Are We Overdoing It?

[EGAR]

Not always for the better...

[jacqui d]

waaaaaaaay off topic (but im saying it anyway), we all knew the local bobby too and didnt put a foot out of place as some fecker would always tell our folks before we had even reached home.

 

other peoples gardens were just that, other peoples, and you didnt dare go near them unless invited and always closed their gates when you left.

 

as my lad always tell me, "we are a product of our environment", good manners are generally taught and/or inherited as are dog owner manners.

 

we had a little Chi that lived locally and the little blighter would come under the hedge to make a meal of our ankles as we passed, we didnt dare moan, complain or use our boots as a defence weapon, but stood there politely calling for his owner to come and get him please, i hated Billy

[ranirottie]

our family dog was a scruffy ginger and white terrier type mutt who died a week before his 21st birthday (the birthday we gave him). He was left behind when some gypsies moved on. He ate all the table scraps and had a treat of a faggot from the butchers once a week. He was allowed to roam where he wanted to and was neither vaccinated nor neutered altho I believe mum wormed him occasionally. But he was pts once his back legs went and he became incontinent. We loved that dog and called him Vag....short for Vagabond.He was a real street dog but it didn't seem to do him any harm. x

[tootsmazza]

On the med note, I realised a few weeks ago I'd forgotten Mason's last worming tabs and got myself in a right state watching for any indication he was suddenly riddled with disease until my daycare gal told me to chill. I also broke the rules by not giving him the anti-flea tick stuff over winter.

Does this make me a bad owner? There are so many things these days we're encouraged to have I'm confused.

But while I get them with a cynicism I will say that when Mason started at daycare five days a week I got the kennel cough vaccine, even though my vet was very clear that it only covered 'certain strains'. And since then the centre has had three outbreaks and he has not gone down once.

It may be because, as a typical greyhound, he doesn't get too close to other breeds but since its apparently very infectious I have to assume that is one vaccine that is worth the money.

But I agree with everyone else, we worried less before when things were less complicated...and lucrative!

Marie

[EGAR]

Manufacturs (sp) recommend we worm dogs every 3 months - I personally do NOT worm my own dogs that often.

 

Also, I do no vacc my own dogs every year after they hit 5 years of ages.

 

As to the KC, I have often had real BAD cases of KC in dogs fresh from the pound and I mean bad! None of my own dogs ever got it, I think alot of it has to do with imunesystem and how well a dog is when the dose is going around.

[tootsmazza]

Manufacturs (sp) recommend we worm dogs every 3 months - I personally do NOT worm my own dogs that often.

 

Also, I do no vacc my own dogs every year after they hit 5 years of ages.

 

As to the KC, I have often had real BAD cases of KC in dogs fresh from the pound and I mean bad! None of my own dogs ever got it, I think alot of it has to do with imunesystem and how well a dog is when the dose is going around.

 

 

I'm interested in your view on worming. When I had my cat I never wormed her because she never caught live animals (she was too lazy), Mason gets raw food, but its always of human consumption level (ie I buy it at the supermarket) so I seriously wonder about its requirement, is it a waste of cash?

[tootsmazza]

Manufacturs (sp) recommend we worm dogs every 3 months - I personally do NOT worm my own dogs that often.

 

Also, I do no vacc my own dogs every year after they hit 5 years of ages.

 

As to the KC, I have often had real BAD cases of KC in dogs fresh from the pound and I mean bad! None of my own dogs ever got it, I think alot of it has to do with imunesystem and how well a dog is when the dose is going around.

 

 

I'm interested in your view on worming. When I had my cat I never wormed her because she never caught live animals (she was too lazy), Mason gets raw food, but its always of human consumption level (ie I buy it at the supermarket) so I seriously wonder about its requirement, is it a waste of cash?

[EGAR]

Many of my friends with one or two dogs take stool samples to the vet and have it checked for presence of worms and then worm accordingly. I have about 25-30 here at any given time so this is not very economical for me.

[pboae]

Lots of things were different though, many dogs were fed table scraps, but many people were eating better food then too. At least it wasn't as processed, less salt, less sugar, less weird fats, etc. So many humans have pretty crap diets now (myself included) that dogs are better off on dog food. People got more exercise then as well, we walked more and drove less, and if you were walking to the shop you took the dog with you, so they got more exercise too.

 

Kids still played out all day, in the summer we were up and out after breakfast, and we'd be out for the day. Stopping somewhere at lunchtime to be fed on mass, maybe our house, maybe someone else's, and then back out again till tea time. There would usually be at least a couple of dogs in tow as well, so they got more exercise and more socialisation too. And although we lived in a fairly urban area, there were still green places to play, climb trees and build dens. Those fields have all got housing estates built on them now and the higher the population density the more bacteria and viruses thrive, that will apply to dogs as much as it does to people.

 

Plus 30 odd years is many more generations of inbreeding in pedigree dogs, so it's no surprise they have more problems than they did before.

 

Was it a better life for dogs? In some ways yes it probably was, they tended to have more company for one thing. But our last dog had been a latch key dog before he came to us, and had been run over badly at least twice. His back legs were a mess as a result. The first dog I remember having as a kid was run over and killed outside our house. I guess there's more cars now, and less pedestrians generally, so the risks are probably higher than they ever were.

 

In terms of worming, I don't do it 3 monthly, but if I had kids I probably would. Mainly cos he is a terrible scavenger and has a taste for poo. He's had worms before and will probably get them again, so I do worm him regularly. I keep his vaccinations up to date as well (although he's not at the moment for health reasons) because his immume system is so poor generally that I wouldn't risk it. With a healthier dog who had had a few boosters in their lifetime, I'd probably get them titre tested rather than just contiune vaccinating every year.

[merledogs]

I am convinced that modern food has contributed to illness and hyperactivity in some dogs - both human food which they are fed as leftovers and a lot of the commercial dog foods which have all sorts of additives in and which are made from some pretty cruddy stuff.

 

Can't remember the last time I wormed my dogs, must be at least 18 months ago and they don't get Frontlined nowadays either (none of them have ever had worms or fleas as far as I know). They are fed an all natural diet (part kibble, part home cooked) plus the leftovers from my plate (I don't buy ready meals or processed stuff, I tend to cook my own).

 

My dogs are vaccinated and have their boosters each year, but that is only because if anything happened to me they would need to go into kennels so would need to be up to date on those. If I had a choice I would not vaccinate - they would get their first jabs and then after that I would have them titre tested every few years and only vaccinate if their immunity was low.

 

Mind you, in twenty years' time, people will be reminiscing about the times we're living in now.

Edited February 3, 2008 by madmerle

[sanrossscot]

The only reason my older ones ones are vacc'd is because a/ kennels and b/ it is a clause in the insurance (and you can bet that an ins co would try and worm out of paying for a claim if they weren't even if it had nothing to do with disease). Because I go to shows all summer the Glen would still be done anyway and I tend to Worm & Frontline perhaps at the start of the 'show season'.

[elricc]

I would only ever frontline as a last resort, the thought of putting long acting chemicals in my dogs body is horrible, in the past I would give all the dogs a rabbit skin to eat as this is an old fashioned rememdy which is supposed to strip the worms out, I found it worked well, but we don't get the rabbits anymore. I would always freeze them to kill any parasites etc.. I probably worm about once a year now, again I think every 3 months is overkill.

I only vacc for the first few years and then stop.

We had loads of dogs when I was a kid, loose around, no problems, meat from the slaughter or what people had shot or what the dogs caught themselves.

[sproggie14]

I definitely think we go overboard with flea and worm treatments. In my mind parasites are a natural part of life. As long as an animal is healthy then they shouldn't get to the point where they cause any problems. I tend to worm our lot about once a year (mainly cos the vet always brings it up when we have them vaccinated) and I've only treated them for fleas once when they were all scratching.

 

I don't know about vaccinations. I know there are arguments against doing it and I never do it on a less than healthy animal but my worry is that if I didn't vaccinate and I was wrong then the consequences could well be fatal

[BillyMalc]

I'm so glad that someone's brought this up! I always feel a bit looked at as an "irresponsible owner" for not working, defleaing and vaxxing my dogs according to "the instructions on the box" (which I know in the back of my mind are there for manufacturers to guarantee their income off me!).

 

Malcolm has not been vaxxed since he came over, having had his booster at 5 years of age, as well as survived 5 years in Greece. I figured that, if nothing had killed him so far, it wouldn't happen now either. He's 11 now, and has got cancer, so there is no way that he'll ever get vaxxed again. I am lucky enough that, in case something happens to me, I've got a few people who could have Mal, so I don't have to worry about him having to go into kennels either. In all the years that I've had him I might have frontlined him twice, he just doesn't seem to be attractive to fleas at all.

 

Kiera is a different story. If there are fleas going round she's likely to pick them up, and I believe that once a dog's got fleas it's almost impossible to get rid of them in a 'nice' way, so I do have some Frontline at hand to use when needed. I've only once committed chemical warfare on the house rather than the dogs and that was so awful, and surely way more damaging, that I'll never do that again.

Kiera had her first vax when she came to live with me, because it was unlikely that she'd ever been vaxxed before. I'd not had her done for the 3 years after, just because I much more believe in strengthening the dog's own immune system rather than subjecting them to chemicals to fight off diseases. However, she's now started flyball, and I would like to do more activities with her, so it will only be a matter of time before a vax card will be required. She is healthy, so I figured her body would be able to cope with the vax, and at the same time I don't want to deny her a social life because of my beliefs with regards to vaxxing. So a few months ago she had a booster again, and I have discussed his 3 year protocol with the vet, who isn't at all opposed to it. The other thing is that one of my neighbours regularly takes her out for a walk with him and his dog along the canal. There are rats there and Kiera chases anything that moves - and she's not half fast! I am quite worried that one day she'll come across a rat with lepto, and then we'd be in much more trouble as I'm not sure how hard it is for a dog to recover from that Basically, I'd rather not find out to be honest.

 

Food wise they have been on a home cooked vegan diet for the last 3.5 - 4 years and they both do really well on it. I know that them being vegan sometimes is regarded as me subjecting them to my beliefs as well. Believe me though, if I had found that they didn't like their food or would have developed health problems because of it, I wouldn't have persevered. As it is they're as healthy as can be and I've never known a dog who is as mad about fruit and veg as Kiera is

[Yantan]

I am sure that vaxxing and Frontlining were a contributory factor to my George becoming epileptic, my vet hasn't dismissed this view either. I still vax Archie but only because his insurance would be invalidated.

 

And talking of the "old days" I used to help look after an old lady who was in her 90's (it was more than 10 years ago so she would have been around 105 now) and she loved dogs and told me many tales of the dogs she had had thro her life. The first dog she grew up with lived with them as one of the family, getting into bed with her at night, he played with her and her brother and followed them all over, when mother plated the evening meal up the last plate of food was for the dog. He ate what they did supplemented with the occasional Spratts dog biscuit when they could afford to buy them. Bath night was Friday and after the children had been bathed in went the dog. The old lady couldn't recall him ever having fleas or ill health, they never had occasion to visit the vet. He lived until he was 17 or 18 and when he died it was the only time she saw her dad cry.

 

Marion