raiye Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 After reading an article in a doggy magazine about the number of dogs PTS in Georgia, USA, and also the greyhound racing thread and considering the number of dogs PTS for health reasons from poor/over breeding, plus the sheer volume of 'unwanted'. Then sitting in my docs office and reading the signs for the number of missed appointments. Do you think it would make a difference to dog welfare in general, if the numbers of animals PTS were openly admitted and more visible. eg, a sign at the vets, written in local papers? If folks could see the sheer enormity of it, would it make a difference? Would they think twice before letting little 'Fifi' have just one litter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhound pal Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 (edited) I think some can be educated but others have the lack of conscience/savvy which means they'll keep breeding because they don't/won't see that reproducing from their dog is making the issue worse. The pts figures are published each year in the press but in reality, its not good 'press'. One thing I wanted to post during the racing other breeds at greyhound tracks thread but didn't know how to be tactful (apologies in advance!) was that I think perhaps people don't relate it to their own breed - I think very few people with a rescue greyhound, for example, would consider breeding from it on the basis they are mass bred. I dont' imagine your average, say labrador owner would have the same 'conscience' because there aren't the same numbers being pts (saying labs because it was first dog to pop into my head and am aware there are several labradors in rescue!) - or rather the same high profile of the issue What I'm trying to say is that you become more sensitised to your own breed I suppose - if you get what I mean? Edited August 1, 2008 by greyhound pal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I think some can be educated but others have the lack of conscience/savvy which means they'll keep breeding because they don't/won't see that reproducing from their dog is making the issue worse. I agree. I am sure some just are generally ignorant of the facts and I wonder how many see the Dogs Trust etc (am not knocking them at all) advertising on TV saying they don't pts healthy dogs and don't realise that thousands of dogs are still pts each year. I also agree there are others that don't give a stuff about dogs dying and will breed because they want the money. I think there's a third group, what I would term the responsible breeders, who breed good dogs from good dogs and sell to good homes. They are opposed to puppy farmers and other bad breeders - and if the good guys stopped breeding, we'd only have the bad guys churning out dogs. One thing I wanted to post during the racing other breeds at greyhound tracks thread but didn't know how to be tactful (apologies in advance!) was that I think perhaps people don't relate it to their own breed - I think very few people with a rescue greyhound, for example, would consider breeding from it on the basis they are mass bred. I dont' imagine your average, say labrador owner would have the same 'conscience' because there aren't the same numbers being pts (saying labs because it was first dog to pop into my head and am aware there are several labradors in rescue!) - or rather the same high profile of the issue What I'm trying to say is that you become more sensitised to your own breed I suppose - if you get what I mean? I think greyhounds are a bit of an unusual case aren't they, in that if you are out and meet someone with a greyhound as a pet, it's likely to be a rescue of some sort (ie direct from trainer, RGT, grey/lurcher rescue) - or am I talking rubbish? I don't think I've ever met anyone with a greyhound that bought the dog from a good breeder as a pup is what I mean - though the show type might be different, I don't know much about them. I would say, as a lab owner, that even with the large number of labs in rescue, the majority are still bought as puppies from breeders (some 47,000 lab pups were registered with the KC in 2007 and the unregistered are thought to be around the same, so that's possibly not far off 100,000 lab pups born in the UK last year). I think you are probably right that many of those owners won't have the same awareness of and/or involvement in rescue as greyhound owners that have mostly rescued their dogs. I am all for the public knowing in more obvious detail how many dogs lost their lives last year in the hope some will be discouraged from breeding and some will consider adopting a dog from rescue. I gather there was an RSPCA poster campaign once that featured a pile of dead dogs - sounds horrific and I gather it was withdrawn because of complaints, but I bet it would have made people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhound pal Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Wasn't it someone on here that wanted to do the 8,000 empty dog bowls somewhere to highlight this? I'm a bit of a cynic today because I very gently tried to speak to someone who had previously bred their dog and wanted a new puppy. Even got them to look at the nearest breed rescue website. As gently as I tried, she definitely didn't see the connection between her breeding from her dog and the numbers of that breed in a local rescue who are very near to where she lives yet she wasn't aware they existed. She came into the 'lack of savvy' category and I really believe she'll just end up either breeding another litter or going out and buying a pup. I doubt she'll ever get it. I was gentle but tbh if I'd used a sledgehammer, she still wouldn't have 'got it'. Depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhound pal Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Sorry I can't stop myself! I think greyhounds are a bit of an unusual case aren't they, in that if you are out and meet someone with a greyhound as a pet, it's likely to be a rescue of some sort (ie direct from trainer, RGT, grey/lurcher rescue) - or am I talking rubbish? Yes its quite amazing when you consider how frequently you hear about those great fabby trainers/owners who keep their greyhounds once they've finished racing them yet you never actually MEET them and the hounds they've kept for the rest of their natural Yes Ange - greys are the extreme which is why I think we find greyhound people very vocal about this kind of issue because its close to home for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I have never had a greyhound and know only a couple but even in the seventies I was against racing because I thought it was wrong - I knew nothing then of the suffering and overbreeding - just the thought that people made money from animals racing and getting hurt was enough for me. Today on life of grime was a woman living near vicki park. she had four dogs and the neighbours complained about the smell. Long story - short. Animal wardens gets involved. Then woman gets a kitten and sticks it in the bathroom. Animal warden wanted to take kitten to spey her. Woman says 'no way, kittens sells for £80.00 each' Animal warden took the kitten but there is nothing to stop the woman buyi g another kitten. What they should have said to the imbesile was that if she bred any animal and sold it her benefits would be stopped because she had unearned income from the animals.The woman said she loved animals - yea right. The only way some of the imbesile with animals are going to get the message is to use a sledgehammer to bang in the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiye Posted August 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 The only way some of the imbesile with animals are going to get the message is to use a sledgehammer to bang in the message. Staffies are a huge problem round here. I visited at WAWs latest nuetering meet a couple of weekends ago, and every person that came in with a staff had plans for breeding No matter how many times they were told of the numbers being PTS or in rescue, it didnt matter. Their dogs were not going to be like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 That is why we need laws - strong, enforceable laws because imbesiles will never make the connection for themselves so the government has to do it for them. Why should animals suffer because of stupid people? The 'well they are not all the ticket' excuse doesn't cut it here - animals suffer and if 'they are not all the ticket' then they should not be allowed to have unneutered animals. I have heard many times 'Oh no my dogs pups will not end up like that, I am making sure they get good homes, they are like my grandchildren'. What utter rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fee Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 I think there's a third group, what I would term the responsible breeders, who breed good dogs from good dogs and sell to good homes. They are opposed to puppy farmers and other bad breeders - and if the good guys stopped breeding, we'd only have the bad guys churning out dogs. I do agree that there are 'breeders' and 'breeders' and I think the message has to be targeted to some extent to be effective. While we have mass commercial breeders and puppy farms churning out badly-bred dogs in huge numbers it's extremely difficult to convince people that their carefully bred and rehomed litter is contributing to the problem. To be honest I have a lot of sympathy with that view. There will always be people who want to buy puppies. Educating them to go to good breeders and making them aware of puppy farming and commercial outlets is probably going to be more effective than stigmatising all breeders as evil dog dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Sledge hammers rarely work, the moment you start making people think they are "bad" or "stupid" or "ignorant" or any of the negative words that they do NOT associate with themselves then you have lost them - I should know cos thats me to a "T" don't try "guilting" me cos I am far more likely to dig my heels in and dismiss everything thats said and write the person off saying it as "tosser" or as some rabid activist, this applies whatever the subject even if I actually DO know that maybe theres some sense in what I am being told - classic examples from me to illustrate ... recently I have been at the Dr's as most of you know, what I didn't say was that Dr said "we will need to have a little talk about your smoking" and my reply was "you must really enjoy wasting your time then..." now I'm not stupid, I do know the dangers and the risks, but I choose not to hear the message because I am sick of it... daft attitude? Probably but thats me... similarily back in the days when I was actually trying to lose weight I once upon a time went to weight watchers and one week I put on a 1lb rather than losing, now there was a bloody good reason why I did but thats besides the point... during the meeting the lady running it told everyone there I'd gained weight and told me to stand up and then proceeded to tell me she expected me to lose 2lb next week to make up for it.... did this inspire me to meet the target? Nope - I went straight out and bought a bag of chips and with every one I ate I was spiteing her... again I know damned well the only one who paid for that was me but thats not the way I function Point being you wanna influence me, then do so by treating me with a bit of respect, by treading softly, drip feeding me, lead me, never ever EVER dictate to me or TELL me - be passionate about your subject by all means but never rant AT me and the moment you make me feel like you are judging me and finding me not living up to your standards you have lost the battle. This is where many many campaigns lose their audience - cos theres one hell of a lot of people out there just like me ...and it's those people you need to reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudi Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Sledge hammers rarely work, the moment you start making people think they are "bad" or "stupid" or "ignorant" or any of the negative words that they do NOT associate with themselves then you have lost them - I should know cos thats me to a "T" don't try "guilting" me cos I am far more likely to dig my heels in and dismiss everything thats said and write the person off saying it as "tosser" or as some rabid activist, this applies whatever the subject even if I actually DO know that maybe theres some sense in what I am being told - classic examples from me to illustrate ... recently I have been at the Dr's as most of you know, what I didn't say was that Dr said "we will need to have a little talk about your smoking" and my reply was "you must really enjoy wasting your time then..." now I'm not stupid, I do know the dangers and the risks, but I choose not to hear the message because I am sick of it... daft attitude? Probably but thats me... similarily back in the days when I was actually trying to lose weight I once upon a time went to weight watchers and one week I put on a 1lb rather than losing, now there was a bloody good reason why I did but thats besides the point... during the meeting the lady running it told everyone there I'd gained weight and told me to stand up and then proceeded to tell me she expected me to lose 2lb next week to make up for it.... did this inspire me to meet the target? Nope - I went straight out and bought a bag of chips and with every one I ate I was spiteing her... again I know damned well the only one who paid for that was me but thats not the way I function Point being you wanna influence me, then do so by treating me with a bit of respect, by treading softly, drip feeding me, lead me, never ever EVER dictate to me or TELL me - be passionate about your subject by all means but never rant AT me and the moment you make me feel like you are judging me and finding me not living up to your standards you have lost the battle. This is where many many campaigns lose their audience - cos theres one hell of a lot of people out there just like me ...and it's those people you need to reach. Brilliant post! Think we might be related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mop Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Staffies are a huge problem round here.I visited at WAWs latest nuetering meet a couple of weekends ago, and every person that came in with a staff had plans for breeding No matter how many times they were told of the numbers being PTS or in rescue, it didnt matter. Their dogs were not going to be like that! I had a phone call the other day from a lady who wanted a dog, she had a 15 month old Sh** zoo bitcj who wasn't neutered. Another rescue had put the phone down on her when she told them her bitch wasn't neutered but there are times when not spaying a bitch is the responsible way because of health problems. I asked her if she intended getting her bitch neutered, she wanted a litter off her first, many people are asking for a pup. She was surprised to find that they are now coming into rescue but it didn't matter, she was in daily contact with the breeder who is encouraging her. I asked if her dog had been shown and what health tests had been done, silence, then I can't show because I am the only carer for my husband, he is very disabled, he needs a hoist to move him, and no health tests have been done. I asked if she knew the risks to her dog if she had a little, yes, she had researched about this, having the theory is very different to the experience I pointed out and as your husband is disabled, do you really think you can cope with so may puppies running round. Again silence. She then said that a friend, who is into a breed rescue was trying to find a dog for her which shocked me. No responsible rescue will rehome a dog to you if you intend to breed from your dog. I was told that her puppies had nothing to do with me, which my reply was, "When they come into rescue it is us that has to pay out hard earned money neutering, vaccinating and microchipping the pups that you bred. She hung up on me so hopefully the message got through. I was quite polite to her all the time, 'onest. I am sure that many of these owners who just want 1 litter of puppies think that none will end up in rescue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhound pal Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Sledge hammers rarely work, the moment you start making people think they are "bad" or "stupid" or "ignorant" or any of the negative words that they do NOT associate with themselves then you have lost them - I should know cos thats me to a "T" don't try "guilting" me cos I am far more likely to dig my heels in and dismiss everything thats said and write the person off saying it as "tosser" or as some rabid activist, this applies whatever the subject even if I actually DO know that maybe theres some sense in what I am being told - classic examples from me to illustrate ... recently I have been at the Dr's as most of you know, what I didn't say was that Dr said "we will need to have a little talk about your smoking" and my reply was "you must really enjoy wasting your time then..." now I'm not stupid, I do know the dangers and the risks, but I choose not to hear the message because I am sick of it... daft attitude? Probably but thats me... similarily back in the days when I was actually trying to lose weight I once upon a time went to weight watchers and one week I put on a 1lb rather than losing, now there was a bloody good reason why I did but thats besides the point... during the meeting the lady running it told everyone there I'd gained weight and told me to stand up and then proceeded to tell me she expected me to lose 2lb next week to make up for it.... did this inspire me to meet the target? Nope - I went straight out and bought a bag of chips and with every one I ate I was spiteing her... again I know damned well the only one who paid for that was me but thats not the way I function Point being you wanna influence me, then do so by treating me with a bit of respect, by treading softly, drip feeding me, lead me, never ever EVER dictate to me or TELL me - be passionate about your subject by all means but never rant AT me and the moment you make me feel like you are judging me and finding me not living up to your standards you have lost the battle. This is where many many campaigns lose their audience - cos theres one hell of a lot of people out there just like me ...and it's those people you need to reach. Completely agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiye Posted August 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Completely agree with you Snow But if the numbers were more viewable? Maybe just posters in a 'did you know' fashion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyhound pal Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Why not try it and see if any of your local vets/pet shops will put up a poster? Easy enough to design online But do be careful with the wording - I know when we did out greyhound leaflets they were a nightmare because you can't say things like 'Don't go to greyhound racing' because I am also one of these people who hates being told what to do and frequently do the opposite if I think someone elses opinion is being forced down my throat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts