Gillian Gibbons

[jackin]

Because we are humans and think we know what God want and if it is not what we want we change just read it differently and do it our way.

I think the whole thing is a cleverr idea to make the muslim world know how good sudan is and because she is a christain lady all the better downgradge women and chrsitains at the same time .

The government also use fear with the riots to keep their own people down in case anyone dare say anything.

Someone might mention darfur and they do not want that.

Gillian has asked that no one uses her case as a backlash against muslims which show is she is aware of how much they would like this to happen and again use it by saying as how anti muslim people are.

[celeste]

There's just been a spokesman for Islam on the BBC who has cleared up quite a few questions ( for me anyway) in Sudanese law if someone insults Islam without meaning to ( as this woman has) then no crime has been committed, the rest of the Muslim community is appealing to the Sudanese authorities to release her, the protesters in the street who are calling for her death ( in his opinion) have been mislead by inaccurate reporting that she has deliberately insulted Islam.

 

My own view is that if she had been in Sudan for any length of time she really should have known more about their culture, I know that Muslims are very sensitive about Mohammad, and I live in Fife with no Muslim community, It's hard to believe that someone living in a Muslim country wasn't aware of this too, I do think she should be released, but I think the authorities have dug themselves a very big hole that will be difficult to get out off without losing face

[cycas]

This teacher is being villified for a mistake, one that could have been rectified before all the furore started. I still belive it is more political than religious.

 

The splintering of faiths by man has turned the world upside-down so many times and caused death and misery to millions over centuries.

 

Why do we continue to destroy in the name of God?

 

Very well said. I think you answered your question about 'isn't it the same god' too - yes, theoretically, but then so do Catholics and Protestants have the same god, and Shia and Sunni Muslims, and look at all the blood shed between those 2 pairs.

[cycas]

My own view is that if she had been in Sudan for any length of time she really should have known more about their culture, I know that Muslims are very sensitive about Mohammad, and I live in Fife with no Muslim community, It's hard to believe that someone living in a Muslim country wasn't aware of this too, I do think she should be released, but I think the authorities have dug themselves a very big hole that will be difficult to get out off without losing face

 

Well yes, but I think quite often when you live in close contact with another culture you find that things aren't quite how you expect them to be, and you start taking your lead from the people you are in contact with, who may not live by the letter of the law themselves. I've known people who are technically Muslims but like a beer, for example. Most people don't live their lives in strict austerity, even in countries where religion is an important part of everyday life, so knowing exactly what 'the rules' are can be quite hard.

 

Mohammed is an incredibly common boy's name : clearly it's inappropriate to name a bear after a prophet, but is it obviously inappropriate to name a bear after a little boy? Maybe she has actually encountered other children with toys called 'Mohammed' - if she has, that might well lead her to think that this wasn't a big issue, though obviously once it all kicked off, you couldn't say 'but the Mahmoud family's little girl's teddy is called Mohammed too...'

[mooandboo]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasbro-Bop-It-Extr..._h_b_cs_title_1

 

 

A positive for me out of all of this is the response of muslims from this country and their willingness to help.

[snow]

Errm whats a Bop It got to do with this?

[mooandboo]

Errm whats a Bop It got to do with this?

:laugh: Could be useful

 

Here's the correct link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/

 

 

 

<Toddles off to take medication>

[Sheplover]

Im not ususally a controversial sort of person - I generally let things be...... but this I feel has insulted us as a nation.

 

We are a nation of people who accept different cultures - usually without question, we have to - there are many different cultures now living in our land. We have accepted the muslim way - theyhave their mosques, they are allowed to pray at lunchtime, have their mats out - do their fasting, even give their children days off from school when it is their religious days, we send aid to their countries.

 

In the past few years we have also accepted their speakers damning us from Hyde Park Corner - and we have accepted the muslim radicalists ( UK based) bombing, killing and maiming our fellow countrymen. Countless lives have been lost with 9/11 and July 7th. I dont mean just British citizens but visitors and immigrants from other countries.

 

This lady - has gone to the Sudan to teach.

 

Teaching to me is spreading education, whether it is for history, maths, geography or RE. She had the opportunity there with a class of children who will be the next generation to "lighten" religion, a name - a toy - children. A chance maybe that in 20 years time religion will not be a thing to be faught over - that we can accept that everyone has a God but he is called by a different name. Alahah, Mohammed, Messiah, Budah, Ganesh, Jesus, Holy Trinity whatever

 

We could say that the Americans could take umbridge as we now call all stuffed bears "Teddy" this from what I remember was from Teddy Roosevelt.

 

Our government should send whoever is necessary in there to get her out and withdraw aid to this country.

 

If this offends I am sorry - but this has riled me.

 

In this country MOST people accept others for what they are, what their beliefs and cultures are.

 

As Fugees we accept dogs for what they are - right or wrong.

This post has really saddened me.

 

No one has accepted being bombed. Why do you think people have been arrested over them??

 

Withdrawing aid because of this is a ridiculous idea. Damn all for the actions of some?

 

Much as some British people think we can stomp all over the world and do what we want, we cannot just storm over there whip (excuse the pun) her out of Sudan and come home without there being an international incident. We must negotiate this by diplomatic means, we don't own the world. She broke the law, intentionally or not.

 

Unfortunately ignorance is not a defence under any law? (Although it is interesting to see that supposedly in Sudan if the incident was not intentional then no crime has been committed)

 

Also, the pictures on the BBC yesterday certainly didn't show thousands of Sudanese people protesting, at most I saw about a hundred??

[Rachel Rumpelstiltskin]

I think the whole incidence is blown out of proportion by media and therefore fuelling the protesters.

 

Teddy bear

 

Firstly, there is no prohibition in Islam against using the name Mohammed. It's just the Sharia interpretation of the Quran, that says the name is sacred (except for mass murderers etc)... a bad religion made worse by so called Muslim scholars (isn't that an oxymoron?)

 

In fact in the UK Islam used a teddy bear named Adam (another of the prophets) ... you may be interested to know that in the Quran Mohammed is only the latest of the prophets. He is not preeminent (at least in the Quran).

[Lizzie]

I have been very interested in the replies to this thread, I have come to the conclusion that common sense prevails on this forum.

 

 

Therefore I suggest Fugees should rise up and rule the world!

[Sheplover]

Firstly, there is no prohibition in Islam against using the name Mohammed. It's just the Sharia interpretation of the Quran, that says the name is sacred (except for mass murderers etc)... a bad religion made worse by so called Muslim scholars (isn't that an oxymoron?)

 

In fact in the UK Islam used a teddy bear named Adam (another of the prophets) ... you may be interested to know that in the Quran Mohammed is only the latest of the prophets. He is not preeminent (at least in the Quran).

Can I ask where this info is from please?

[Rachel Rumpelstiltskin]

Aqoul

[Shazzy]

This post has really saddened me.

 

No one has accepted being bombed. Why do you think people have been arrested over them??

 

Withdrawing aid because of this is a ridiculous idea. Damn all for the actions of some?

 

Much as some British people think we can stomp all over the world and do what we want, we cannot just storm over there whip (excuse the pun) her out of Sudan and come home without there being an international incident. We must negotiate this by diplomatic means, we don't own the world. She broke the law, intentionally or not.

 

Unfortunately ignorance is not a defence under any law? (Although it is interesting to see that supposedly in Sudan if the incident was not intentional then no crime has been committed)

 

Also, the pictures on the BBC yesterday certainly didn't show thousands of Sudanese people protesting, at most I saw about a hundred??

 

I find the whole thing saddenning. It is rare for me to make any comments regarding "the outside world" but this episode has really annoyed me.

 

We have accepted being bombed, we have accepted living in a country which has changed - where we now have to queue for hours longer at airports because of new security rules, having armed policemen on the streets of london, stopping and checking cars, barracades around parliament, because that is the way we are. Although " a few" have been arrested over the bombings etc., it doesnt mean there aren't others ready to take their places. And this as a country we have accepted and just get on with it. We still even let people speak against us on Hyde Park Corner

 

Im not saying we should stomp all over the world and do as we want, but I am also against sending aid to a country that cannot make rational decisions and whose religion to my mind is interpreted to suit the occasion for political gain.

 

I agree that she may have unintentionally broken the law but lets be fair here - her class named a teddy bear after a common muslim name - she hasnt killed anyone, supplied or taken drugs, or indeed committed so bad a crime that the whole world needs to hear about it on the news but we have

[Lizzie]

Aqoul

 

 

 

Please, take a look at this link. Brilliant.

[BillyMalc]

A few comments in the media that I found interesting: the bear's name was voted to be Mohammed by 20 out of 23 children in the class. That means that 20 out of 23 children either had not been taught by anyone in their environment, including their parents, that it'd be an inappropriate name - or didn't dare speaking up about something that is this important in their religion.

 

However, the bear was reportedly named in September, and was taken home by a different child every weekend, for the child then to keep a diary of what the bear got up to (if only my school days had been this interesting and imaginative! ). So at least 10 children would by now have taken the bear home, and shown it to family and relatives, and of course mentioned the name and the project. Not to mention the little guy who chose the name: he must have been very proud that he class voted for his choice.

 

Did any of those parents complain? No, she was "grassed up" by a colleague. That colleague could have chosen to have a quiet word with her to explain things, or report it to the head teacher, but no s/he chose to take it straight to the Ministry of Education, where a few old clerics with even more ancient opinions declared it an attack of the West on Islam in Sudan. Over here they'd be referred to a psychiatrist and possibly diagnosed with schizofrenia, but that's a different story all together.

 

I guess it was then a matter for the M of E of weighing up 'losing face' to the, widely respected, clerics, against coming down like a ton of bricks on a white Western woman, someone who is not "one of them". Obviously the choice is easy, and this happens in every society on a daily basis. In order to (hopefully) pacify the raging West, she then only gets 15 days in jail, of which she's already done 5. Considering the circumstances and the whole political circus, she's getting off lightly really, so the M of E hopes to keep everybody happy. She's held on a secret location, which is undoubtedly a helluvalot better than the Sudanese prison where she was reportedly going to do her time, and she was even allowed to speak to her son and daughter on the phone, which I'm sure is a privilege that not many "ordinary" prisoners get.

 

For a couple of "VIP Muslims" from this country to now go over and cause a lot of upheaval, just to get her released a few days earlier to me is just silly and nothing more than political posturing, a PR exercise to show the British people that not all Muslims are the same. Was there this much government involvement when Michael Shields was sentenced to 12 years (not days!) in Bulgaria for a crime he obviously didn't commit? No, the poor lad is now doing time in a British cell.

 

Has she insulted Islam? Well it's obvious that not even the Muslims themselves can agree on that one, and even if people agree that she has made a mistake, many people who post on the BBC site seem to be of the opinion that she should not have been punished. Seeing as the parents themselves didn't seem to find it a problem (what btw are they going to do with the children and those parents who didn't report this "attack on Islam" I wonder, will they all be considered 'guilty by association' and punished accordingly? I doubt it), I'm not even sure if I think that the teacher has been that 'stupid' or 'ignorant'.

 

The school she taught at is described as "British" and "Multi Faith", so while I would expect that all religions are respected, I would also expect a slightly liberal approach. Supposedly the school is there, partially at least, to build some kind of bridge between West and 'non-West'. It's a shame that the actions of those, who do not want to show compassion and tolerance towards others, time and again succeed in stirring up hatred.