Cats

[Ian]

Sounds by far the best solution to me.

 

Dog owners argue why should I change my lifestyle but as a cat owmer why should I change mine? Seems discussion and compromise are the name of the game to me.Have you spoken to them about your concerns as you haven't said?

 

Muzzling your dogs short term so the cats get the fear factor without risk of injury until the cats know your garden is not a safe place to be plus talking to the new neighbours seems the best way forwardds or you're going to get into a real battle in which you all and mainly your animals end up losers

 

 

I sympathise Fee. One has disappeared now & the others tend to stay away but we did have a cat (don't know whose it was) that used to come & sit in my garden at times & current neighbours kitten was laid hidden behind a wall one day. I don't keep my patio doors open & I dont mind them coming in as such - but I've always had that same concern that I could open the door without knowing the cat was there one day (as happened with the kitten one day - though he did quickly scoot)

 

There's no way would I muzzle my dogs to protect somebody elses cats though - it's not comfortable nor fair to the dogs. Our dogs are being kept in their own garden it's the cat who shouldn't be there - or alternatively has to learn to "scoot" quickly. If somebody let their dogs roam into your garden & the cats were being attacked would you still think it reasonable if they then said well "why should I change my lifestyle" or would you expect them to make sure the dogs didn't come into your garden & create the problem?

[KathyM]

I have two dogs (one of whom is iffy with cats, and we're working on it). I have 3 cats. I don't want my cats being ate by dogs, hit by cars, or what have you. So I keep them in. The longer I do this, the more I feel that it's the best way all round, although given not many people have the time I have to stimulate a cat enough indoors. I think if it came to it, I'd do without cats at all if I couldn't keep them in - I am in no way suggesting those who don't keep their cats in are wrong though. It's just for me personally there are too many risks outside and I *can* keep them in.

 

When it comes to the dogs, I do keep an eye out for cats. Dharma would chase one (or play solo-fetch with one as she did with the hedgehog, don't ask). Seth would attack, maybe kill, one. But, it's not my responsibility in the end. It's the cat owner's. Personally I wouldn't muzzle my dogs to prevent them eating a cat outside.

[Ian]

I believe burying some orange peel is supposed to be harmless but a deterrant to cats. (Not sure whether dogs dislike it too or not though)

[Kats inc]

There's no way would I muzzle my dogs to protect somebody elses cats though - it's not comfortable nor fair to the dogs. Our dogs are being kept in their own garden it's the cat who shouldn't be there - or alternatively has to learn to "scoot" quickly. If somebody let their dogs roam into your garden & the cats were being attacked would you still think it reasonable if they then said well "why should I change my lifestyle" or would you expect them to make sure the dogs didn't come into your garden & create the problem?

 

I specifically bought a house right at the end of a cul de sac,away from roads,backing onto woodland and away from any houses with dogs so my cats were able to enjoy life.

If anyone moved in next to me with dogs and wasn't prepared to compromise a little in keeping my animals safe and were to take this 'I'm all right Jack' approach we would be at loggerheads.It may be uncomfortable for dogs to be muzzled but not quite so uncomfortable as it would be for my cats being ripped to shreds.

We cat lovers love our cats just as much as any dog lover does.And compromise usually is the best way to go for all concerned.

 

And yes cats hate anything citrus so try lemon or orange peel in your garden to deter them.If I eat an orange Jemima soon scoots off my lap

[Fee]

I must admit I don't feel happy abut muzzling the dogs either. Judging by Sophie's reaction when I tried (very slowly and gently) to get her to accept a halti I don't think it's an option for her anyway, she would completely freak.

 

I've also spent three years trying to get Taz NOT to chase things, and have finally reached a point where I can call him off a rabbit - so long as I'm watching him like a hawk and my timing is spot on . I suspect 'allowing' him to chase the cats out of the garden would be far to much fun for him and undo all of that.

 

I have tried letting Meg out - she does lots of excited barking, but has no interest in actually chasing anything; the cat ignored her completely I'll try Molly and Musky next time.

 

I haven't spoken to the owners yet, it was only a few days ago I worked out where all the new cats in the neighborhood were coming from. Judging at the way they glare at me when I go past with the dogs I'm not over-hopeful that they are going to be very helpful, but you never know. It's probably as much of a nightmare for them realising they've moved in next to a pack of cat-hating dogs as it is for me

[KathyM]

It's not your problem how they feel about it - to be honest if they turn out to be against keeping their cats in, it's their problem. They can always build a cat run. I can't quite understand how someone else's outdoor cat has to be everyone else locally's responsibility. It's their job to keep their pets safe, and it's not like it can't be done.

[Ian]

I specifically bought a house right at the end of a cul de sac,away from roads,backing onto woodland and away from any houses with dogs so my cats were able to enjoy life.

If anyone moved in next to me with dogs and wasn't prepared to compromise a little in keeping my animals safe and were to take this 'I'm all right Jack' approach we would be at loggerheads.It may be uncomfortable for dogs to be muzzled but not quite so uncomfortable as it would be for my cats being ripped to shreds.

We cat lovers love our cats just as much as any dog lover does.And compromise usually is the best way to go for all concerned.

 

And yes cats hate anything citrus so try lemon or orange peel in your garden to deter them.If I eat an orange Jemima soon scoots off my lap

 

 

I'm not suggesting cat lovers shouldn't love their cats, nor that they ought to keep their cats inside. I've happily fed & played with the neighbours two cats when they've gone awayfor the w/e & I certainly wouldn't harm one. I would probably be quite upset if the dogs did. Cats kill birds, mice etc - I don't enjoy that but I'm not calling for cats to be kept away or restrained in any way.

 

The fact is that I (& I would think most dog owners here) also take my dogs out on a lead, I don't let them rome. I don't let them wander into other peoples gardens etc but I don't therefore think it unreasonable that I should expect them to be able to go into their own garden without worry. I fail to see how that's an "I'm alright Jack attitude" or how your suggestion of a neighbour / dog owner having to muzzle their dog in their garden whilst cats / owner just go on as always - including it appears into their neighbours garden at will is in any way a compromise from the cat owner.

[zico's mum]

Dog owners argue why should I change my lifestyle but as a cat owmer why should I change mine? Seems discussion and compromise are the name of the game to me.

 

Disagree with you there.It's not that long ago since dogs were regularly seen wandering around the streets all day long,owners by and large no longer let this happen,so why can't cat owners do the same.There are various methods available for owners to keep cats in their own garden not allowing them to crap wherever they feel like it.At the very least with dog poo it's visible - I loathe digging into soil in my garden to discover a pile of cat s*** hidden from sight or opening the lounge windows on a hot summers day to be greeted with the stench from cats having usedmy front garden as their own personal toilet.I'm not going to muzzle my dogs in MY garden simply because my neighbours are not prepared to keep their cats in their own.And Daisy I am sure would kill a cat if she was to get hold of one.

[cycas]

Cats are different to dogs, and that difference is recognised in law. If your dogs roamed around unsupervised and caused an accident, you'd be liable, because our very sensible laws recognise that dogs can be trained to quite a high degree, and that it is possible to take them on-lead away from your house then exercise them somewhere else, and that roaming dogs are much more of a menace than roaming cats are.

 

You can't do that with cats. Cats are highly territorial, less obedient, climb much more ably than dogs, and are not usually suitable for parkland walking. If you did try to take your cat to the park, it would be at risk from off-lead dogs. I doubt anyone here would want all cat-chasing dogs to have to be on the lead all the time in public so that cat owners could safely walk their cats.

 

I do not expect my neighbours to keep their dogs restrained in their own gardens, and recognise that if my cats venture into their gardens, they might be at risk. That's the risk they take in return for the ability to really be cats. It's a risk that cats have always faced. I don't expect any of my animals to live a risk-free life.

 

I also provide them with plentiful litter opportunities in their own area, to discourage them from messing other people's gardens.

 

Several of my cats are very large, energetic animals, which were homed to me specifically because I live in a rural location with lots of space. One of them will happily walk 2-3 miles with me and my dogs. I do not feel that this large energetic animal would be appropriately exercised or diverted if I kept him in my house all his life, even with access to a cat run. He is physically equivalent to, say, a Scottish Wildcat, and would need a zoo-quality enclosure and habitat.

 

Frankly, keeping my cats in is a huge task. It involves keeping all the doors and windows closed at all times, and that includes upstairs because some of my cats are athletic enough to get out of a first floor window. Actually, they can get *in* through a first floor window as well. If I were to keep my cats in, I wouldn't just need a cat run, I'd need air conditioning, or bars on my windows!

 

It would make rehoming cats from a 'oh, wouldn't it be nice to have a cat - can we afford the food and vaccs?' level of decision into a decision that would involve considerable cost and building work. Please think carefully about whether you really want to make the cat into an expensive specialist pet, and the repercussions that would have on cat rescues.

 

Re the predation issue: yes, cats do predate birds and mice. In some environments, for example, in Australia, their impact on the ecosystem is significant and very unfortunate.

 

This is not the case in the UK, where domestic cats have been part of our ecosystem for at least 2000 years. Domestic cats have been native to Britain longer than, say the rabbit, which is one of the animals that my cats regularly kill. They also kill mice and rats: until very recently, this was considered a positive attribute, and a reason to own a cat. The RSPB does not consider the domestic cat to be a major cause of species decline in birds in the UK.

 

I consider the unique status of the domestic cat to be a very special part of our culture, and I really don't think people think hard enough about the implications of suggesting changes to it.

Edited September 12, 2007 by cycas

[BilRed]

I tend to think a few close calls with your dogs will sort out the cat problem Fee.

 

I love cats and have had my own in the past who have wandered freely. Had any come to grief because they had wandered into a dogs garden I would not have been blaming the dog or the dog owner. I've done a few little things where possible to deter cats from coming in to the garden or to give them a fast escape route out - mainly by way of fencing design - but that's as far as it goes.

[barkingmad]

I had a cat that would sit on next doors fence and torment the poor puppy that lived there. The lady owner of the dog tried spraying the cat with tthe hose but this did not last for long as the cat got wise to it. In the end we agreed that something had to be done as the puppy's barking was driving everyone nuts. So one day she let the puppy out and went upstairs to a window with a water gun. I let the cat out and went upstairs to an open window with a water gun. The cat got the message in the end. Everyone was much happier. This cat was my cat who i loved dearly but he was the problem. I think if you can work with the cats owners then it will get sorted. Keep a couple of water guns ready so that even if you dont want to let the dogs out the cats will learn that your garden is off limits all the time.

[celeste]

I do not expect my neighbours to keep their dogs restrained in their own gardens, and recognise that if my cats venture into their gardens, they might be at risk. That's the risk they take in return for the ability to really be cats. It's a risk that cats have always faced. I don't expect any of my animals to live a risk-free life

 

I agree completly, I have one cat who, thankfully, seldom ventures from her own garden, but if she was caught by a dog, much as I would be broken hearted I would not expect my neighbours to curtail their dogs activities on their own property so my cat could do as she pleased. There is a cat who ocassionaly comes into our garden and bully's Polly, I haven't a scooby where it comes from and my dogs do chase it, I would never even think of muzzling them. I think there are far greater dangers for a free roaming cat, such as cars, than being caught by a dog,

[Maria]

I'm not suggesting cat lovers shouldn't love their cats, nor that they ought to keep their cats inside. I've happily fed & played with the neighbours two cats when they've gone awayfor the w/e & I certainly wouldn't harm one. I would probably be quite upset if the dogs did. Cats kill birds, mice etc - I don't enjoy that but I'm not calling for cats to be kept away or restrained in any way.

 

The fact is that I (& I would think most dog owners here) also take my dogs out on a lead, I don't let them rome. I don't let them wander into other peoples gardens etc but I don't therefore think it unreasonable that I should expect them to be able to go into their own garden without worry. I fail to see how that's an "I'm alright Jack attitude" or how your suggestion of a neighbour / dog owner having to muzzle their dog in their garden whilst cats / owner just go on as always - including it appears into their neighbours garden at will is in any way a compromise from the cat owner.

 

Completely agree with you Ian....

 

Luckily,we don't have any problem anymore where we are now,(in the back garden at least),as most neighbours here have dogs. The front garden is different, as that is unenclosed, but it's not pleasant mowing the front lawn at times with all the cat poo In our old house we were the only petless household, and our gardens (front and back)were the local cat toilets.....lovely for when we had our nephews visiting.......

I would never own a cat,(partly because I was severely allergic as a child) but would also never deliberately harm one either.However,our back garden is a place which is a totally secure and safe environment for our dogs , and where they can wander at will without being a nuisance to anyone else (unless they have a barkfest in which case they come straight back in). I'd no more think of muzzling my dogs in their own garden (though tbh Smudge would rather love any visitor),than wear a straitjacket in order not be be able to confront a burglar.......

[khanu]

Think the muzzling thing has been taken way out of proportion

I took it to mean muzzling a dog that would be likely to catch and harm a cat until the cat got the message and therefore the danger would be over. It wouldn't be a forever more solution and probably not even needed for most dogs - mainly just the pointy dog variety that are quick enough (and more likely to be motivated enough) to catch and kill.

 

I muzzle Syd and Willow when we go walking at the beach, both of them get overexcited there and nip (or in Syds case have a real go at) the others in chase etc. With both muzzled I relax, they go off lead and have fun and no one is hurt. It isn't necessary everywhere, only where they are highly excited, and if either of them manage some self control at some point they can stop wearing them. I don't see the difference here to be honest. I would hate for one of my dogs to be the cause of a cats death, especially if I knew that by muzzling for a short time would have prevented it.

 

Whilst muzzling may not be a solution for all it is *a* possible one.

 

And as for the cat poo thing, whilst annoying at times to be honest the foxes, badgers etc are far more of a problem.

 

I would suggest that if cats coming in to your garden cause such a problem for people then they need to take their own precautions against it. I would also have hoped that dog owners who get so het up about other people being intolerant to dogs would show a little more tolerance for other pets

[KathyM]

I think there's a vast difference between muzzling a dog on public property and muzzling one in its own garden, personally. It wouldn't make a difference to me if Seth was a pointy dog, I still wouldn't muzzle him on his own turf. If people don't want their cats eating, that's their responsibility, much as I wouldn't *want* my dogs to harm them.