-isms....... Why Are Some Acceptable And Others Not?

[Alison]

But... who decides whether or not something is harmful to others? Is that not subjective? Is it defined by the individual or the onlooker?

I don't know about harmful as I have not considered it to any profound degree, but I have often wondered the same thing about "offensive". What offends someone (and may not offend another) really is very subjective as you say, Rudi.

 

How it must be for you to suddenly have 'labels' I cannot imagine, it must hurt.

 

But they could also say 'oh there's Steph the cat lover', there's Steph the artist' - far less hurtful but labels nonetheless.

I'm so dull and mainstream that it doesn't happen to me but I've often thought how I would hate to be labelled, to be defined by any one aspect or characteristic. It would feel somehow reductive and I know that I'd feel insulted.

 

Having said that, there are people who wear a certain aspect of their persona like a badge and are quite uppity if others don't acknowledge it. They really like being defined.

 

There is so much more to a person than the clothes they wear or who the go to bed with, or whether they like to be led about on a lead its not the defining part of their personality.

I couldn't agree more

 

In respect of such as the dog lead couple, it has to be said that if you choose to be sensationalist [dictionary definition: "language or subject matter intended to arouse amazement, curiosity, or morbid fascination"] you're sticking your head above the parapet big time and likely to get everything you are (quite literally) asking for - reaction.

 

I didn't actually see the article on the woman being led around on a dog lead. Assuming that they are a fetish couple doing this in public they surely can't imagine that their actions won't provoke a reaction, even if that's just kids poking fun at them in the street or curious looks from old biddies. If they're shy retiring types... well nobody forces them to do this in public, do they? It wouldn't impinge on their sex lives if they chose to keep it within the confines of either their own home or a fetish club. Whilst they have every right to indulge their fantasies, do they have the right to do so in public? What about the rights of those it might offend?

[ClazUK]

Whilst they have every right to indulge their fantasies, do they have the right to do so in public? What about the rights of those it might offend?

How can anyone have the 'right' to be offended by a girl wearing a collar and lead?

TBH I'd imagine the great expense of cleavage is more likely to offend

I don't doubt they are used to attracting attention. Attracting harassment and bigotry, however, is a different thing.

[nouggatti]

How can anyone have the 'right' to be offended by a girl wearing a collar and lead?

TBH I'd imagine the great expense of cleavage is more likely to offend

I don't doubt they are used to attracting attention. Attracting harassment and bigotry, however, is a different thing.

 

Actually looking at that picture the vast expanse of cleavage is quite noticeable, I do have a bit of an ism about too much flesh hanging out, particularly in work environments I have to admit.

 

Personally I'd not be bothered by the collar and lead, but I would do a double take if I saw that couple in the street, as it's not an everyday sight.

 

That said I can see how someone who perhaps was a mega feminist in the "women's rights" times in the past might be, or someone who is very religious might be offended by the collar and lead.

 

On that note and to go completely OT I was fascinated to read an article lately which discussed the true meaning of feminism and defined it very broadly as belief in the equality of everyone regardles of any ism around that.

[chickentikka]

How can anyone have the 'right' to be offended by a girl wearing a collar and lead?

TBH I'd imagine the great expense of cleavage is more likely to offend

I don't doubt they are used to attracting attention. Attracting harassment and bigotry, however, is a different thing.

 

Now I've seen the pic I recognise the couple - they're serial publicity seekers. Have been on Tricia and summit else like Jeremy Kyle, but hey if that's what they want to be OK. but live with the consequences i.e. people pointing and recognising you.

[estweyn]

Just had a good read through and I do try to see the best in folks regardless of colour, religion, sexuality etc, so long as they are ok with me and not doing harm to others I have no problems at all. However if their choices cause harm thats another matter isnt it.

 

My pet isms that affect me are firstly fattism... this really annoys me being a bonny lass myself, it is really amazing how differently you are treated and seen when you are slim, and its not in the mind, nor is it because you have more confidence when you are slim.I have been both very slim and well rounded, I am not fat, but an honest size 16-18. Fattism exists and is soul destroying. As a child I was bonny, and always made to feel different.

 

The next is ageism - both against young and older folk. I train youngsters and they often have really bad experiences with folk who are against them because they are young. Oldism - grrrrr my mum aged 82 was bright as a button but was treated as a mindless moron by doctors etc because of her age.

[BillyMalc]

Sorry if I insulted anyone by using the term "intolerant" with regards to someone who doesn't approve of me or anyone else for being different than the "norm" (that's another can of worms altogether!). I don't mind being 'tolerated' by people who I don't know; I don't care if they approve of who I am and what I wear but you'll keep your opinions damn well to yourself! For me "tolerating" means just that: live and let live. I don't particularly approve of a lot of things that many people do, but I really don't expect anyone to sit up and take note because I'd like them to be different. Like I said before, only if I think that their preferences will hurt others will I speak up. Like the couple with the lady on a collar and lead, in my opinion I would have 'tolerated' them if I'd seen them walking down the street, because the sight of them would give me very uncomfortable feelings, which haven't got anything to do with anything else but my own 'frame of reference', i.e. I would (subconsciously maybe) put myself in her shoes and imagine being lead around on a lead. For all sorts of reasons I would feel very very uncomfortable about that. However, that does not give me the right to express any negative attitude towards them. I used to work on a market stall, and had they been my customers I would have served them as courteously as anyone else (but please don't allow your chain to mess with my strawberries love, it's my merchandise alright )

 

On the other hand I've felt "tolerated" by people who I regarded as my very close friends for years, and that hurt - a lot. Wasn't about my sexuality by the way, but my changing opinions about things didn't fit into their box of opinions that they preferred their friends to have. Funnily enough they are very political and human rights are very high on their agenda - how ironic can you get! Well I spoke my mind as I do when I get seriously p!ssed off and that was the end of that, not seen or heard of em since. I'm not sucking up to anyone who "tolerates" me as a friend, just so they can show everybody else how they "mix" with people from all walks of life tho

 

I've always felt different and I've always been different. Did a lot of silly mad stuff as a teenager, travelled and hitch-hiked all over the place on my own, shaved head, grew hair again, died it, shaved it all off again, went from metal head to punk, to alternative to raver, and I have to say I had a great time trying everything out. I'm not so bothered by labels, as long as they are not being used to judge someone. I'm Dutch, no 2 ways about it, so when I had to identify myself to a recruiter over the phone, I was "the Dutchie". It would p!ss me off if I'd been expected to be off me head on cannabis all the time tho, because I'm Dutch and Holland has got a reputation for it.

 

I do tend to go off on tangents, I know, so I hope I haven't made it clear as mud what I wanted to say. I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I do hope that I'll never have anyone feel disrespected by me for who they are.

[BeadyP]

How can anyone have the 'right' to be offended by a girl wearing a collar and lead?

 

Why do people dress publicly like that?

Is it a sexual/ fetish thing?

 

I'm suddenly feeling old and fuddy duddy!

[Kathyw]

I either take to someone or I don't. It has nothing to do with what they look like/speak like/act like - it's more instinct.

Most of the time it is positive, I also know instantly if someone is going to be a big part of my life or just touch the edges now and then.

The times when I know that someone is not kosher are rare but the few times I have ignored the inner voice I have paid the price as it were.

 

I too dislike the constant shows of boobs hanging out, it's rarely attractive except to dirty old men.

I think that girl had a lovely figure but the droopy boobs on show ruined the look.

 

My Mum and dad worked for a friend who had a gay pub in the East End (there were quite a few) this was in the early 60's when the laws were very different from today.

There was rarely any trouble inside or outside any of these pubs. Live and let live and get on with your own life was the attitude in those days in that area.

 

Society will always find a section of people to harass because of the need within themselves to bully.

[ClazUK]

Why do people dress publicly like that?

Is it a sexual/ fetish thing?

I think it's more a goth thing, but in the case of these two, she considers herself a 'human pet'. No sexual references have ever been made in the media AFAIK. I think it's easy to look at the pic and assume it's a Master/slave relationship, but in reality she does booger all and he does all the running around after her - not such a bad lifestyle after all

[nouggatti]

My pet isms that affect me are firstly fattism... this really annoys me being a bonny lass myself, it is really amazing how differently you are treated and seen when you are slim, and its not in the mind, nor is it because you have more confidence when you are slim.I have been both very slim and well rounded, I am not fat, but an honest size 16-18. Fattism exists and is soul destroying. As a child I was bonny, and always made to feel different.

 

On the flip side, why is it that people seem to think it's perfectly fine to comment if they think someone has lost weight, or to comment on someone's weight just because they are slim?

 

I've had women in work, in front of men, make quite personal comments about how I look with no regard at all for how I feel! Not that I am mega slim or anything but if what has often been said to me, were said contextually to someone who was overweight, it would be considered extremely rude! (that's just my opinion) My OH's friends (who are a bit MCP in their attitudes) will often refer to my weight to my OH in front of me or over the phone!

 

I'd not dream of asking someone if they had put on weight, yet the opposite doesn't seem to apply at all!

 

Sorry estweyn, you hit a bit of a

shallow

nerve

 

I'm a bit like Kathy, I either take to someone or don't, it's just how I am, and I now trust my gut with people for the main part.

 

ETA, my second point about being like Kathy is not relevant to any poster on this thread.

Edited June 17, 2008 by nouggatti

[Kathyw]

I have had the same thing throughout my life Theresa.

I had always been slim and constantly asked 'have you lost weight' 'you look thinner than you were last time I saw you' etc.

I was the same weight from 16 years old to 51 years old yet the comments continued.

I was called skinny minny/shilling rabbit/bones/olive oil (popeye's girlfriend) yet to call someone fatty/pudding face etc would get you a slap in the mouth and you would be seem as cruel.

When I did finally put on weight and go from a size 10 to a 14 no one mentioned it except my Mum who said I looked 'heavy'.

This from a true roly poly as Mum was at the time.

[kittycat]

How it must be for you to suddenly have 'labels' I cannot imagine, it must hurt.

 

But they could also say 'oh there's Steph the cat lover', there's Steph the artist' - far less hurtful but labels nonetheless.

 

You have a beautiful name Stephanie and I would inform everyone that from now on I wish to be known as Stephanie and will not reply to anything else.

 

It doesn't particulary hury to be labelled it just really annoys me that that's how I'm identified now. I do like my name and my nicknames.

 

 

How can anyone have the 'right' to be offended by a girl wearing a collar and lead?

TBH I'd imagine the great expense of cleavage is more likely to offend

I don't doubt they are used to attracting attention. Attracting harassment and bigotry, however, is a different thing.

 

I can't see how that can be offensive or why anyone would feel the need to oppose them, they aren't hurting anyone they are just walking down the street. I would no doubt do a double take if I saw them, but that's about as excited as I'd get about it.

 

 

Why do people dress publicly like that?

 

Why not dress like that publically?

[nouggatti]

Why not dress like that publically?

 

Being a fairly boring person as in "you'd pass me in the street without a second glance" I wouldn't see myself doing it personally, but as you have said would do a double take and then adopt a senior moment as in "that must be the fashion/the youth of today" moment.

[ReikiAnge]

Now I've seen the pic I recognise the couple - they're serial publicity seekers. Have been on Tricia and summit else like Jeremy Kyle, but hey if that's what they want to be OK. but live with the consequences i.e. people pointing and recognising you.

 

I think they made it into the news (recently, I've not heard of them before) because they weren't allowed to board a bus (or asked to get off) not because they were complaining about being looked at.

 

I would look at them if I saw them walking down the street, but I look at lots of people and those that choose to dress "strikingly" for want of a better word, are more interesting to look at and more likely to draw attention.

[ClazUK]

I think they made it into the news (recently, I've not heard of them before) because they weren't allowed to board a bus (or asked to get off) not because they were complaining about being looked at.

Link to their story in my original post. They only ended up on those car crash TV programmes following the Goths on a Bus story, they were Dewsbury nobodies before then.