KathyM Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Well - what a shock - I was going to come back with Autarky ingredients and: http://www.autarky-foods.com/dog-adult.asp Is it me or have they changed completely from when it first arrived on the shelves? I had to take Dharma off it because it contained high amounts of rice (where's the rice now?) but I continued to sing it's praises because it was "natural" as far as dry foods go. Well it's not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ailsas mum Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 You don't get presentation or marketing with CSJ - just a bag of reasonably priced dog food. I'm sure some of their food is good but on looking at the web site you are still getting '' cereals'' they buy whatever is cheapest on the market at the time so the ingredients of the food will be changing all the time, they also have BHA and BHT in their food which as I have already said might cause cancer and I for one will not take that risk. I am also someone who wouldn't feed Hills. Terri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyM Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 To be fair Terri - a lot of pet owners in the US are now up in arms over the quality of even listed ingredients - rice for one. Contamination with melamine from cheap sources (in foods across the board, not just cheap ones) is causing poisoning in dogs. It's not just the companies who list "cereals" that are using cheap cr*p in their foods. I'm not sure why you would think that expensive brands use better ingredients as a rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendbert Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Having looked at the list of ingredients on the Dr John's Silver, this is what it says on the bag: Cereals Vegetable protein extracts Meat and animal derivatives (min 4% chicken) Minerals Oils Fats Contains antioxidants BHA and BHT Protein - 18% Oils & Fats - 6% Fibre - 2.5% Ash - 6% Vitamin A - 8,000 iu/kg Vitamin D - 800 iu/kg Vitamin E - 80 mg/kg Copper (as cupric sulphate) - 15 mg/kg I've emailed them this morning to ask what the 'meat and animal derivatives' are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 [quote name='cycas' date='Apr 25 2007, 09:12 AM' post='447454'I can definitely understand Terri's point of view on costs, though I think there is an argument that the major cost with dog food is less the ingredients and more the presentation and marketing. You don't get presentation or marketing with CSJ - just a bag of reasonably priced dog food. I am sure their marketing budget is a lot smaller than that of, say, Pedigree, and that the ingredients probably get more of a share of the budget as a result. But I'm equally sure that their packaging is professionally designed, they have a network of stockists that they need to manage and provide with information as well as stock, they have a professionally designed website with an online shop which I think is custom built: very likely they have printed materials about their foods as well. They sponsor working dog events. They probably employ at least one person to organise all this stuff, I would guess more than one. None of this stuff comes free, and all of it is marketing. That's not a bad thing: if they didn't spend money on that sort of thing they probably would not remain in business for very long, but the fact remains that for any commercially made 'complete' product, the price of the pack pays for a lot more than just the ingredients and manufacturing costs. Thing is, complete foods are so much more convenient. If I had nothing else to do with my time, I might feed home-cooked with some raw bones, but I just don't have the time or energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batmobile Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 I am not sure why what it says on the Autarky packet is bad?! There are no colourings and unnatural stuff in there?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LurcherGirl Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 I'm sure some of their food is good but on looking at the web site you are still getting '' cereals'' they buy whatever is cheapest on the market at the time so the ingredients of the food will be changing all the time, they also have BHA and BHT in their food which as I have already said might cause cancer and I for one will not take that risk. I am also someone who wouldn't feed Hills. Terri If you check their newsletter, you will find that all artificial preservatives (BHA and BHT) have now been taken out from all the foods bar one range. I think if you contact Ceri from CSJ you will find that the ingredient lists on the website might not be 100% up-to-date at the moment. Vera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyM Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 EC or EEC permitted anti-oxidants often is code for BHT, BHA, ethoxyquin, etc. Sadly, that's the same for the food I'm using at the moment, but when I saw Autarky had dropped rice out of their food I was hopeful we could put these two on it (Autarky has always professed to be naturally preserved), until I read further down and saw they've started adding that bit of text to the ingredients. I have emailed them to confirm what they mean by those, so hopefully the worry's over nothing, although I have to doubt it given experience with other companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melp Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Do your dogs actually like Autarky or CSJ? I've had mine on Burgess supapoo for years because Cisco couldn't tolerate anything, and I mean anything else. None of the dogs like it though and now Cisco has gone I'm thinking of changing to something else. I can't get Dr Johns down here for some reason but think Kennelgate stock CSJ. I just don't want to feed them something they hate or I end up having to add so many extras to it they might as well not have it. Protein levels have to be low for Foodog and none of them are active dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudi Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Thing is, complete foods are so much more convenient. If I had nothing else to do with my time, I might feed home-cooked with some raw bones, but I just don't have the time or energy. What do you mean by home-cooked Like a home-made biscuit or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merledogs Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 (edited) Mel mine much preferred the taste of CSJ to Autarky (but I have only had them on the Command Performance, not the other ones) Ceri will usually send you out some samples if you contact her. Edited April 25, 2007 by madmerle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loobie Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Mel, CJ and Ash absolutely love the CSJ Champ and eat it with gusto with nothing added into it at all if CJ is having an ill day he will have some warm water added to bring out the meaty aroma. It is the only food they have eaten without picking at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merledogs Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 What do you mean by home-cooked Like a home-made biscuit or something? I home cook for my dogs, as does Yantan and several others - see this thread Home cooking doesn't take up a major amount of time. I feed a mixture of Burns Fish and Rice and home cooked stuff, which I make a huge pot of once or twice a week, then freeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 What do you mean by home-cooked Like a home-made biscuit or something? Personally I think I'd want to go for a rather more varied diet than once-a-week stew. If I had time and energy to always cook myself a decent balanced diet, then I'd be inclined to have the dogs share that*. The reason I'd go for cooked rather than a fully raw diet is that having read up on how raw fed animals can carry and transmit salmonella and e coli bacteria, I don't think I'd trust myself to be careful enough with washing hands and so on. I am a slob. * but not the cats: cats need taurine which is destroyed by cooking (which is why commercial cooked catmeat has added taurine), and of course much more meat. I don't think I would feel confident to either make cooked food for my cats, or raw feed them. Hmm, I think we may have drifted OT a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyM Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Do your dogs actually like Autarky or CSJ? I've had mine on Burgess supapoo for years because Cisco couldn't tolerate anything, and I mean anything else. None of the dogs like it though and now Cisco has gone I'm thinking of changing to something else. I can't get Dr Johns down here for some reason but think Kennelgate stock CSJ. I just don't want to feed them something they hate or I end up having to add so many extras to it they might as well not have it. Protein levels have to be low for Foodog and none of them are active dogs. Dharma used to loooove Autarky, but that was before the change in their ingredients, so to be honest I don't know on that one now. She went crackers for the sample of TurDucKen (TDK) from CSJ, so it didn't live up to it's name!! I think to be honest I'm going to have to look into raw for these two now, or maybe switch to dry and raw (not together), I dunno. To do raw full time I'll need a huge budget and a new freezer, so I've been humming and haaing for a while - the cheaper meat suppliers require a £50 minimum order and without knowing anyone locally who wants to share one, it's put me off til now - although £50s worth would last aaages, it's still a lot for me personally to pay out in one go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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