Does Anyone Have ....

[Rumpole]

i need a quote re cuddling or hugging dogs for a behavioural report

[Happylittlegreensquirrel]

I did not read the topic title and thought you were looking at monetary quote for paying people to cuddle dogs

 

 

I shall take myself straight to the very stoopid squirrel corner and sit down

[Fee]

I have it, what do you need exactly?

[Rumpole]

I have it, what do you need exactly?

 

i need a quote relating to the act of cuddling or hugging a dog by a human particularly a stranger or child being seen by the dog as assertive which could then lead to a response (run away or aggressive display)i have this quote from the book but need to know if it is a direct quote or someones interpretation and if a direct quotethe date of publication and publisher name if possible. If not a direct quote i need to know exactly what is said on the matter

the quote i have is

 

We, as primates, have arms with which to hug one another, and hugging is found in all primate species (ape, chimp, etc.) as an expression of love, endearment, support, or as a gesture of mutual fear or sadness. So humans naturally think of hugging as an expression of positive or supportive emotions.

 

Canines, on the other hand, being quadrupeds, do not have free "arms" and thus have evolved to have no understanding of a "hug." However, the closest gestures or body language that dogs have to a hug would be either mounting or placing a paw or head on top of another dog's neck or back. Aside from true sexual mounting, (which is indeed a rare occurrence with most dogs since, in America at least, most pet owners have their pets spayed or neutered, and even a fertile bitch's estrus occurs only two times a year), the great majority of mounting is dominance-seeking behavior. Placing a head or paws on top of another dog are also often assertions of dominance, which, if not accept submissively by the other dog, can turn into ritualized aggression. There are other common canine expressions of dominance that resemble aspects of a human hug, such as leaning, where an assertive or dominating dog will lean on another dog to make it move.

[cycas]

I can't find that in the sections referenced in the back under 'hugging' and it doesn't quite sound like her style either, I think that's a precis by someone else of pages 17-19. Will try to find a suitable quote...

[cycas]

How about

"... we humans love to hug. It's called "ventral-ventral" contact in the primate literature, and chimps and bonobos love to do it too. They hug their babies and their babies hug them too. Adolescent chimps hug each other and so do adult chimps when they're reconciling from conflict. Gorillla mothers and their babies are great huggers...

 

(there's an anecdote about an orphan gorilla here that I've left out)

 

... The tendency to want to hug something that we love or care for is overwhelmingly strong. Try telling an adolescent girl, or any four year old, not to hug her beloved dog. Good luck!

But dogs don't hug. Imagine two dogs standing up on their hind legs, forelegs wrapped around each other, chests and muzzles pressed together. You probably haven't seen that much at the dog park. Dogs are just as social as we are, veritable social butterflies who can't live a normal life without a lot of social interaction. But they don't hug. They may paw at another dog as an invitation to play, they may slap a paw over the shoulder of another dog as a display of social status, but they don't hug. And they often don't react kindly to those that do. Your own dog may benevolently put up with it, but I've seen hundreds of dogs who growled of bit when someone hugged them".

[cycas]

This is from the introduction, pages xxi to xxii. My copy is Random House Publishing Group, published 2002. The book is subtitled "Why we do what we do around dogs" and the author's full name is Patricia B. McConnell Ph.D

 

There is also an extended section on hugging, which includes an anecdote about David Letterman getting bitten while hugging a dog on TV, and a photo of primate hugging and human-dog hugging to illustrate how it's not a normal thing for a dog to want to do.

Edited March 23, 2010 by cycas

[Ian]

Was that taken from here Mel? (Doesn't include "" as if directly quoting)

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/hugs.htm

If in doubt however (though she might say no, buy the book ) perhaps you could ask her direct whether she has ever directly said this anywhere - website here http://www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com./

[Rumpole]

Thats fab thank you cycas

[celeste]

I'm just butting in here

 

Dog's do "head press" though, which is a sign of affection directed at each other and us, it's very sweet

[cycas]

I'm just butting in here

 

Dog's do "head press" though, which is a sign of affection directed at each other and us, it's very sweet

 

Oh well if we are into random observation territory (yay!) , then I shall comment that foster Tara Banana definitely loved a hug and liked to put her arms round you like a person, and if that dog was asserting dominance then my car is made of toffee. She had spent her whole life as an 'only dog' and I think had probably picked up a lot of human body language.

 

I've noticed that these behaviour books do tend to talk about dog culture, body language, expression etc in isolation from human culture.

 

When you consider that many dogs spend far more time with humans than they do with other dogs, I often wonder if there is more to be said there. For example, if I remember rightly, I think there is nothing in Brenda Aloff's splendid book about canine body language about smiling, which she considers a human-only trait. Yet I have met many dogs that do smile... I wonder what other non-smiling dogs think about that.

 

Of course any book is going to do a certain amount of generalising, but I think the exceptions to the dog body language 'rules' are rather interesting.

Edited March 24, 2010 by cycas

[lester]

Move over that squirrell ! I had even come up with a daily rate.

However.. hugging is a 70s thing. It was made possible by supposedly better personal hygiene and enlightened attitudes to personal contact made plausible by misunderstood libertarian values, and promoted by perceptions of the lifestyle of the celebrity cult.

It has as much value as the, so called " continental kiss" givento fresh air about a foot from ones ear; with which it shares the unique attribute of only being of any use whatsoever as a method of embarassment or familial control.

Physically it is a counterfeit of the "cuddle" a longstanding precursor to human reproductive behaviour, imbued into small children by exposure to furry doll like constructions. Unfortunately; to a young mind , replacement of these by living creatures may be far too easy.

 

As a cultural aberration , it cannot withstand the pressure of modern life. A return to the much more civilised " hand shake" is quite likley. Perhaps without the circular thumb pressure , but maybe with permanently worn rubber gloves.

As a system of welcoming it is far overvalued and deserves to be left in the non recyclable bin of history , along with forelock touching and visor raising.

 

To welcome and bond with dogs, it is enough to go down on all fours and place a hand on the dogs back. There is no need to sniff its bottom; dogs cannot be fooled by sillliness.

[blackmagic]

When my sister's dalmatian met my dalmatian they ran towards each other, reared up on their hind legs and bearhugged- a common thing for dallies to do. Other breeds ddi not appreciate it.