gremlin22 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 i don't see how putting the guy in prison is going to help, i'm pretty sure he'll feel s*** enough about what happened already, not to mention how much friction there will be now between members of the family. The mother knew the dog was there didn't she? i'm not saying it's her fault, or the grandma's or the dog's owners, but no one was oblivious to the dogs existence there, and no one in the family felt it was a problem, so it was just a tragic accident. I'm sure the whole family will be tearing themselves apart already after what's happened.yes it was an illegal dog, but let's be honest most people on here support dda, so if we had our way the dog wouldn't be illgal, if they didn't have a pitbull x or whatever it was proven to be it would have been another dog, staffy, gsd, collie, lab...any of them, same thing could have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 it isnt going to help but tbh im not defending him and if breeding type dogs can be proved i hope they throw away the key. with all the publicity surrounding apbt types and seizures and dogs dying in liverpool he can hardly say he was not aware of the law and to breed dogs presumably to line your pockets knowing they at serious risk of seizure and death (and they are the lucky ones that dont get into the hands of scumbag dogfighters) is beyond my comprehension as a dog lover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gremlin22 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 news said he was arrested for manslaughter though nothing to do with dog breeding. If they go after them for breeding then fine, but manslaughter seems wrong to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 yes it was an illegal dog, but let's be honest most people on here support dda, so if we had our way the dog wouldn't be illgal, if they didn't have a pitbull x or whatever it was proven to be it would have been another dog, staffy, gsd, collie, lab...any of them, same thing could have happened. Thats true, if I had my way PB's wouldn't be illegal,and I'd say there would be room for compassion if the dog had had a solid temperament, and this attack was out of the blue, but if the residents of the street are to be believed, that wasn't the case,so whoever was in charge of the child/dog interactions knew that, and thats where I believe there's blame,perhaps it's down to a simple case of neglect, I don't know, but I do feel someone failed that child and should be held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celeste Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Just seen this Bbc if anyone wants to make a comment, I would, but it'd just come out all wrong, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 i don't see how putting the guy in prison is going to help, i'm pretty sure he'll feel s*** enough about what happened already, not to mention how much friction there will be now between members of the family. In terms of this family it wont help them or the dog admitetedly BUT they aren't really entitled to feel friction. They must all of known the risk and to some degree or other went along with (by action or inaction) To be honest whilst you can't defend breaking the law by breeding such dogs and realistically expect to win I don't really understand how anyone can support such a prosecution either if they believe in / advocate DNB. (Isn't the treatment / use reather than the breeding / existance of these dogs what you're really condeming?) Manslaughter is probably an arguable thing but also the one most likely to get someone imprisoned if they are convicted. The aim is probably to send out a message to iothers here as clearly this family didn't learn from Ellie Lawrences death & they will want to make sure that in the future this type of "accident" doesn't happen again I suspect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Just seen this Bbc Given that we are looking at 18 years on since John Majors Govt "took action" these quotes stood out to me "When we undertook a significant review of dangerous dogs legislation with the police in 2007 it was clear that, while the legislation was sound, more needed to be done to raise awareness of the law and improve enforcement." "Unsurprisingly Mr Baker - now Lord Baker of Dorking - disagrees with his critics. He says the UK has become a "safer place" as a result of the DDA, with fewer attacks on people." "Every injury or death is a truly terrible event but the question, 18 years on from John Major's promise of "urgent action", is whether the law works - and, just as importantly, whether it is being implemented. " To me it has been implemented for 18 years - including seizures court cases - clearly it hasn't worked & never will whilst irresponsible people & those utterly unconcerned with the law in many respects continue to act in the same manner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melp Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 To me it has been implemented for 18 years - including seizures court cases - clearly it hasn't worked & never will whilst irresponsible people & those utterly unconcerned with the law in many respects continue to act in the same manner It hasn't really been implemented though. The Met are the only force to have remained proactive. Most other forces have done absolutley nothing. Currently, the most active forces are the Met, West Midlands and Merseyside, with Cheshire, Lancashire, Devon & Cornwall doing a very few cases [1 or 2] Nottingham, where I live have a massive problem of illegal breeds and dog fighting, as does Derbyshire, yet Derbyshre have one inactive DLO and Nottingham don't have anyone at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kola Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 An article in the Telegraph Blogs:Barking up the wrong tree about dangerous dogs: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peterwedderburn/100018666/barking-up-the-wrong-tree-about-dangerous-dogs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 An article in the Telegraph Blogs:Barking up the wrong tree about dangerous dogs: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peterwedderburn/100018666/barking-up-the-wrong-tree-about-dangerous-dogs/ Sensible man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 An article in the Telegraph Blogs:Barking up the wrong tree about dangerous dogs: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peterwedderburn/100018666/barking-up-the-wrong-tree-about-dangerous-dogs/ at last common sense in the press Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kola Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2009/12/04/merseyside-police-vow-to-rid-liverpool-of-dangerous-dogs-after-john-paul-massey-s-death-100252-25319090/ Liverpoo Echo: Liverpool police vow to rid Liverpool of dangerous dogs after John Paul Massey's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 :rolleyes:There was also an article in the Guardian. I posted it & the Telegraph article in DNB section the other day. I can see what you mean Melp & to be honest I don't even know what Humberside do - last time I spoke to some (civilian) "officer" about dogs they didn't want to know if it wasn't dangerous (my concern was more welfare /& a breach of the Guard Dogs Act I hoped would achieve doing something about that. I got the impression she'd never even heard of the Guard Dogs Act as she just kept saying go back to the RSPCA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gremlin22 Posted December 10, 2009 Report Share Posted December 10, 2009 and whay oh why does the report have to mention staffys and rotties.. whilst were on the topic of stupid things police say.. someone took one of the dogs from our centre, a lurcher, out for a walk to see what he was like with a view to homing him. he was approached by a volunteer cop type thing and told he was breaking the law walking a dog unmuzzled in public...this was in morley in leeds. If the dog had been off lead and out of control I could forgive it a little but the dog was double leaded on a harness and collar, walking at the blokes side along the pavement ( not in town centre) and was very friendly with people...hasten to add he didn't take the dog becuase he didn't want a dog he'd have to muzzle in public, i tried explaining that was not the law but obviously a man in a almost police uniform has a lot more sway than me. made me very angry.this was about 8 months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mole Posted December 11, 2009 Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) and whay oh why does the report have to mention staffys and rotties.. whilst were on the topic of stupid things police say.. someone took one of the dogs from our centre, a lurcher, out for a walk to see what he was like with a view to homing him. he was approached by a volunteer cop type thing and told he was breaking the law walking a dog unmuzzled in public...this was in morley in leeds. If the dog had been off lead and out of control I could forgive it a little but the dog was double leaded on a harness and collar, walking at the blokes side along the pavement ( not in town centre) and was very friendly with people...hasten to add he didn't take the dog becuase he didn't want a dog he'd have to muzzle in public, i tried explaining that was not the law but obviously a man in a almost police uniform has a lot more sway than me. made me very angry.this was about 8 months ago. This doesn't surprise me in the least ... I know an ex police officer (female) who told me that she and a colleague were on patrol and saw a bloke with a Japanese Akita ... it was on lead and they went up to him and told him it was classed as a dangerous dog and should be muzzled. The man didn't know any better than to just say "fine I'll get him muzzled". I told her that Akita's weren't on DD list and she told me I was wrong. Only agreed with me when I emailed her DDA info on the breeds in question. Well lets face it .... Japanese Akita.... Japanese Tosa ... anything big and tough with Japanese in front of it's name ... bound to be on the DDA listing Your average run of the mill police no b****r all about dogs and dog breeds. Edited December 11, 2009 by mole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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