Kathyw Posted October 28, 2007 Report Share Posted October 28, 2007 This fills me with horror. What I saw when Mum was in hospital was the worse kind of nursing. The thought that any of those senior nurses would have had the power to decide Mum's fate would have had me camping out in the room with Mum. I know there are many nurses for whom it is a true vocation but there are many more who only go into nursing because it gives them the chance to excape the poverty of their own country. Many of the nurses on Mum's ward came from this background and freely admitted that they would not have been nurses has they been born in this country and had the choice. I saw the difference between two English nurses firsthand. One, a lovely girl from Yorkshire who worked nights, her name was Karen and she was the kindest and comassionate nurse in the London hospital. The other was named steffani (used to be my fav name) she was from Hampshire and was evil. No thought for anyone but herself. I came out with a bruise from my elbow to my wrist because she banged my arm down on the table after being told off by a doctor for not noticing that the site of where the drugs went in was infected. Had I not been unable to walk by myself when discharged, I would have knocked her out cold. The thought of someone like her in charge of whether or not to resicitate (sic) is very upsetting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemimap Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I think it is very very wrong too. I have no direct experience thankfully but i would be happier if the person deciding whether i live or die was qualified to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rotties Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Our nurses simply are not paid enough to have to take this level of responsibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ykstar Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 The level of nurse this would involve is a very HIGH level - i.e. Nurse Consultant, most of whom have a Masters and some even a PHd. It would not be given to nurses who weren't qualified to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Bones Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I don't have an issue with it at all. My recent hospital trips have given me to have more trust in the nurses than the consultants. They understood me and my concerns and knew me. My consultant(s) knew me as a list of symptoms on paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helly Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Im sure its not a decision that many nurses will too chuffed about either, and not one they will take lightly should the need arise. Im intrigued about your comment on escaping poverty in other countries though Kathy. My dad owns a residential home for the elderly and has struggled for years to get decent staff. Last year, he agreed to try out some Bulgarian carers and said their standards and levels of care was way above the standards of his local carers. They work hard, too hard in fact. they have to be physically stopped to take breaks. I know care staff and nursing staff are very differently qualified but i honestly dont think the country of origin is going to affect the decisions made. Most nurses are fantastic, a few are chronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemimap Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Qualifications aside - they are not doctors and as such i would not be happy with them making that decision. I would imagine there are a fair number of nurses who aren't happy with it either. Does anyone now if they've consulted any before making this decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeysmum Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 As a nurse this isn't a decision I would want to take but equally someone who is at the end of their life shouldn't be resuscitated because the doctors haven't got around to discussing it with their family. A person should be able to decide for themselves (living wills) or their families in partnership with a doctor or very senior nurse who is involved in their care. I also have seen some horific care given to my own relative who was left to suffer by nurses because she was old, eventually she died. But I know 99% of nurses are dedicated and give excellent care. I believe that we have some excellent foreign nurses and as they have already qualified in their country before coming here it can't be a way out for them as stated. In some cases they are treated very badly for being foreign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 (edited) There are good and bad in all walks of life but I think the majority of nurses work extremely hard & cheerfully do a job most of us wouldn't want to do. I know when my Dad was in hospital he couldn't speak highly enough of the nurses looking after him - & he can be a right awkard & stubborn old so & so if he wants to. I didn't actually see any foreign nurses when I was there but I might need convincing they were either UK trained or as well trained in their own country before I'd think they should make the decision. It seems that each local authority will decide who is / isn't qualified - perhaps the one thing I don't like about this proposal but if the highest possible qualified nurses in all areas were the ones to be making the decision I wouldn't personally have a problem with this. If you had concerns about a particular nurse then I'd say you could raise them with the hospital. Edited October 29, 2007 by Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kats inc Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 Our nurses simply are not paid enough to have to take this level of responsibility We are currently not paid enough to take most of the responsibility we already do so I can't see this making much difference. Qualifications aside - they are not doctors and as such i would not be happy with them making that decision. I would imagine there are a fair number of nurses who aren't happy with it either. Does anyone now if they've consulted any before making this decision? Nurses are the ones who have more knowledge and spend more time with patients and provide 24 hour care for them and therefore know them as people.I would be far happier with a nurse making this decision about my loved ones.A nurse will base her decision on compassion as well as clinical care.Nurses these days are as well qualified as doctors.It is now all degree level and to be honest many doctors on wards rely very heavily on senior nursing staff for help with diagnosis and treatment of patients.You would probably all be shocked at quite how much decision making nurses actually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackin Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 I have sat with several of my relations as they left us and also in my job as a care officer in a care home with people who are dying and it has always been a privlege to do so, Death is natural and to me its abuse in many cases to try and bring people back whose time it is. Have no regrets in refusing to allow my gran and mum to go into hospital and letting them die with peace and dignity. If you watch the joy on peoples faces as they pass over with peace and the differtence with the people who have been been poked and pummeled to survive a few more hours is clear. Let there be more discussion and imformation about death and people allowed to make their own wishes know in plenty of time before the event as it will happen to us all one day. I Have asked under certain circumstances not to go into hospital as do not want to leave this world under many aspects today but go quietly and naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trudi Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 It was a highly qualified doctor that took the decision to resuscitate my brother in spite of the DNR notice on his files, the nurse on duty who knew him from previous visits made the doctor aware of this but he over ruled her - his decision meant that my brothers last weeks were spent in pain, dependant on machinery and with no dignity whatsoever. Not what he wanted and the reason he had a living will - I would much prefer the nurses that knew him to have made the decision than some faceless doctor who felt like playing God Our memories of him will be forever tarnished by the fact that we were unable to carry out his wishes thanks to the actions of one person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melp Posted October 29, 2007 Report Share Posted October 29, 2007 The level of nurse this would involve is a very HIGH level - i.e. Nurse Consultant, most of whom have a Masters and some even a PHd. It would not be given to nurses who weren't qualified to do so. Yep. My sister is very senior and I would trust her with a decision like this more than some doctors. Nurses are the ones who have more knowledge and spend more time with patients and provide 24 hour care for them and therefore know them as people.I would be far happier with a nurse making this decision about my loved ones.A nurse will base her decision on compassion as well as clinical care.Nurses these days are as well qualified as doctors.It is now all degree level and to be honest many doctors on wards rely very heavily on senior nursing staff for help with diagnosis and treatment of patients.You would probably all be shocked at quite how much decision making nurses actually do. For this reason. Hello Amber and Trudi btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whizzie Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 Nurses are the ones who have more knowledge and spend more time with patients and provide 24 hour care for them and therefore know them as people.I would be far happier with a nurse making this decision about my loved ones.A nurse will base her decision on compassion as well as clinical care.Nurses these days are as well qualified as doctors. I work for a hospice at home service. Our nurses are top class and I agree wholeheartedly with the above statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Rotties Posted October 30, 2007 Report Share Posted October 30, 2007 I just feel that more and more pressure is being put onto our nurses, they do enough and have enough responsibility in wards that havent enough of them. I dont feel that the way nursing has moved on is really good enough, I am old enough to remember having lots of nurses plus a sister on at a shift and the fear of God running through them when it was Matrons walk about time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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