Kathyw Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Andrew Lloyd weber says that many of his musicals (with Tim Rice) would not have been allowed had he wrote them today. Whatever you think of his music many, many people have enjoyed them and that would have been lost to them had pc been around in the days when we were sensible. One of my friends is an avowed aetheist yet Jesus Christ Superstar was her fav and she must have seen it a dozen times possibly more but the title alone would have caused problems if it was written today. Do you agree with ALW? Is freedom of speech being choked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranirottie Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 (edited) yes I do think so. There are lots of things that I think are silly. Such as kids being not allowed to sing Baa Baa Black Sheep etc. The sheep is the colour black so what is wrong with saying black. It is not an offensive word and not in the least to do with anyones race! And one that REALLY gets my goat is Chrisdingle For hundreds of years we have had Christmas festivals,other religions have names for them and have sensibly not changed them. Some celebrate Ramadam,not Ramadamadingle! I am afraid I dont know many celebrations but I think you get my drift. If you ask people of other religions if they object to our celebrations /customs the vast majority do not. We all have our own cultures/religions and should be free to celebrate them how we wish in the privacy of our own homes and churches. I do not agree with racism ie: the abuse or persecution of other races just because of their colour,creed,religion etc but I think this country has gone way ott with its pc. We are British,live in Britain and therefore should be allowed to carry on our British way of life. If people come to this country I believe that they should accept and try to adapt to our culture in public life, the same as i would expect to respect and adapt to the culture of any other country that I lived in. What anyone does in private is their own business and no one elses. I do not believe that someone in their own country should adapt their ways to suit another, accept and welcome them but not change century old customs for fear of offence that is usually very exaggerated by politicians. I have plenty more to say but will stop now and listen to other opinions.x Edited September 9, 2008 by ranirottie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted September 9, 2008 Report Share Posted September 9, 2008 Excellent post Cher! I think more people are becoming racist or xenophobic because of all this pc malarkey than the other way around. And on the other hand there are those whole blatantly abuse our 'excuse-us-for-existing' policies by crying out every single time they don't get their way, like a bunch of spoilt brats I used to be very pc, but I've become less and less pc because of all of this nonsense. I've said before, I used to travel a lot. Whenever I went to a country I would inform myself about at least the basics on culture and customs, and didn't expect to get any preferential treatment because I was a tourist/of a different background. I really don't see why then a country like Britain needs to bend over backwards trying to avoid offending those of a different background by, for instance, calling Christmas chrisdinlgemajig! I'm not religious at all, and couldn't care less whether we celebrated christmas or not. What I take offence of, is that this part of a western country's western culture is basically being hidden away, so as to not offend other, imported cultures! The worst thing of it all is, that nobody of those cultures is likely to have ever expressed being offended by British people expressing their culture in their own country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtychicken Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 I don't understand what the problem with Christingle is My family and I are not religious, but we have attended the Christingle service at our local church on Christmas Eve for many years now. It is a service aimed at the children and they love it. According to Wiki, Christingle started in Germany in 1747 and was introduced to the UK in 1968 Christingle Wiki Page . Have I missed something monumental in why it is a problem now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.eyed.dog Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 What Billymalc and Rainierottie said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 As far as I know, songs such as Baa Baa Black Sheep aren't banned. One or two councils (foolishly) took the decision to ban its use in local nurseries, though one decision, at least, was subsequently overturned - but there's no nationwide ban. I don't understand what the problem with Christingle is My family and I are not religious, but we have attended the Christingle service at our local church on Christmas Eve for many years now. It is a service aimed at the children and they love it. According to Wiki, Christingle started in Germany in 1747 and was introduced to the UK in 1968 Christingle Wiki Page . Have I missed something monumental in why it is a problem now? I don't understand that either. Christingle is just a particular Christmas service, isn't it? What's been changed? Much of what we worry about is based on hearsay and rumour. The tabloids just love to stir up trouble, so if one council makes a stupid decision about nursery rhymes, say, it's reported as if it were a nationwide ban - and before you know it, we all believe it. Finally, the 'British culture' or 'British way of life' one is a concept I find hard. What do we mean by it? What exactly are we afraid of losing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel n Hardy Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 (edited) Yes, we have become far too PC in this country, driven mainly by those small minded self serving individuals who have appointed themselves champions and guardians and feel they have look after us as we are incapable of it Happily i am very un-pc now go pop the kettle on and duck Edited September 10, 2008 by Laurel n Hardy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusewalker Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 never ever heard of chrisingle. or chrisdingle never heard anyone use those words before today what we should do is just remove any religious ceromonies from the state calendar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 As far as I know, songs such as Baa Baa Black Sheep aren't banned. One or two councils (foolishly) took the decision to ban its use in local nurseries, though one decision, at least, was subsequently overturned - but there's no nationwide ban. I don't understand that either. Christingle is just a particular Christmas service, isn't it? What's been changed? Much of what we worry about is based on hearsay and rumour. The tabloids just love to stir up trouble, so if one council makes a stupid decision about nursery rhymes, say, it's reported as if it were a nationwide ban - and before you know it, we all believe it. Finally, the 'British culture' or 'British way of life' one is a concept I find hard. What do we mean by it? What exactly are we afraid of losing? I think what I find annoying - and I've already said this on a different thread - is things like the Red Cross telling their charity shops to not put up christmas decorations, for fear of offending people. For chrissake (bad pun not intended! ), we've been having christmas in this country (and other parts of the world!) for donkeys years, why on earth should something that is in itself harmless and enjoyed by so many people be toned down or even ignored for fear of offending people of a different persuasion? While, if I protest against ritual slaughter in "celebration" of Eid, they won't stop that but I'm being called racist (probably by the same do-gooders as those who wanted to ban Baa Baa Black Sheep )! Can't win if you're white and western, can ya? I actually consider it a form of inverted racism to want to change things like the above, as you're implying that non-white people or those with a different religion are less tolerant. Because those same do-gooders want white westerners to be tolerant of otehr religions and customs! I actually know of a former colleague whose little girl (mixed race) went to nursery. She wanted to sing Baa Baa Black sheep, but was called that it was Baa Baa woolly sheep! I've heard some other do-gooders also protesting against the "black cab", because that was racist! Huh??? Would you reckon a black cab is of lesser quality than a white cab then or what? The thing is a cab, and its original colour is or used to be black. What else do you wanna make of it? What I'm saying is that the painstaking efforts of a minority to appease to all people has as an effect that they make matters worse for everyone. If you settle in a country with different customs and celebrations than your own, you should not be expected to join in and leave your own identity behind. Neither should you be offended and protest - as long as the custom or whatever is harmless. I'm sure that what I've just written can be interpreted as racist and intolerant by those who want to perceive it as such. I can only say that I do not perceive myself to be either one or the other. What I expect from anyone, regardless of race, religion or opinion - getting it is a different story! - is mutual respect and consideration. Now if that makes me racist and intolerant then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 I think what I find annoying - and I've already said this on a different thread - is things like the Red Cross telling their charity shops to not put up christmas decorations, for fear of offending people. But the topic is "Is Britain too pc?" - all I'm saying is that while individual charities, nurseries, councils etc may display overly-pc behaviour, we can hardly blame the whole of Britain. It's not as if we've been told, as a nation, to abolish Christmas. I'm not quite sure why you quoted my post, to be honest. I agree with most of what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 But the topic is "Is Britain too pc?" - all I'm saying is that while individual charities, nurseries, councils etc may display overly-pc behaviour, we can hardly blame the whole of Britain. It's not as if we've been told, as a nation, to abolish Christmas. I'm not quite sure why you quoted my post, to be honest. I agree with most of what you say. You posted a couple of questions, to which I posted the answers in my opinion. Maybe not very well. No argument intended! Thing is though, although they might be individual nurseries and charities, in the case of the charity being the Red Cross, it's a bloody big one and many people will a big charity's stance to heart, for better or worse. And how many individual nurseries are there that go OTT in their quest to 'PC-fy' (for want of a better word - I quite like this one! ) the little ones in their care? Just remember that mass opinion is made up of a lot of individuals, and in my opinion, any vote that the BNP gets, because people feel that their own traditions are being threatened, is one too many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 What I'm saying is that the painstaking efforts of a minority to appease to all people has as an effect that they make matters worse for everyone. I think you are probably right there - and I do wonder if some of these decisions play right into the hands of the likes of the BNP, giving them ammunition to their arguments. I don't believe myself to be racist and I don't quite honestly give a stuff what colour someone is, or what religious beliefs they have/don't have, just whether or not they are a decent person. However I do think sometimes this "PC stuff" goes a bit too far - and I do wonder who benefits and whether the intended beneficiaries actually cared in the first place. I recently read this article on the BBC site: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7593764.stm - now I appreciate this is the media and they don't always like to report the facts but I wonder who decided to ask non-muslims to be "sensitive" towards muslim colleagues during Ramadan. I wonder if the same person that made that decision also thought it would be wise to ask the meat eaters to show sensitivity to eating meat infront of vegetarian/vegan colleagues for example, given how strongly many veggies/vegans feel about their beliefs. I'm betting they didn't. I also wonder how much the media plays on this kind of thing and what its motive is for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 I don't understand what the problem with Christingle is nor me? Christingle is not a politically correct word for Christmas. It's a word for a decorated orange and a candle, handed out at a pre-Christmas service. It's no more a substitute for Christmas than a christmas tree or card is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 nor me? Christingle is not a politically correct word for Christmas. It's a word for a decorated orange and a candle, handed out at a pre-Christmas service. It's no more a substitute for Christmas than a christmas tree or card is. I'd thought it was something to do with an orange too - and not a new "PC" term. That was about as far as my thoughts got on that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murtle Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 AFAIK the Red Cross shouldn't celebrate any religious event, as they are supposed to be impartial and neutral, I didn't think this was a recent thing though. I've not heard of any problems with Christingles, more likely to be a health and safety problem somewhere with lit candles in peoples hands!! I think a lot of it is generated by the media to sell papers. I was working in Lambeth when they supposedly banned Christmas, yet they had Happy Christmas banners on the local council offices....it didn't make sense. Unfortunately I think we are all very wary now about what is said and how it can be taken which is a shame. I love going abroad where people can actually laugh at themselves and take the piddle out of each other for what ever reason they want to. PC-ness is destroying humour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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