boosboss Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 I read a letter in the Metro today stating that people confused the idea of being vegetarian with being enviromentally friendly. Claiming that thousands of acres of forests are being cleared for Soya Bean growing etc. I don't know how true this is and even if it is, is it more ethical on animal welfare grounds to be a vegetarian than to 'save the planet' re prevention of global warming etc. Or is this too simple an argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reds Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 What about the 1000's of acres cleared for cattle production? Personally not eating meat has nothing to do with the environment, it's about my own ethical stance against animals dying for my dinner plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly1712 Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Haven't heard about land being cleared for soya bean growing but I do believe that being vegan/veggie is environmentally friendly - although the benefits would be more recognisable if more people were veggie. Cattle take up thousands of acres of land to give us something like 10% of the protein we could get if we used that land for growing veg based products. Might be wrong with that figure but it rings a bell ... and not to mention the huge volumes of methane gas (my greyhound probably contributes to this ) they give off into the atmosphere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merledogs Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 When I was veggie I never ate Soya cos I can't stand the stuff (or Tofu, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegk68 Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 When I was veggie I never ate Soya cos I can't stand the stuff (or Tofu, etc) Me neither, yak! I'm with Reds on this one. My choice to become a veggie was based purely on meat ethical reasons. I do see the environment as a separate issue, whcih I am also very keen on. If I felt my eating habits were becoming an 'environmental issue' then I would address these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 When I was veggie I never ate Soya cos I can't stand the stuff (or Tofu, etc) Nor me. And many experts believe it isn't exactly a healthy option either. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly...1342291,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khanu Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 hmmm if you read the article that scotlass quoted it says that soya is present in more than 70% of supermarket products - it being used as a cheap protein/filler in processed foods. It seems to me then that it isn't the vegetarians demand for soya that causes land being cleared to produce it, so much as the food manufacturers who churn out tonnes of processed foods who are the real cause........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClazUK Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 This sounds like utter tosh to me. Firstly it takes more grain to produce meat than it would do to keep the worlds starving alive. Secondly it's not only veggies that use soya. It's in loads of normal food products and pet foods. Sounds like a carnivore looking for a scapegoat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murtle Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 apparently, in todays Metro, someone said that lots of the soya goes into animal feed...I don't know how true that is.... M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carole Stitcher Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 hmmm if you read the article that scotlass quoted it says that soya is present in more than 70% of supermarket products - it being used as a cheap protein/filler in processed foods. It seems to me then that it isn't the vegetarians demand for soya that causes land being cleared to produce it, so much as the food manufacturers who churn out tonnes of processed foods who are the real cause........ But the people to blame are not actually the food manufacturers. Having worked in senior management within the food industry for many years I can assure you that it is not a question of a manufacturer developing a product and then selling it. What tends to happen is that a supermarket will dictate to the manufacturer what type of product they want, how many they expect to be produced per week/month and how much they will pay for it. It is then up to the manufacturer to come up with a product that will fit within those criteria (and to be honest, many others, but I wanted to keep it as simple as possible) and still leave a profit for them. With low grade products (such as lasagne, cottage pie, etc) a manufacturer is left with little or no option as to how they achieve this. You may be surprised if you knew what percentage profit the manufacturer makes compared to what the supermarket makes, but believe me, food manufacture is definitely not for the faint hearted. Obviously, different supermarkets have different criteria and price points and I'm sure I don't need to tell anyone who are the biggest culprits within this area. At the end of the day though, we as consumers must bear the burden of guilt too. How many times have we seen, on this and other forums, threads that say 'look what I got for this price or that price'? How many times have many people said, 'gosh, thats great, where did you get it, I want one'? (And I dont exclude myself from being guilty of this). We all need to be aware that whenever we get a bargain, someone, somewhere, somehow has paid or will pay for our good fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rykat Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Ok, not related to Soya but I'm going to throw one of my gripes in about people who say they are vegetarian yet are not. Some people make a big deal about being vegetarian & stating that they don't eat meat yet they still eat fish! Ok, fish aren't a cute lamb/pig/cow etc but still a living creature. Vegetarianism is the practice of not consuming the flesh of any animal (including sea animals), so if someone says they are a vegetarian but eat fish & seafood then they are hypocrits. If they want to eat fish & seafood then they should claim to be a Pescetarian as they do not consume the flesh of land dwelling animals but in contrast to a vegetarian, a Pescetarian eats fish & seafood. Just thought I'd post my thoughts (I am a carnivore, but could easily become vegetarian. Could never be a vegan cos I like cheese too much .... but I make sure it doesn't contain "rennet" ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycas Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Sounds like a carnivore looking for a scapegoat. Sounds like a rather dramatic confrontation. I hope the goat will have big horns... We all need to be aware that whenever we get a bargain, someone, somewhere, somehow has paid or will pay for our good fortune. Now there is a line that should be a bumper sticker... Re the ethics of veggiedom, I have wondered about dairy and cheese in this context. I am a carnivore, myself. I could fairly easily go veggie if I wanted to (though I don't, as having considered the ethical argument, I'm unconvinced), but I'd struggle to be vegan because of my evil lust for cheese. To get milk (and cheese) you need calves. Half the calves (I assume) will be male, and as we no longer use oxen as working animals in this country, either they will be slaughtered soon after birth, or they will be raised for a year or so and slaughtered for meat. Probably the former, as I understand dairy bullocks don't usually make great beef. If male calves are an inevitable byproduct of milk production, can any milk product really be said to be vegetarian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegk68 Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 Rykat I understand your sentiments with regards to fish. I myself don't eat anything with a face on it so I am in the clear there However... I do eat dairy products and can totally see where Cycas is coming from with that. I am now going to go away and think of a reasoned response.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 hmmm if you read the article that scotlass quoted it says that soya is present in more than 70% of supermarket products - it being used as a cheap protein/filler in processed foods. It seems to me then that it isn't the vegetarians demand for soya that causes land being cleared to produce it, so much as the food manufacturers who churn out tonnes of processed foods who are the real cause........ I agree. I just meant that soya in any form doesn't seem to be a healthy option. It is sneaked into loads of foods and we often assume it's not only safe, but good for us. It seems we may be wrong. I was vegetarian for years, but I still ate cheese. I always felt I wasn't a real vegetarian since animals were still farmed to feed me, so I guess I believe that the only real vegetarians are vegans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted May 15, 2007 Report Share Posted May 15, 2007 I read a letter in the Metro today stating that people confused the idea of being vegetarian with being enviromentally friendly. Claiming that thousands of acres of forests are being cleared for Soya Bean growing etc. I don't know how true this is and even if it is, is it more ethical on animal welfare grounds to be a vegetarian than to 'save the planet' re prevention of global warming etc. Or is this too simple an argument? To answer the original question, I think one of the problems is that unless we consume locally grown food, we are not being environmentally friendly. My daughter is vegan, but much of the food she consumes is not locally grown or produced. I find this worrying. I am moving back to a view that we should perhaps be doing what generations of our ancestors did; in Scotland, I'd have been eating oats and a bit of herring or small wild animal, with whatever root vegetables could survive the winter climate - with maybe a bit of kale for variety. It doesn't exactly set my taste-buds alight, especially since I hate fish, but it would be more eco-friendly; I am assuming that the fish would be caught in small numbers and not in the huge commercial way they are today. If I am wrong, please tell me; I'm interested in the counter-arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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