Pulling My Hair Out Here

[Julie C]

When we got Harry he learnt very quickly to use his puppy pads, screaming at the door to go out and a few commands. Now at 5 months old he is a real terror. He messes wherever he feels like it despite us trying to be quick. He goes out numerous times a day but waits until he gets in to do anything. The only command he will do now is sit and that's if he thinks there is a treat for him. Trying to get him off chairs or the settee sends him manic and will be really aggresive, snarling and biting. I have phoned to see about puppy classes for him and waiting for a returned phone call. Killing a baby defenceless bird last night was the last straw. He refused to let go and has upset all of us. I know he looks cute and can be funny but his manners and stubborness is spoiling it. Any ideas please before it gets any further?

[DanishPastry]

Can I ask why he has not been to classes yet?

For the furniture issues, you can put a long thin house-lead in him to wear when you are around, so when you ask him to get off the sofa you don't have to either argue with him or grab his collar, but call him off as you grab the line, then treat him when he is on the floor. This will minimize the risk of him learning to bite you as you grab his collar, and you will not get into shouting matches with him (cos we all know that terriers always win those ).

As for the toilet issue. Teaching him to go indoors on pads was probably not such a good idea, as the whole point of toilet training is to make them know that OUTDOORS is the place to do your business, but done it done. There is no other way around it now, than to stay out with him til he actually goes, as he is teaching himself to do indoors at the movement. Some dogs are insecure about going outdoors, but he looks quite confident from his pictures? So I don't *think* that is his issue? More a habbit probably, that he is steadily building up.

Have you tried clicker training him? If not, try it! if you don't know how, there is a loong thread about it in the training section of dogpages. Or alternatively, arrange for a one-to-one session with a trainer who can show you how. If he is a bit too clever for his boots, this might be the sort of challenge and stimulation he needs.

[Julie C]

Can I ask why he has not been to classes yet?

For the furniture issues, you can put a long thin house-lead in him to wear when you are around, so when you ask him to get off the sofa you don't have to either argue with him or grab his collar, but call him off as you grab the line, then treat him when he is on the floor. This will minimize the risk of him learning to bite you as you grab his collar, and you will not get into shouting matches with him (cos we all know that terriers always win those ).

As for the toilet issue. Teaching him to go indoors on pads was probably not such a good idea, as the whole point of toilet training is to make them know that OUTDOORS is the place to do your business, but done it done. There is no other way around it now, than to stay out with him til he actually goes, as he is teaching himself to do indoors at the movement. Some dogs are insecure about going outdoors, but he looks quite confident from his pictures? So I don't *think* that is his issue? More a habbit probably, that he is steadily building up.

Have you tried clicker training him? If not, try it! if you don't know how, there is a loong thread about it in the training section of dogpages. Or alternatively, arrange for a one-to-one session with a trainer who can show you how. If he is a bit too clever for his boots, this might be the sort of challenge and stimulation he needs.

Thank you so much. The lady who does the puppy classes has been ill and is going in for an op at the weekend. She thought she would be starting them ealier but has informed me today she can't do them until the autumn so has given me the number of another woman. The lead is going to be a challenge. He chews through it but we will give it a try. We were told to use the pads and gradually get to the back door which we did. He will go outside when we are with him but not when he has his stubborn head on, just took him out after his dinner and he went with no problem so I think it depends wether he can be bothered or not. We did start clicker training. He learned down, stay and roll over but then "he couldn't be bothered". He just wanted the treats. I shall ask the lady when she phones about the one-to-one. I think he needs the stimulation so we will work on that. You have given me a lot to work on. Thank you.

[K9Fran]

Oh dear, sounds like your little one is becoming a teenager - with the temper tantrums etc that go with it When dogs get to this stage, if you can be consistant, a short burst of 'Nothing in Life is Free' can help turn them around - so everything they like, they have to work for - fuss, excercise, food - sometimes something as simple as a 'sit' before a meal is enough. Hand feeding a meal, and asking for a different thing for each handful, ensuring the dog sits before the lead goes on so he can go out, not pushing into you for a fuss, but waiting to be asked to come to you. He might get worse before he realises the tables have been turned, and you might have to withold a few rewards if he doesn't want to listen, but it can be a very effective way of training, but only if you can be consistent - if you can't, don't go down this route, as it will only teach him to be more manipulative.

[Fiona711]

Oh the joys of teens

 

Anne gave you some good advice there , i have no experience with terriers but if you think he would chew through a lead left on him to get him off the couch a very short loop as opposed to a lead is a great idea Anna from Greyhound Gap made me one for Storm when i first fostered him as he had a few problems realizing when i asked him to get off the couch i meant it

 

Another good way of getting them off is to throw a treat accross the floor and the second they move to get it use the off command and give loads of praise while doing it

 

If he is allowed to practise this kind of behaviour it will be very difficult to stop him from practising it im afraid , as if he shows aggression i take it you back off and he has won?

 

Is there any way you can stop him from getting up on the furniture at all ?

 

Puppy pads do seem to cause some problems for some people but maybe with the nice weather coming in could you possibly move them outside just to out side the door to start with then further until he learns too go where you want him too ?

 

Training seems to be one step forward 3 steps back sometimes but dont give u consistancy really is the key and NILIF is a good way of making our norty pooches realize that actually we are in control not them

 

Fingers crossed for you and please let us know how he gets on

 

Fiona xx

[Mrs Mop]

I do love these Terrorists, especially when teenagers

 

If he chews through leads put a short piece of ribbon on his collar, it isn't so chewable and is cheaper to replace than leads.

 

Being a Terrorist he may work for a squeaky toy better than treats, many terrorists do but this is only kept for when you want him to do something, then he can have a quick play, a minute or two then it is taken off him until the next time. You can use a treat to get it off him if he won't give it up.

 

If he sees you getting upset and annoyed, that is part of the game and he will play longer because this is mainly play to him.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Mrs Mop

[reds]

Re: the toilet training I'm afraid I've always found it's a case of sitting it out. He should be going out at least every hour without fail, more often after play sessions or meals so the theory is that he won't need to go indoors. If he doesn't go on the times that you take him out then I'm afraid someone needs to stay out with him until he does go. Even if it means coming in and then going out again 5 minutes later, you just have to stay out with him until he has been . Play with him outside to try and jostle along nature a little, do exciting stuff, he's not refusing to go outside, he's just taking advantage. If he runs to go back in the house or to stand by the door then just keep him on a lead or a long line in the garden. It all needs to be relaxed of course so he has no anxieties about going. He needs to learn the routine of going outside to go to the loo so that's the association in his head. Does he have free run of the house? Does he toilet when left on his own or just whenever? Does he have anywhere he goes for 'quiet time'?

 

I was also going to suggest the house-line for the furniture issue. Does he respond to squeaky toys? Would he come off chairs etc. to have a game with one?

 

 

Edited to say I should have just said "Ditto" to Mrs Mop

Edited June 22, 2007 by reds

[taylor]

Julie is he a terrier by any chance ?

 

They stretch your mind to its very limits .... but they are SOOO worth it

 

 

edited to say i hadnt read the previous posts and am quite pleased because Diagnosed as a terrier before knowlege means there is plenty of hope for him ...... just start thinking like a Jack russel and youre sorted

Edited June 22, 2007 by taylor

[Julie C]

I would like to thank everyone for the replies and suggestions. Well we seem to be taking one step forward and three back. He went to his first one-to-one class last week and will be going again tomorrow. He walked very well with the girl, had to do sit and wait, and was weaving through cones. He walked well when the daughter took him, did the sit and wait quite well but let himself down with the weaving. He didn't like the weaving so put all 4 paws round the cone and would not let go. As the daughter pulled him he slid all the way round and the girl said she had never seen it done that way. All week we have practised his walking and sit and wait. He does it when he feels like it but he has learned to sit nicely and shove his paw at you so he learned something. Getting him off the sofa is easy if we use a treat, he does not like being removed with a lead of any sort. Being a terrier I know he is intelligent and we do try to keep him stimulated with games and training but when he has his manic head of watch out. He tends to grab anything he can get his gob on but will drop it eventually. I have never had such a naughty, stubborn pup in my life and it is hard work. We do tend to lose our patience a little with him but we do keep up with it for his own good. His toilet training is improving greatly. We have stopped the puppy pads and take him out more than usual but its working. There are just some days when he forgets or can't be bothered and will wee inside. He still eats his poo if he can but doesn't get as much chance as we stand at the side of him, bag in hand. I am just hoping for more improvements in him as he gets older and knows he is not the boss.

[Red Rotties]

Julie darling you have got to be hard. He has to learn the naughty step I am afraid, and it may turn you grey over night. The trouble with him is he is so blooming cute he has been spoilt, come on admit it he has. Mummy, and aunt have now got to take the kid gloves off. If he doesnt like being told to get down off anything he shouldnt be going up in the first place, the house lead is a great idea. Stop feeding him meals if he likes his treats. Weigh out his food in a morning and make him work for it all day, a bit at a time. The bird thing is hard, I mean he is only doing what comes natural to him but on the other hand he has got to learn the leave command. He sounds like a trader and will probably learn more trading treat for better treat.

 

Good luck Julie I dont like this age group, they are hard work and then you get them through this and then they reach 18 months old and it all starts agian

[Yantan]

Julie don't lose heart coz you will both come thro this. Archie was the nortiest, most evil pup on the planet and there were many times we wondered why we had got him and should he go back. However eventually it all began to click into place with him and he's a cracking little dog now (tho not without his faults)

 

One of the things we discovered was that his food had a bearing on his behaviour - too much protein and he was OTT. When we got him at 8 weeks he was on Bakers but I didn't know then just how bad it is and kept him on it for a couple of weeks before wising up to it. It took some time for the penny to drop that other foods caused him to go hyper too but once we got a handle on this things became easier.

 

Archie hated training at first and didn't even like his puppy socialisation class but we persevered and he's now got his KC silver and loves nowt better than being put thro his paces. He's turned into the most loving little dog who loves to please so there is hope for Harry

 

Marion

[Julie C]

 

Well what a difference a few weeks make. It has been really hard sometimes but we seem to have got through with an almost normal dog now. We started using a water sprayer to get him off the sofa if he started and have not had to use this for quite awhile now, he gets off straight away when asked. We make him sit, give paw and he begs when it is feeding time so he is very calm with eating. Toilet training has gone brilliantly. We stopped the puppy pads and within a week we have had no mistakes inside at all. He goes to bed around 10.30pm and gets up 8.30-9am and will hold it until he goes outside. He still mananges to eat his poo if we are not quick enough but hoping with time this will stop too. The biting has almost stopped completely too. Only if he is really excited or playing he will try to grab you but a stern NO and he reverts to licking. Puppy classes are going well. He has made really good friends with the resident cat and would rather play with him than train but he is coming on good with his lead walking and sit and stays. Thank you so much for all your advice. It has really helped and seems to have payed off for us. He was a puppy monster but now we seem to have a very funny, gorgeous little man who gets better every day.

[DanishPastry]

well done!

[Fiona711]

Well done nice to hear such good news , he is gorgeous by the way

 

Fiona xx

[safneo]

Brilliant news!