The Mccanns

[cassiespookymum]

To be honest I think the press have treated them very well, can you imagine if Maddies mum had been a single mum from a rough council estate? It would have been a different type of reporting.

 

 

 

I agree completely - the press would have had a field day if she was not a 'professional' who actually should have known better than to leave her children alone. In fact as a GP she probably has to sit on child protection conferences making a judgment on parents who leave their children home alone.

 

There is something very strange about this I feel, I cannot understand why the other children were left and only the little girl was taken

[Brierley]

I think the only thing certain in this case is a little girl is missing and, after all this time, it doesn't appear that anyone is any nearer to finding her.

 

Surely, until the full facts emerge, recriminations can wait.

 

Sad, all very sad!

[AmandaUK]

What doesn't sit right with me is the report that when the mother found Maddie missing she ran back to the table shouting 'they have taken her, they have taken her.'

 

Now, they said the patio doors were a short distance from where they were sitting and they could see them all the time.

 

Why did she not shout from the patio doors?

 

Why run back to the table and leave your twins in the house if you thought someone had taken your other child?

 

Why did she shout ' they have taken her? Would that be your first instinct if your child, who was known to be a bad sleeper, was not in her bed and the door was open? Why did she assume someone had taken Maddie?

 

I really don't see anything strange about the way maddies mum behaved when she found her girl missing, the poor woman would have been in terrible shock. I don't thing it right that they left her, I wouldn't leave my dogs alone like that on holiday.

 

However, I find the general attitude here towards her parents very cruel.

 

How anyone can question their reluctance to return to the UK, I just don't know. I can totally understand it. How many mums or dads in their position would want to leave Portugal under these circumstances? It's like giving up on Maddie. Sure they will have to return home at some point, but I can understand perfectly why they find it so hard.

 

I wonder if those saying they should be back home are parents themselves? How easy would they find it to walk away

 

Whatever we believe of their actions, these parents need positive thoughts & compassion, not judgemental condemnation from (and I generalise) the public. At least that's my take on the subject.

[Brenda]

Clearly what the McCanns did by leaving those children was very wrong indeed, they know that and will regret it for the rest of their lives. A totally wrong decison, but I don't believe they should be so heavily criticised for it. Their daughter is missing, they are suffering enough and they need support. I don't think they had anything to do with her disappearance, but something doesn't feel quite right - can't explain it, not sure what. I know none of us would know how we would react if we were in their sitauation, but their reaction does seem manufactured and robotic in some way. It must be very difficult to decide when to come home, I expect it feels like they were giving up on Maddie if they did. I'm not sure about the fund either, some things don't add up in all of this. However, the bottom line is an innocent child is missing, probably dead by now, that is so heartbreaking and sad.

[Ian]

Its easy to judge them for leaving the children unattended, but what seems normal to some is paranoia (?sp?) to others. And as professionals they will be used to leaving their children in the care of others. I doubt if they were the first to go over to that restaurant, and I am not sure that doing so was all that negligent.

 

 

Ruth

 

They didn't leave their children in "the care of others" they left three young children alone in a hotel room. As a result of that one of those children is missing and quite possibly dead!

 

How is that not negligent? If you did the same in this country Social Services would quite rightly be calling at your door.

 

As for the language they are using when talking about suing, I repeat, I doubt if they are totally in control, no matter how cool they seem to be.

 

Ruth

 

I could probably agree with you on that one, whatever the circumstances it must have had an impact on them.

[Ian]

Why did she shout ' they have taken her? Would that be your first instinct if your child, who was known to be a bad sleeper, was not in her bed and the door was open? Why did she assume someone had taken Maddie?

 

Despite the fact I'm suspicous of them in the absence of any evidence I've got an open mind on what happened that night.

 

I think if I remember rightly it was initially said a window had been forced - this wouldn't therefore necessarily be an unreasonable assumption to make. Running back to her husband / companions for help might also not be so strange in the circumstances either

 

 

How anyone can question their reluctance to return to the UK, I just don't know. I can totally understand it. How many mums or dads in their position would want to leave Portugal under these circumstances? It's like giving up on Maddie. Sure they will have to return home at some point, but I can understand perfectly why they find it so hard.

 

I think I would agree with this aspect. If it were my litte girl I'd probably be trying to give the other children as "normal" an environment as possible but despite the fact there's a limit to what they can do I think I too would have to stay out there until she was found.

 

2 points Ruth from me.Firstly yes what they did in leaving their children alone in that apartment would be considered negligent in this country and quite possible illegal.Secondly I would dispute the fact that as professionals we don't show our emotions.This is their child we are talking about.Most people would be in bits and having a medical background does not train you to lose your emotions.I'm a nurse and used to dealing with very difficult emotional issues yet when Tilly went missing I was in bits and a complete wreck.I watched a nurse colleague go through losing her son to cancer,naturally she was distraught..we're all human and that human-ness comes out during times of high stress no matter what you do professionally.These 2 appear too cold for me,especially him.

 

 

I agree with this. Dr's nurses, police, fireman, ambulance crews etc have to form a certain amount of professional detachment in an emergency in order to get their job done and save those lives but they are human and wouldn't be allowed to perform that role in a personal situation because you can't possibly expect anyone can be that dispassionate

 

The interviews and 'media courting'. If I were strong enough, and if I thought that by doing these things, it would help bring about worldwide awarenes of the fact I needed help, then I imagine I would do the same. Although they leave their other two children whilst they have been spreading the word about Madeline, I'm at a loss as to why people feel need to condemn them for that as well ? They are trying to get their daughter back and are desperate to do so.

 

Why condemn them for meeting the Pope ? They are obviously a family of strong faith and were maybe seeking some sort of peace, divine help - call it what you will - it may have brought them comfort ?

 

I don't have a problem with them courting media help, nor going to see the pope. I do have a problem with them leaving the other children in order to do so - why could they not go with them when they went to see the pope? As has already been said I would have thought that most people if they'd just lost a child wouldn't want to repeat that same mistake.

[Jakeysmum]

I think the fund was initially born of people wanting to help somehow, putting up posters etc. I feel for these people, I really do, they must be wracked with guilt but I have to say I wouldn't be leaving my remaining children behind. Then I wouldn't have left my children and popped out for dinner either. What I do know is what it's like when you think your child is missing. My youngest has always been over protected by me, I never leave her with anyone, but whilst on holiday one year I popped to the loo leaving her with dad, sister friends etc. She went to watch the poolside show with her sister, 14, and the other children, less than 50 yards away. When I returned a fire had broken out and she was missing. I thought someone had ripped my heart out. She was found minutes later but I can tell you in that time I was incapable of rational thought. I guess what i'm trying to say is I doubt her parents are really thinking straight at all, and i'm sure her mother wouldn't have been when she found her gone, and I don't think they can be condemned for trying to keep her in the public eye. x

[Kathyw]

I am not a mother but cannot understand for the life of me what they and their friends were thinking leaving their children alone.

 

The so-called broken window was found out later to have been broken before they arrived in Portugal.

They left the door open, as did their friends with their own children, so that they could come back and listen outside without disturbing the sleeping children.

 

1. How often did they look over to check if anyone was near the open door? and how good was their view? it would have taken seconds for someone to slip in and slip out again, in the seconds that they maybe never looked up.

 

2. One of their friends went to check on his own son because the child had been vomiting earlier that evening, he stood outside the open door and listen for any coughing noises, he heard none so went back to the restaurant.

 

3. They all went out every night and left their children. Every night.

 

As I said above I am not a mother but

 

1. Eating, drinking laughing with friends, how often would you have looked over?

 

2. If any of my animals are sick one of us would stay behind if it became neccessary for one of us to leave the house.

When Raffles was poorly, his bronchi trouble had flared up, I sat up through the night watching him like a hawk, I was terrified he would stop breathing if I took my eyes off him.

And Grip and I spent many a night hand and paw touching because I feared the worst.

 

3. Every night? couldn't they have taken it in turns, one couple stay and do tours of the flats, go in and actually look at the children for themselves?

 

I have felt uneasay about this from the start, to be honest, downright suspicious.

 

One thing women (off the board) comment on is that the mothers eyes have always looked the same from day one.

 

Is there a women alive anywhere who can cry the night through and her eyes not show that fact the next day?

 

Jogging around the area just looking at the ground. I would have been running all over the place looking for my dog/cat had it been missing.

 

Tis true no one can say how another would/should/could react in a certain situation but however professional they are, they come across as unfeeling and ice cold, I do not think they are taking stuff to keep their cool, they have their wits firmly about them.

 

I pray for little Maddie that she is safe and being taken care of and is not afraid but I fear that she is already passed over to where she will never face fear or pain.

 

I know someone personally that sent £200.00 to the Maddie fund at the very begining, when she read things that made her suspicious about what the money was being used for, she wrote and asked for a complete rundown of what they intended to use the money for, she was told basically that it was for whatever the mccanns wanted to use it for. She asked for her money back as she did not want to contribute towards their living costs. She asked that the money be sent to a childrens charity instead. This was ignored as was a followup letter.

[BilRed]

I don't really know about this whole situation, it is hard to make judgements. I know early on the McCanns said that they would not leave Portugal before their girl was found which they seem to be sticking too. I'm not sure how normal life would be for the other children even if they did come back. I think the girl is dead but I respect their refusal as parents to give up hope, I'm not sure how much other people should be dragged into that.

 

I sympathise with them over their self control though, I have often been accused of not being bothered about things because people feel I do not show much emotion. For me, to cry infront of other people or on TV would be unspeakably embarassing and I would certainly want make up to cover any sign that I had been upset. I generally deal with upsetting situations by been analytical or taking practical action which again is often mistaken for lack of emotion. The rest of my family think I'm a drama queen. People do react differently.

 

I don't think they have had any involvement in what happened though, as had it been planned I don't think they would have chosen to present themselves as such negligent parents. Going out for a meal like that was bound to draw a lot of criticism in the circumstances.

[Red Rotties]

In my head I think its preferable to think that Maddie died from an accidental overdose of sedative, and she died feeling happy and safe in the arms of her family and that because of their jobs they panicked, than the not knowing what happened that night...........

[greytgirl]

I just hope and pray she will be found safe and well, but in my heart I doubt this very much, if this is the case then I hope her end was swift and suffering free it kills me to think of her saying "where's my mummy" etc...

and although it helps the situation in no way I also would rather starve for the duration of my holiday than leave my 6 year old daughter alone! she is my 100% number 1 priority and nothing EVER would cause me to leave her in the daytime, nightime, in this country, in my home or ANYWHERE, and I mean that, and to compare it to people sitting in their own back gardens is totally wrong..I have done this BUT my front door has been locked, to get in through the back, someone would have to pass us, my windows locked, her window is ALWAYS shut when she is in bed, my house is 100% secure, well Im sure there is always going to be a way of someone getting in, but that could happen while we are asleep in the next room..which to be honest is one of my biggest fears already.

I know I am a paraniod parent, I am..but for me to let my guard down is me taking a risk on the most precious thing on this earth to me and I would never do it....because as the Mccanns have dicovered things DO happen and not always to someone else

God Bless you Maddie..

[AmandaUK]

In my head I think its preferable to think that Maddie died from an accidental overdose of sedative, and she died feeling happy and safe in the arms of her family and that because of their jobs they panicked, than the not knowing what happened that night...........

 

I am utterly horrified to read this and can't believe someone can openly post such a thing. I think you should be very careful about posting things like this.

 

While her mum and dad have undoubtedly been neglectful in most peoples eyes, there is a big and quite horrible jump from this to hinting that you think they accidentally killed their child. This is turning into some macabre game of chinese whispers.

[Mrs Mop]

QUOTE(Red Rotties @ Sep 2 2007, 08:54 AM)

In my head I think its preferable to think that Maddie died from an accidental overdose of sedative, and she died feeling happy and safe in the arms of her family and that because of their jobs they panicked, than the not knowing what happened that night...........

 

I am utterly horrified to read this and can't believe someone can openly post such a thing. I think you should be very careful about posting things like this.

 

While her mum and dad have undoubtedly been neglectful in most peoples eyes, there is a big and quite horrible jump from this to hinting that you think they accidentally killed their child. This is turning into some macabre game of chinese whispers.

 

Red Rotties didn't say that happened, she said she would have prefered that to happen, that isn't accusing them of accidentally overdosing their daughter.

 

On the subject of them coming over cold, many times I was accused of being cold with Bill because I used to put pressure on him to walk, if he couldn't walk is life would have been a lot worse than it was. No, I didn't show what I was feeling, instead I cried inside and often when alone. If I had shown my feelings, Bill wouldn't have put the effort in to walk but sat watching the tv in the same room day after day. Like me, they can be crying inside and sobbing when alone.

[Red Rotties]

I am utterly horrified to read this and can't believe someone can openly post such a thing. I think you should be very careful about posting things like this.

 

While her mum and dad have undoubtedly been neglectful in most peoples eyes, there is a big and quite horrible jump from this to hinting that you think they accidentally killed their child. This is turning into some macabre game of chinese whispers.

 

This is what the papers over there have been accusing them of, I havent, all I have said that in my head I would rather this had happened than the thought of Maddie being hurt and scared somewhere at the hands of strangers.

[Alison]

I haven't got children but I believe that I love Sol and accord as much care and concern to every aspect of his health, welfare and happiness as I would a child or any other living thing for whom I take responsibility. He's not able to make decisions about his own safety - I have to do that for him.

 

I often make remarks on the forum about never leaving him alone, that he comes everywhere with me but that's not strictly true. He waits in the car while I go to pay for petrol for example. The car is always locked and the windows shut but can I honestly say that my eye is on it while I'm rummaging in my purse? This really is about it as far as leaving him alone is concerned, but if someone wanted to make off with my car with him in it, those few seconds would be enough. Am I being irresponsible? I could leave him at home instead. And my house could get broken into while I'm gone.

 

Most of what I know of the McCanns is from what I hear on the radio as I don't watch TV or read newspapers very often. As for their behavior or demeanour, can any of us say what we'd be like in those circumstances? I suspect that if it was Sol, I'd go completely to pieces and probably never be able to live a normal life again. On the other hand I might react entirely differently, deal with everything coolly and logically. I just don't know. The combination of such extreme panic, anxiety, guilt, hope and depression would affect every individual differently. I'd imagine that the McCanns will be taking sedatives or tranquillisers and am pretty sure I'd have to.

 

There was a prog on Radio 4 the other day, I think it was Matthew Parris talking about the subject along the same lines as this thread was started - things somehow not seeming "quite right", particularly in terms of the McCanns' involvement with the media. I can't remember what was said (think my own thoughts were opposed) but came away with the sense that at a vulnerable time, the McCanns were not only offered a straw to clutch at but almost had it thrust upon them; whilst they'd probably like the publicity circus to stop now and jump off, they're in a Catch 22 situation and can't. Damned if they do (condemned for being seen as giving up on their daughter) and damned if they don't (because some people believe it's not "normal").

 

Maddie went missing on I beleive May 4th?

The company set up just 10 days later

When it comes turning a fast buck, I don't think the various professional consultants and advisors involved would have hesitated in preying on the McCanns' vulnerability. Nor do I think their best interests would have been a concern. I imagine that I'd be in a complete zombie-like state of shock and if someone "professional" came along and told me that this company thing would help, I'd just go along with it, caught up in the whirlwind.

 

Something about the way they handle the whole thing is just too controlled, too manufactured.

Further to my foregoing comments, I can't help but think that the McCanns have been targeted at their most vulnerable time by publicists looking to make their odious living. A combination of being advised by "experts" and presumably taking sedative medication might account for this.

 

I'm commenting on hearsay and don't know about forced windows or what Maddie's mum's immediate reaction was upon finding that she wasn't in her bed. Again, I suspect that were it Sol and the situation were exactly the same, my own first thought would be "he's wandered off through the open patio door" rather than "he's been abducted" but unless it actually happened, I really don't know. Just read back through this and realised that I'd probably panic so much that I'd be utterly hysterical and very possibly run over to the rest of the party screaming instead of doing the logical thing of staying by the door and hailing them. Would I leave Sol in that situation? No. But that doesn't make the McCanns wrong either. We all know our own children and pets and what's right/wrong for them and it will be different in every case. I was in Portugal this time last year and found it so relaxed and friendly, I thought nothing of walking through town alone late at night - something I'd never contemplate in most British towns. I don't think that I could have classed it as my own fault had I been assaulted. My guard was definitely down whilst I was there, whereas I'm hypervigilant in this country. I wasn't being reckless or lulled into a false sense of security by sunshine and wine, I'd simply checked the situation out and adjusted my "safety" levels accordingly.

 

As for leaving Maddie and her siblings unattended in their beds, I've heard conflicting reports. Assuming that the restaurant was only 50 yards away and in the same secure compound/complex as the apartment, that the place was sufficiently quiet that any untoward sound could be heard and that one of the party had their eye on the apartment door at all times I personally don't see anything wrong with that provided that there was no other access to the place. Sol and I often go to friends' homes for parties and BBQs and every time I know I'll be taking my eye off him, even just for 30 seconds while I get food, I make absolutely sure that at least 2 other people have (and let them know when I'm back on duty). Some friends think I'm being daft but I always insist that their front doors are locked and that the keys are removed and placed in a drawer. That way if we happen to be in the back garden and dogs are doing their own thing in the house, I know that no intruder can enter, no guest can nip out to their car for something and inadvertently leave the door ajar and allow Sol or any other dog to escape. When accusations of silliness on my part are bandied, I make the point that it only takes 2 seconds to get the key and unlock the door; better those 2 seconds be spent doing that than by the dog spying a cat, giving chase and getting mashed on the road by a passing car. When Sol's with me, my eyes and ears are always attuned to what's going on and, for the odd moment when that's not possible, I charge someone I trust with the responsibility. Is that not what happened with the party that the McCanns were dining with? (Not a rhetorical question btw, I genuinely don't know). In terms of noise, I would have Sol right by my side (even if that meant me not joining the others for dinner) if the noise of cicadas meant that I couldn't hear the disc on his collar from 50 yards away if he so much as turned over in his sleep.

 

Provided that the McCanns did take all such precautions, I think there's actually something to be said in favour of leaving the children alone in the circumstances (as I understand them). I've seen overprotected kids and the lack of confidence that it can bring about and the impact lasts well into adulthood. They're not just diffident, they're terrified of life because their parents have implicitly given them the message that the whole world is a frightening and dangerous place. It'd be very hard for the McCanns to admit it, but maybe they deliberately left the children (in what they believed were safe circumstances) for very positive reasons such as the foregoing and not just being cheap about babysitting?

 

Apologies for the constant dog analogies, but I really struggle with the balance between letting Sol have fun and keeping him safe. I'm overprotective at heart too and it would be so easy not to let him go swimming (there may be a broken bottle in the water), to never let him run loose in woodland in case a poacher accidentally shot him. I seriously could be quite neurotic and dream up some ludicrously obscure scenarios to fret about but I do have to let him have fun as well as keeping him safe - working out this fun/freedom/confidence/safety balance with children must be a million times more difficult. I know that I'd find it impossible which is why I take my hat off to parents who get it right and accounts in large part for my decision not to become a mother.

 

they were with a group of people (and could have shared babysitting between the group and had an adult with the children) and then the fact that they were rich and would have been able to afford a babysitter at any time!!

Further to my comments above, I think that if the McCanns genuinely believed that there was no risk in leaving the children, the very act of letting them be alone in the knowledge that adults were close by ought to have been a positive one. If kids think there's something so frightening about the world that they need constant supervision, it will be. As things turned out the tragedy probably wouldn't have occurred had an adult been in the room with them, but then again, if someone is determined to abduct a child - seriously determined - the presence of a woman might have made no difference anyway.

 

It seems likely that Maddie was deliberately targeted as the other children were not taken. Further to being more safety conscious on the night in question, should the McCanns have been looking about them previously during their holiday for signs of suspicious characters?

 

If the McCanns wanted to do good,I would have thought having a campaign highlighting the need for parents to be close to their children.

I think I'm a reasonably decent human being but I'm afraid that altrusim at this point would be impossible for me; I'd be (selfishly?) thinking of nothing else but trying to get Maddie back. A lot of us here are hoping with all our hearts that Saluki Teddy will be reunited with his owners as quickly as possible. How much thought and effort would we be according to Teddy and his owners if our own dog went missing this afternoon? When the chips are down, instinct takes over and whilst it's not a very nice thought, it is human nature to "look after number one" in extreme circumstances. Not nice but not wrong.

 

Yeap that exactly what I feel. Who gives a fig about your 'reputation' when your child is missing?

Perhaps as they feel so helpless this gives them something tangible to deal with, something definite to focus on? The position of needing to grieve yet not being able to must be awful and this might be an outlet.

 

I'm really not arguing either pro/anti the actions of the McCanns, all I'm saying is that I don't think any of us could possibly know what we'd do were we in the same position and a lot of what they've done can be quite easily explained. We all make mistakes and with the benefit of hindsight, the McCanns may feel that the Maddie Fund and their level of involvement with the media might not have been such a good idea. Then again, if it transpires that these things have helped and Maddie is found safe and well, I don't suppose either they or anyone else will think it was anything less than the best way they could possibly have handled things; it'll be regarded as exactly the right thing to have done. Let's just hope for that happy outcome (but I will be very angry indeed if the McCanns profit in any way or become celebrities as a result of what's happened).

 

edited to say that I'm never quick enough for the edit button so apologies in advance for appalling grammar and spelling