The "value" Of Marriage

[KathyM]

Kathy, you are applying statements to yourself personally

 

I suppose that's the only way I can get my experiences across. Lots of people were saying "I think marriage is important because my mum and dad were married and it must be how I was brought up". I was trying to say I don't think it has a lot to do with that unless religion plays a part.

 

I completely get the rest of your post, and agree. What I'm trying to ravel my head around is *why* non-religious people find more "stability" in marriage (other than financially/rights wise, which is all meant to be changing). As I understand it, marriage is traditionally about saying your vows in front of God and declaring a commitment. I don't believe in God, most marriages nowadays aren't religious ceremonies either. I'm trying to understand what the difference is in making a commitment to your partner and getting married. I'm trying to work out why marriage is seen as more stable relationship wise. I still don't get it (and I really don't mean to frustrate/annoy/offend people, I just *don't*).

[Ian]

I still can't find the words to adequately describe why marriage is important to me, but I don't of it as just a certificate.....

 

After a couple of years we did decide to marry - not for a certificate, but probably because we wanted everyone to know we wanted to be together for the rest of our lives, and make a public declaration of that commitment.

 

Probably not explained myself very well, but we weren't after a bit of paper.

 

I thought you summed it up very nicely here actually

 

 

What I'm trying to ravel my head around is *why* non-religious people find more "stability" in marriage (other than financially/rights wise, which is all meant to be changing). I'm trying to understand what the difference is in making a commitment to your partner and getting married. I'm trying to work out why marriage is seen as more stable relationship wise. I still don't get it (and I really don't mean to frustrate/annoy/offend people, I just *don't*).

 

 

Well, I'm not especially religious but I think it's as Cycas was saying

 

There are people who buck trends & it sounds like you may be one of them, as are some very loving & caring single parents out there.

 

Generally speaking though people who want a long term relationship and are prepared to work at achieivng it are more likely to get married and make a genuine committment than those who just want to "see how it goes" / aren't truly committed to it.

 

Many who want to "see how it goes" however sadly still don't think twice these days before "accidentally" having a child - ever watched Jeremy Kyle or Trisha & how often DNA tests are required for example? Rarely are they married couples (though, yes I appreciate other problems do arise)

 

You may perhaps think it's just sensationalism for tv purposes but having grown up on a large estate & seen more single parents over the years I think it's probably a fair reflection of modern life

Edited July 12, 2007 by Ian

[KathyM]

Isn't that more about their personal character though and not about how marriage would've made a difference? If they're going to sleep around and have a million kids to different dads, much as they're unlikely to get married, it wouldn't have made a difference?

[wickychoo]

Not read back, so dunno if I'm repeating stuff

 

But OH and I are getting married (in 6 weeks) and neither of us are religious, far from it. I think as far as we're concerned, we have a house, dog, mortgage and want to have kids and marriage is the "right" thing for us. Probably because its socially less awkward, after 7 years he's not my "boyfriend" nor is he my "partner".

 

I think it just felt right for us, we're (touch wood) in a strong relationship hopefully for the rest of our lives, it feels like we want to share that with people. Plus it means we get to have a big party and piss up with a slap-up dinner and all our friends and family! Also it means that we have automatic legal rights about things now, I suppose we're just playing into the system.

 

I don't think either of us sees marriage as the be-all and end-all, we joke that the mortgage is the bigger commitment for both of us! We just felt that the time was right to make our relationship "official" in law and that we wanted lots of nice presents.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(joke )

[AngieK9]

Isn't that more about their personal character though and not about how marriage would've made a difference? If they're going to sleep around and have a million kids to different dads, much as they're unlikely to get married, it wouldn't have made a difference?

Good luck wickychoo

I have always been single, never wanted kids or to get married, settled down when I met Bill though.

After 13 years together and 10 years of living "over the brush" we got married last week. Both not religious or wanting kids (despite family's reaction "must be pregnant" which annoyed me, am 46 ffs. )

[KathyM]

LOL wickychoo - that's one of the things that does bother me about not being married - what to call him. Is he my partner? That sounds like a business arrangement. Is he my boyfriend? Naaa, we're too old for that. I remember having this discussion when we applied for a house together - what should we call him on the forms? The housing guy (who looked like an old painting of Shakespeare and talked like him too) suggested paramour. LOL - they really need to think of a better term for people like us! Hang on, that's really leaving me open to some less savoury suggestions.....

 

I suppose though, that's a million times better than taking his surname. If we ever did get wed (and I'm not ruling it out, but again it'd be for financial reasons, rights or a party, that's it) I refuse to take his name. I've offered him mine instead, that way the kids feel included (they have my name and I'm not changing that). He looked like this: My name's nearly as bad as his (and would make him two of the Bee Gees as he keeps telling me).

[kimthecat]

Other half?

I didn't half titter the other day when I got called Ian's girlfriend. I'm 51!

An on-line friend of mine is 65 and she has a gentleman caller; that sounds much more exciting than close friend

Alison

Edited July 13, 2007 by kimthecat

[cocoa]

well, i have tryed to put this on paper ( or on here 4 times now ) so here goes

 

the value should be the same if you are married or not

 

if you tell some one you are going to be with them , then you do that with out hurting them

 

you have to take on that things you do, may hurt them, so you try not to do those things

or talk about it and try to find a line that works for both of you and that is not easy

but if you can't do that then you are not with the right person ( in my mind anyway )

 

you love them and don't hit or hurt or sleep with others

 

in hope, you both have the same values to start with

 

i do think that people that don't do this should be look down on , no matter if they are married or not

 

get some values and life buy them

 

i am not sure if people should get money for this

but i can see why trying to get people to be like this would make the world a nicer place

 

could they not be a 1/2 way place

i like the idea of standing up and stay i love you and i will try my best, with my family ( freinds being part of that family we pick )

to stand up in front of people i look up to and for them people to try and help me to do this

( i guess that is the way i see it )

 

i don't think anyone should stay with anyone if they are being hurt in anyway

the kids are better off with people that love them that are not hurting each other in anyway

 

i am not sure if i would never get married again ( but i will always keep my values )

and the money would have never keep me there , i would always stay with my values

which are the same in or out of being married

 

not sure that helps lol in anyway lol

[Elaine]

I am old fashioned enough to think if I am good enough to live with I am good enough to marry

 

Guess that makes me old fashioned too then.

 

After leaving a 16 year 'living with' relationship, I know that I'll never 'just' live with someone again. I walked out with next to nothing. 16 years, one child and I left with a small vanload of furniture, my clothes and pretty much bog all else. I committed myself to someone for a huge chunk of my life, raised our child (okay, dragged him up some of the time), let him put his work before his 'family' year after endless year, and ended up with nowt. Never once throughout the relationship was marriage ever mentioned. Given changes in family law, I could have dragged him to court but it wasn't worth the hassle. So the 'bit of paper' isn't just about level of committment. And it's absolutely nothing to do with religion for me. It's a certain level of security. Not emotional security, but greater rights if it all goes tits up.

 

[KathyM]

I suppose that can work both ways though. For example, two of my kids were born at a time that if I hadn't named him or married him, he wouldn't have had automatic parental responsibility - I'm kicking myself now as if there was ever a man on the planet that deserved to never see them again, it's him. He cleared out our joint account, something I have no comeback over - a debt that chased me, not him. He did this over a period of time (showing me the same rent receipt was one way) and I have no comeback - we shared because we were married, I therefore had the burden of the debt he left us with. I was very nearly evicted over this - he took everything of financial value with him, what he didn't take, he'd already sold - I have no legal comeback over any of it. That's marriage.

 

Baz can't do any of that because we're not married (I also don't "do" joint *anything* financially and never will - the only thing in joint names is this house and it wouldn't be if it were bought). I can't do that to him, because we're not married. Yes there are more rights to "half" with marriage, but that can backfire much more than a live-in relationship. I'd rather lose everything physical/possession wise than be blacklisted for life over a marriage, or have someone have longterm rights over my life in any way (and in my ex husbands case that includes the children).

[Red Rotties]

You see Kathy I was like you, my ex took the lot one day when I was out and left me with nothing apart from bills, debts and three kids under 5. I said never again would I let a man do that to me!

 

I got a council house and moved in with a camping stove and three matresses.

 

I was very happy making a new home for myself and the kids and paying off what I could from my benefits but god it was hard work

 

After 5 years I met Barry through friend, he was divorced, twice, but a lovely guy but thats as far as it went. Gradually I fell in love, it took Barry 5 years for me to give up the things I had worked so hard for. But I know that Barry will never hurt me, or leave me high and dry. He adores me and I adore him, he is my soul mate, he knows when I am down, even when he is working away. I couldnt make Barry suffer because of what my ex had done. I wanted the world to know that I had met this truely remarkable man, I wanted the world to know how much we loved each other, so we married, 7 years on he has never given me a reason to doubt him and I am as happy today as I was then and have never regretted it.

 

And I like being introduced as his wife and him being introduced as my husband

[Abigailj]

I think some people believe it brings more commitment as its not as easy to walk away from a marriage as it to walk away from a unmarried realtionship.

Surely its exactly the same apart from the paper work?

 

I don't want to become someones wife. I just don't. I hate the way people make announcements at weddings, e.g 'Please welcome whatsit and his lovely wife'. People start to talk about you as if you are owned by someone and it is always the woman being owned by the man. I really do object.

 

Besides, I hate dresses, being photographed, speaking in front of people and dancing in public so weddings really are not my thing.

 

 

I have lived with my partner for 5 years now. I don't see what difference a marriage certificate would make to our situation. (apart from £20 a week should that twonk ever make it to No 10 ) Mind you with the average wedding costing 18k most would still be out of pocket wouldn't they

 

I really hate the idea of paying people to stay together when they are really unhappy.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Abigailj

[uke]

That was me. I hated the thought of a big wedding and swore I'd never marry. We were engaged but it was destined to be a very very very long engagement.

 

Then OH became ill and was hospitalised. I found out that in the eyes of the law I had no say in OHs care (though to give his parents their due they did involve me in everything) so when he got out we eloped.

 

That piece of paper is a huge weight off my mind. The person I trust most in the world is now legally my next of kin. If, god forbid, I should die then he'll inherit without any issues and won't get stuck with inheritance tax for our joint owned house.

 

For me the value of marriage is that piece of mind. I've kept my own name, I refer to him as partner or OH so nothing else has changed. Sorry, I tell a lie - it's now cheaper to add him to my car insurance

[Abigailj]

That piece of paper is a huge weight off my mind. The person I trust most in the world is now legally my next of kin. If, god forbid, I should die then he'll inherit without any issues and won't get stuck with inheritance tax for our joint owned house.

 

For me the value of marriage is that piece of mind. I've kept my own name, I refer to him as partner or OH so nothing else has changed. Sorry, I tell a lie - it's now cheaper to add him to my car insurance

 

I see what you mean about piece of mind I guess.

 

I was annoyed to discover that I could pay into teachers pension for 30 years, then die and OH would get nothing unless we were married. I can't even leave it to another family member, unless they are unmarried and dependent on me.

[Karen]

Surely its exactly the same apart from the paper work?

 

I don't want to become someones wife. I just don't. I hate the way people make announcements at weddings, e.g 'Please welcome whatsit and his lovely wife'. People start to talk about you as if you are owned by someone and it is always the woman being owned by the man. I really do object.

 

Besides, I hate dresses, being photographed, speaking in front of people and dancing in public so weddings really are not my thing.

I have lived with my partner for 5 years now. I don't see what difference a marriage certificate would make to our situation. (apart from £20 a week should that twonk ever make it to No 10 ) Mind you with the average wedding costing 18k most would still be out of pocket wouldn't they

 

I really hate the idea of paying people to stay together when they are really unhappy.

 

Ditto, apart from 20 years instead of 5. It seems odd to give married people a tax advantage but then I find it odd that the country gives tax credits to people with children when the resources of the world are dwindling and we ought to be having less children. I suppose I don't understand the politics of it all.

 

I do have a niggling worry about not being OH's next of kin if he were ill though.