Unassisted Births

[Kats inc]

I've no idea of the legalities, but it sounds from your reply to Rudi's question that the children weren't removed from this particular woman purely because she gave birth at home unassisted, although one might be led to believe this was the case from your first statement.

 

I don't know if you read the reply I did a little earlier but in the case of the last child yes the complete lack of antenatal care,delivering him at home with no help and her refusal to acknowledge he had a problem which he should go immediately to hospital for did end up in the ultimatum either you go or the baby is taken under Police Protection and goes to hospital with out you.So in the case of that child yes.In the case of all of the children it was one of the major factors the judge took into account (as well as several others) when awarding full care orders to social services.

 

It's rarely black and white but to deprive an unborn baby of medical care and put it's life at risk by an unassisted birth would be viewed as neglect,especially if there are associated risk factors.If you do so knowingly it is not viewed well by agencies or the courts.

 

I think nervous Mums to be need not worry Ange I'm sure they'd be very gentle with you,many women are very scared.It is the unknown and that is always frightening and you are putting yourself and your unborn child at the mercy of someone else.You get to look round everywhere which I think makes a lot of women feel more relaxed about it all.

[cocoa]

Sorry but this is getting silly

 

you can't have your kids taken because you want to give birth on your own.

do you think buy putting the fear of god into new mum you are helping ?

 

i called my nhs trust after talking to a midwife who i know never well

to be told that it was not elegal and no your kids would not been take ( as long as you was not mad to start with )

 

yes it has a hight risk and no they did not like it but it's up to you

they would do there best to stop you

 

but i think that people need to take on how emotional it is for a new mum

it can go very wrong because of the midwife or the new mum feeling this was not would she wanted

this can go on to a new mum feeling like she has done some thing wrong

or feeling low

 

I don't think emotional blackmail will help.

 

I have to say I hated the midwife that was with me and was very happy for her to get out of the room how she passed i will never know, she was rude and tryed to keep be doing what she wanted

well it's my body and my baby and i do think it about time that was taken on

 

it's a big thing to have a new baby you have high hopes of how you want this to go

 

yes there a lot to take on there a lot that can go wrong but i think we need to take on how many women come away feeling let down which i think has to be taken on,when thinking about post natal depression.

 

I don't think anyone should have there story on here who is not here to stand up for them selfs sorry

but sitting reading about some girl who loss her kids is just wrong

what happens when people have to put there trust into these people/organizations

 

hows this going to help

I am sure this should not be done.

 

there has to be a 1/2 way house where the new mum is happy and the baby is safe

but i think she should stop the Emotional black mail and talking about poor mums that have loss there kids

there a lot of good mums out there to that just want there wishes keep.

[Kats inc]

Sorry but this is getting silly

 

you can't have your kids taken because you want to give birth on your own.

do you think buy putting the fear of god into new mum you are helping ?

 

<snip>

 

there has to be a 1/2 way house where the new mum is happy and the baby is safe

but i think she should stop the Emotional black mail and talking about poor mums that have loss there kids

there a lot of good mums out there to that just want there wishes keep.

 

1. It is not my imagination that this happened,it is fact.End of,no arguing,no being silly about it.No-one is putting the fear of God into people,I'm just stating facts,that have actually happened,in real life.

 

2.Poor woman who has lost her babies? Donna how on earth can you come to that assumption when you have not the first idea what went on and what those children were subjected to? If you knew the half of it there would be no 'poor woman' let me assure you of that.

[cocoa]

I don't want to know what happen i am sure you should not be telling people any of this to start with

and it's up to me what i feel

 

what on your say so it happen sorry no, I take on your have a point

 

and yes there people out there who are bad.

but i hate to be the one to tell you this most of use love kids and what ever ever hurt them.

 

you work with some not nice people but they still have rights and there story on the net i think should be one.

 

if we take there rights where dose that stand with the rest of use ??

 

if a mum wants her baby at home then thats her right. it could be wrong but if she wants that and is happy to take on what could happen then thats her right

[Kats inc]

Children have rights too though Donna,such as to be fed and to be clothed,receive healthcare and be educated and when a parent doesn't act to protect those rights in my job to do so.

 

It might not fit your fluffy view of the world but it happens everyday.Remember the criticism recently surrounding Kyra Ishaq's death? Remember Victoria Climbie? It's for children like them we get moaned about yet people still moan about us removing children.It seems whatever we do it's never quite good enough.

 

All the time there are Victoria's and Kyra's in this world to be protected I will go on trying to my best in my job.

 

And I can talk about my job as much as the next person.I don't breach confidentiality ever because I give no specifics and certainly never name names or give personal details etc

[cocoa]

we are not talking about the baby once here but the mother rights to give birth

I don't have fluffy ideas i have kids remember.

 

But i do think people grown up's have rights to

and under my rights i don't have to think like you

 

I do think it's up to the mum how she wants to give birth.

If there is no reason to think she would hurt her baby ( which i think that most of use )

then she has rights

 

and as much as you can talk about your job you can't talk about cases

I did ask !

 

you like to think your way is right up to you.

I would hope we still have rights under then rights and as a good mum it's up to me how i give birth

[Kats inc]

I don't think anyone is saying it's not up to you though.All women get to chose and all women have rights.I've kind of lost the plot as to what you're arguing about to be honest.

 

I think I'll leave you to ponder on the fact that not all women are natural born mothers and some do not act in the best interests of their babies.Much as we'd love them to they don't.

 

You still get your choice but if that choice ever puts your child at risk then yes people will jump in and take action.Your unborn child's rights will take precedence over yours to professionals like me.

 

We have to be hardhearted over this and whilst I'm sure that makes people like me the big bad bitch I know I can put my hand on my heart and know I've always done the best for the child no matter how tough it is on the parent.I have to put the parents feelings very much in second place.

[cocoa]

sorry but i am not with you

 

mums have rights the girl you talk about has rights to

 

you can't have one with out the others

 

all i see here is bullying at it's best!

[Helly]

Donna, i think Jules is trying, through the experience of her job, to show how unassisted births can be dangerous to both the mother and the baby being born. The dangers will include incidences such as a baby being born into a situation where previous children have been removed for their own safety for abuse for example. Yes its a terribly bleak picture to paint, but Im guessing Jules isnt trying to force her opinions or bully, but rather show the worst case scenario regarding such births.

 

Having watched the programme mentioned at the start of this thread, my biggest concern is what happens when baby is born and there is a problem, medically i mean, or what if mum starts to hemorage.... there would be too many what ifs and buts for me to risk that for any reason

[nouggatti]

sorry but i am not with you

 

mums have rights the girl you talk about has rights to

 

you can't have one with out the others

 

all i see here is bullying at it's best!

 

But Jules point from what I can understand is that yes women have rights, and can choose the nature of how they give birth etc, but should a circumstance arise where the choice of care that they choose impacts upon the rights/health/life of their children, then the rights of that child come into play equally as much if not more than the mother.

 

At the end of the day the mother can make the choice, the baby cannot.

[phoebejo]

Ange, plenty of ladies have homebirths with their first babies. If there are no complications during the pregnancy there should be no problems. The community midwives where I live love homebirths, every one I met was so positive and they were so excited in the days leading up to Georgias birth, each one wanting to be here with us

[cocoa]

No sorry i think she is pushing and bullying her ideas

to has i am fluffy ?? is what bullying

she is you freind i get that but sorry still bullying .

 

 

she has talk about some one who can't give her side ( dose she not have rights ?? )

and what if a poor mum is sat there thinking my case will be all other the net so i better not tell to much ??

 

I think this is very wrong and i fine it hard that people would back that in anyway

[scotslass]

I have given birth to four children; all very different experiences. No, I didn't like being in hospital; yes, I think there was too much interference in at least two of those births, but my temporary discomfort was worth the end result - four healthy children. If one of my children had been born without access to medical services and had subsequently suffered as a result of my negligence, I would never have forgiven myself. Even at home, with an excellent midwife, you still don't have full access to all the emergency equipment you might need. I started out as a young pregnant mum believing home births (not unassisted though!) were the best way - all these years later, I'm not so sure.

 

What strikes me as weird is that some woman seem happy to cope alone (and in comparative ignorance) with their babies at the most vulnerable time of their lives, but once they're born, it's off to the doctor every time they sniffle or run a temperature. I don't get that. We're quick enough to demand medical care when it suits.

[Red Rotties]

Although a lot of miles from Jules as a foster mum I saw one woman do the same, not inform gps etc of her pregnancy and had a unasisted birth, this woman also had four children took away from her for severe neglect before this birth, but her stance was she will carry on having babies until they get fed up of taking them off her or dont notice the new baby

 

There is a world of difference between having a well planned home birth with everything in place incase something does go wrong ie midwifes in attendance etc to a unassisted birth

[Helly]

No sorry i think she is pushing and bullying her ideas

to has i am fluffy ?? is what bullying

she is you freind i get that but sorry still bullying .

 

 

she has talk about some one who can't give her side ( dose she not have rights ?? )

and what if a poor mum is sat there thinking my case will be all other the net so i better not tell to much ??

 

I think this is very wrong and i fine it hard that people would back that in anyway

 

yes she is my friend, but then if i thought she was out of order she knows very well i would have no problem saying so. I dont think she has given any indication of the case details, or indeed when the incident took place which means I also have no idea about where in the uk it took place as she has worked all over the place. Im sorry but i dont see how that can be seen as giving too much information.

 

Maybe, being a child protection officer means Jules sees the worst of child rearing and the awful stuff most of us cant even begin to imagine or beleive happens, and as a consequence yes it probably does make her quite harsh to the mothers rights if a child is at risk.

 

And frankly, if anyone is sat here, having had kids taken away for abuse or neglect, considering an unassisted birth to conceal that child, i hope to christ they are wondering if someone like Jules is already on to them. It might just save a life.