Kathyw Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) This link was sent to me by Pea Horsley. Yes I know he is selling something but before you get to that bit, please read what he says about vaccs/food etc. And specifically about Rimidyl. vetlink Edited May 30, 2008 by Kathyw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyMalc Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Andrew Jones is not the only one to come out with 'shocking news' like this. Martin Goldstein, another vet with 20+ years of practice and his own very expensive clinic in the US has written a book on the same lines. Then there is "Food Pets Die Fo" - got that as well, but forgotten who it's written by, and there various other publications. Personally, after having read things like this for a few years now (we've got our own Catherine O'Driscoll, who's coming from the same school of thought, and Chris Day the founder of the BAHVS), I've found myself being stuck on the fence a bit. Vaccinations: Totally agree on that one. Malcolm was never vaccinated again after he got his booster before coming to the UK. Considering everything he'd survived already I didn't think it was in his interest to pump his body full with chemicals every year. Dogs in the shelter in Greece weren't vaccinated, simply because we didn't have the time and (above all!) money. They were vacced when they left us though. Funnily enough we never had huge outbreaks of diseases - one bout of kennel cough that affected about 20 dogs is the most severe thing that I can remember. We didn't have the facilities to quarantine all of them, so it was a matter of treating and hoping that it wouldn't spread too badly. We had 150-160 dogs in at that time, and not one died or was left with serious complications as a result of kennel cough. As Mal is now seriously ill, there is no point at all in vaccinating him again, so he won't be. When I got Kiera I had her vacced with a complete booster, because it was unlikely that she'd ever been done before. She was then not vacced for a couple of years because I was on the same train of thought with regards to chemicals and poisons. However, I wanted to do flyball with her (after having been to 4 dog training clubs, onlly one of which asked to see a vacs certificate!), and try some other activities, and figured that it would then be a requirement that she was vacced, so had her done again. She's completely healthy, so I figured that her body could take it and that there was a benefit to be had in terms of being able to take part in activities, which would be an improvement in her quality of life. My vet at least now seems to come round to the idea of vaccing every 3 years rather than every year, come November we'll see how far things have developed. Nutrition: As far as I'm concerned most pet food isn't good enough for Mal and Kiera, and "specialised veterinary pet food" is a great marketing ploy and evil stuff. My friend's dog nearly died whilst on "specialised liver diet" @ £2+ a tin and only survived because she was given a bowl of porridge with banana as a last desperate measure! She lived another 3 years. Many of these vets will advise a BARF diet instead though, which seems to be a controversy in itself. I once read that the UK's oldest dog, a 28 year old collie called Bramble, was fed a diet of rice, vegetables and lentils, and had been fed this for years. Is good enough for us! Meds: I can see where this vet is coming from, and I'm sad to say that I've known about one dog who died as a result of overmedicating (RIP little Frankie ). However, I guess it's a matter of weighing up pros and cons. Many meds will have long term effects, so it's up to us as owners to be aware of what we're giving our dogs and how long for and to closely monitor our dogs and look for signs other than the original 'complaint'. Mal has been on antibiotics off and on for the last few months. I used to be very wary of this and very concerned about what this would do to his immune system. Mal is doing absolutely amazing at the moment though, and let's face it, as much as I would not want to have to be parted with him for the rest of our lives, he hasn't got that long any more. There is a chance that the disease will kill him before the side effects of any medication do. I keep him on an as healthy diet as I possibly can, and try to give him the best quality of life by going out for long walks, using the fact that he has got the energy and is enjoying himself. I think what many animal owners will need to do is become more informed and take responsibility, and not leave everything up to the vets without questioning anything. A few months ago my then vet conceded that she relied on my information as much as I relied on hers! I found that a bit unnerving I have to say, but it is true that owners see their dogs day in day out, while the vet only sees a glimpse of them for 10 or so minutes. I'm sorry if I've bored you all to pieces with this massive post (I guess if you were that bored you'd already sighed a deep sigh and scrolled down though ), but it's something that is incredibly close to my heart and something that I've lived with for over a year now. Mal is very ill, and his case doesn't fit into any of the boxes: he's got cancer despite not having been vaccinated, he's got a healthy diet (apparently) but you won't find any info about it in any book, he is on medication because I want to give him the best possible chance, and I'm too chicken to go it alone without someone who has got scientific knowledge about animals. Veterinary science however is at a loss, because no one has ever treated a dog with the combination of the 2 illnesses that Mal's got. They're both incurable, and treatment for both of them couldn't be more at odds with eachother if you tried - but so far my combination of alternative stuff and their medication seems to be what keeps my boy going. 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estweyn Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 I found your post interesting BillyMalc and must say I am going down pretty much the same path myself. When Josh became ill in Feb of this year again with runs and vet gave him yet another dose of antibiotics and anti inflammatories I began to wonder what was happening with a young 'healthy' dog of 4. Once off the meds and introduced back to his dried food he was off again, extremely runny motions. At the time he was on Burns which is reported to be produced by a vet and suitable for dodgy tums etc. I did a lot of research on the net and took advice from friends with gsds who have had similar problems and changed him to Barf. I was horrified when I found so much evidence about the commercially prepared dried foods, the contents of them and the effects on dogs. And it did make sense, years ago we fed raw tripe and wholemeal mixer biscuit and our dogs seemed to ail very little. But with my last dog Shadow and Josh its been nothing but vet visits and problems. And speaking to others this does seem common. Josh however again got the runs and upon insisting upon blood and pooh tests rather than yet more antibiotics and anti inflammatories it was found he has hepititis. He is much better now and awaiting final blood tests. He is on antibiotics now to help with the complaint, however, I am really concerned as to how he got this when he is fully vaccinated, I contacted the maker of the vaccine and they will not comment and told me to take the matter up with my vet, which I fully intend to do. Speaking with friends on another site it is apparent that is is quite common for dogs to react to vaccines and develop low grade parvo or a form of hepatitis. So I dont feel I have confidence to vaccinate again. Josh does not go to dog shows or training clubs, he does walk the local park and other open areas but I try to keep him from the normal local dog exercise areas. Once over this I intend building his immune system up homeopathically. I hope we never have to have antibiotics again, but who knows. Regarding food, he is stick thin, from 45kl to 33 kl in a matter of weeks so I had to get weight on him. I found a food recommended on the pages of this site suitable for sensitive tums (Superdog sensitive) and he is having that now along with fresh veg and fresh meat. The weight is coming back and he has settled down rear end wise! So if that suits him he will stay on it. I know its a complete dried food, but I feel we have to balance what is best for our dogs, some sites that discuss the dangers of complete food suggest that as long as we add natural raw foods (liquidised veg for example) the dogs are going to benefit from them in the long term. It is a minefield when we start to look into what is best for our animals and I feel at the end of the day its up to the owner to make an informed choice that is best for their individual animal. I am glad this topic was raised as it has been very much on my mind of late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estweyn Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Oh and just to say I downloaded an e book called 'See Spot live longer' gives lots of good info to help make an informed choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Billy, your post is anything but boring m'dear , you've hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned, after loosing my own dog Celeste to cancer at 6 years, I feel exactly the same as you do. I thought I was doing the best for my dogs by having them vaccinated every year, and trotting them of to the vet for every little complaint, Celli in particular had a long period of taking Metacalm, I fed a decent food with no artifical preservativs, but it didn't stop her dying, was it all those vaccinations ? I don't know, what I do know is that more and more vets and specialists are coming out and saying vaccines should be used with caution, you just have to look at the list of other ingredients that go into vaccines, mercury, formaldahyde, do you want your dog injected with these every year ? I don't, I'd never advocate to never have your dog vaccinated, but I doubt there's any need to have it done so often, even the World Small Animal Veterinary Assoc, who advise all the other official vet organisations ( including ours) reccomend that an MLV vaccine need only be given every seven years, they also state that if a dog has lapsed in it's vaccines there is no need for it to be given two sets of jabs, yet vets still insist on this, why ? either they don't know, which is a worry in it's self, or it's to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yena Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) It's strange that you should post this thread, I've been thinking about one asking 'Herbal or Medication' asking whether people thought one was better than the other. Yena's not been well for a few months now. Because, I believe in herbal remedies she now takes Mixed Vegetables tablets which helps. I know that one day I will have to make the decision to have her pts , but I don't want to prolong her suffering by giving her medication that can cause other problems. Am I right or wrong? who can say? But I do think you have to follow what feel in your heart. Edited May 30, 2008 by yena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collies r best Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 I've been reading stuff written by Andrew Lewis again hes selling a book but his information is horrifying http://www.nicheforms.com/s/dog-food-secrets/ Izzie has been fed Waggs puppy food but has recently started having very runny mucous motions so i'm starting to switch her to natural foods. My last dog Hector had bad allergies and had to have James Wellbeloved but it makes me uncomfortable feeding Izzie a cheap ordinary dried food and i dont like the ingredients in it as they dont seem to be anything decent if you get what i mean. Its probably me being paranoid Flea treatments are another thing i hate after all they are basically a pesticide but having cats which go hunting i feel i have no choice to use them but if anyone knows of anything natural or safer to use then please tell me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collies r best Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Just thought, does anyone natural feed cats? If so what do you give them etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKYSIAN Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Just thought, does anyone natural feed cats? If so what do you give them etc. Herbert Cat is fed pretty much raw (just the same as the dogs get) but has a bowl of 'normal' dried food to nibble on as well. I have to say all my dogs are not vacc'd . Sidney was up til his 2nd birthday, Cooper had a years worth and Tiz and Cromwell I stopped maybe 5 years ago. Cromwell has a horrible blood disorder that, as suggested by my vet, bought on by vaccinations, unfortunately that now means he is being pumped full of massive doses of steriods just to keep his face from falling off (I'm not being over dramatic honestly. ). I do give him (and Cooper cos he's old and wonky) natural immune boosting tablets but I think it's a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted for poor Cromwell. Tiz has been on natural 'stop itching' tablets for the last 6 months and again the improvement has been amazing!! I feed my dogs raw and have done for over 2 years now, I will never ever give my dogs mass produced food again. I'm completely happy with my decisions on what I feed my animals and what chemicals they are forced to injest (with the exception of the bloody horrible steriods). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Flea treatments are another thing i hate after all they are basically a pesticide but having cats which go hunting i feel i have no choice to use them but if anyone knows of anything natural or safer to use then please tell me!! Here you go Barrier Biotech there's also a powder made by the same people, I've found it to be very effective, I live in the country, but my cats not a hunter, although she does suffer from Berrybugs which the powder keeps at bay, I also use it on the dogs and only get one or two ticks a year, they haven't had fleas in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Jacky, did you ever think about seeing a holistic vet for Cromwell? He's the one with the condition beginning with P isn't he? I really think it would be worth at least a consultation to see if they can help. I know it's better to get in early rather than as a last resort, but that doesn't mean it's not worth pursuing? I do feed a complete food - Naturediet - which I am very happy with but I am sure if I had the time and inclination and was a bit better at cooking that a home prepared meal would be better. I do agree that "we" as in pet owners in general put too many things into our pets in terms of chemicals etc. and I think it's good to look at what we are giving them, ask questions when we're not sure and do our own research. I was the only one at Minnie's puppy party who turned up with a pre-stuffed kong because I didn't want her to have whatever food they were handing out for the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACKYSIAN Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 (edited) Jacky, did you ever think about seeing a holistic vet for Cromwell? He's the one with the condition beginning with P isn't he? I really think it would be worth at least a consultation to see if they can help. I know it's better to get in early rather than as a last resort, but that doesn't mean it's not worth pursuing? Pemphigus .Thank you. When he first was diagonised (I've never been able to spell that word!! ) after the first 6 months of very high doses of steriods he became obese and started attacking the other dogs unprovoked so I decided with my vet to try alternative methods, I got some amazing advise and kept him on a low dose of steriods but had some natural products too, unfortunately it didn't help and after 5 months I had to go back to full steriod dose because his eyes started to ulcerate and my vet was concerned for his sight. I really wish I could find an alternative but unfortunately steriods are the only thing that work (and even now he still has a scabby nose and still has attacks on his eyes and ears). I bloody hate this thing. Edited May 30, 2008 by JACKYSIAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReikiAnge Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 Pemphigus .Thank you. When he first was diagonised (I've never been able to spell that word!! ) after the first 6 months of very high doses of steriods he became obese and started attacking the other dogs unprovoked so I decided with my vet to try alternative methods, I got some amazing advise and kept him on a low dose of steriods but had some natural products too, unfortunately it didn't help and after 5 months I had to go back to full steriod dose because his eyes started to ulcerate and my vet was concerned for his sight. I really wish I could find an alternative but unfortunately steriods are the only thing that work (and even now he still has a scabby nose and still has attacks on his eyes and ears). I bloody hate this thing. That's the one, I remember asking our holistic vet if he'd had any success treating it and he said he had with horses. He's too far away for you to see him and I don't know what he used, but I just remembered talking about it before. It must be very difficult If you are open to Reiki and would like me to put him on the Reiki lists and send him healing, PM me with some details and a photo (preferably a photobucket linked one so I can forward the link on). Sorry, gone a bit off topic now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lainey Posted May 30, 2008 Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 I've been reading stuff written by Andrew Lewis again hes selling a book but his information is horrifying I was reading that a few weeks ago- scary stuff, but it makes a lot of sense to me- Rio and Dudley appear to be unable to tolerate foods that contain junk. Within 2 days of trying a bad food, Rio will have bright red eyes and severe anal gland problems (they would squirt when she moved, and she has splattered the couch with it on more than one occasion ) as well as 'Itchy Ar*e Syndrome'. Dudley gets the red eyes and IAS. They are great on Burns, but dont particularly like it, so i tried Berrimans and they look fantastic on it, so much so that the vet made a comment on how different they looked. But in all honesty, it was only after getting Rio that made me look at better foods. My other dogs never showed any symptoms of being fed on inferior foods. so i never gave it a thought Kathyw- Great link, thank you, I have printed it off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathyw Posted May 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2008 I am so glad I put this up as I have learnt from the replies many things. Boring Billy, never - I found your post very interesting and informative as was the others. My dogs no longer have yearly vacs. I was going to go the 3 yearly route but have had doubts about that and Elsa will be three years from her last vacs next year. Raffles was dianosed with Cushings Sydrome and was given a tablet everyday. Some time later Ray was taken ill very suddenly and was very, very sick and with all the worry etc i forgot to give Raffles his pills (yes I know that is inexcusable) but turned out a blessing in disguise because when Ray came out of hospital 10 days later he asked if Raffy was on new meds as he looked so good, that was when I remembered. Raffles never had another toxin filled pill again. I went down the homeopathic route and Raffles thrived. I never forget about meds for my animals and I truly believe that I was 'made' to forget so that I would learn a lesson. It's one I shall never forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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