't leaving her vulnerable to sexual predators (an awkward phrase; I mean even that nice boy who's equally in need of supervision) tantamount to abuse?

 

I've never yet seen that theory - the right to a sex life - satisfactorily explained. How awful for the parents who are trying to care for their child and keep her safe.

[Brenda]

I can see both sides to this. I don't think it is for convenience but for the young girls quality of life, also it must be so difficult for anyone caring for her 24/7. I used to work in a day centre for disabled adults, and we had a young woman with CP. She was a bright lady, but couldn't do much for herself. When she had her period we had to change the pads for her and of course she needed to be toileted, bathed, etc by a carer. Most undignified, although of course I'm not suggesting this would have the solution for her, but in this young girls case I think it does makes sense.

[Kats inc]

Ian I think euthanasia is a whole different ballgame and can't even begin to be discussed on the same terms as this medical treatment.I think a different euthanasia thread needs starting if you want to but for me the two don't even begin to compare.

[Melp]

If she's not able to consent to the operation, presumably she is also not able to request it.

 

Although I think it's a good thing this sort of op is not performed routinely and does provoke debate, I feel the decision should lie with the people who are closest to the person involved, if the child herself is not able, and will never be able, to make the decision herself.

 

Totally agree.

I do wish there were a chemical option available though. The poor girl will never understand why shes hurting after an operation like this.

[alexis]

the offical guidance to drs is that anyone who has had a previous blood clot in the leg or lung ( and therefore is at higher risk of getting another one) can have progesterone only methods of contraception such as the mini pill or depo injection as the benefits outweigh the risks. Some people who take progesterone contraception are period free, others are not.

The mirena coil would be an option I would have thought as it doesn't increase the risk of DVT although it would most likely need to be inserted and removed under general anaesthetic.

Any gynae surgery puts women at high risk of DVT and pulmonary embolus so the girl is likely to need daily injections to thin the blood for 6 weeks after the surgery as well.

 

A difficult decision to make.