irons Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I think he actually said that real dog lovers go for a rescue dog. I have pure breed dogs, all rescues though. I don't feel offended by his article, as I don't think he is condeming all pure breeds, just the industry behind it and how many people want to make fast and easy money on the back of their dogs. If that is his sentiment, I have to agree. I agree I think that is what he meant any "unwanted dog" to go to a rescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeadyP Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I know what I would do if I was offered a lost borzoi or a homeless shih tzu. Assuming that Buster agreed, I would welcome them with open arms. I felt that showed he he has a love for rescue dogs,breed or mongrel immaterial. I love that article.Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 What's to object to in what he said? Beauty is only skin deep and dogs deserve better than to be bought and sold like the latest "must have" commodity. Too many dogs in the country needing homes already without the inevitable scramble for pups related to Crufts winners. I was asked 3 times in half an hour at Crufts on Sunday what breed my 100% little mongrel was as she was so nice and looked like she "ought to be something". (It happens every year.) Well she is "something". A perfectly healthy little dog who needed a home. One person who asked was looking for possibilities for a smallish dog as she didn't have room for another lab. I pointed her in this direction and mentioned a couple of rescues not too far from where she lived. Go Roy!!!!! Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Roy can shove a big one where the sun don't shine if he's saying I don't love my purebred dogs like he loves his mongrels. I love my rotties and will always have them. Mongrels are lovely too, but I would hate to see all the different breeds disappear. I don't see why Roy can't enjoy his dogs without disparaging others. Last time I looked, dogs of all sorts got abused and disregarded, mongrels and purebreeds alike. It's not just the show world. And, no, I don't show but I know with absolute certainty that lots of show dogs are beloved pets that lead great lives. What do you call people who breed mongrels if they aren't breeders too? It's a shame Mr Hattersley didn't do much to protect dogs during his time as deputy leader of the Labour party. "Being one myself, I am instinctively on the side of mongrels (my italics). But it is not my highly developed egalitarian instinct which has turned me against the canine perfection that comes from pedigree. I just find the idea of loving a dog because of its appearance inherently repulsive." He isn't saying we shouldn't love pedigree dogs. He is saying we shouldn't be too hung up on appearance. He is a very modest man, Roy Hattersley, with a great sense of fun - hence his remarks about being a mongrel himself. His book really is worth a read. I have concerns about the desire for one breed, to be honest. Breeds came about, I assume, because people wanted a dog to match their life-style, or to use for a particular job. My Cavalier's origins would be as a hot water bottle for rich ladies travelling in carriages. Other dogs were bred to guard or herd. The fact that they have nothing to guard or herd (safely) is an issue we're all familiar with, just as it's an issue that 'companion' dogs like Bonnie are often left alone, with no company, for hours on end. I have no doubt I could go to a rescue home tomorrow and find a dog who would give me as much companionship and fun as my current dog does - and for that reason, I can't see myself ever buying a particular breed in future. I was brought up with spaniels and I like the way they look - but that's a pretty shallow excuse for choosing one dog over another. Even if there were no breeds, there would be "mongrel" dogs which would fit my idea of the right dog for my circumstances. Liz. ps I didn't choose a Cavalier particularly - I rehomed her - and I love her to bits, just as I would if she were a scruffy mongrel instead of a scruffy pedigree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilRed Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 It's nice that he likes mongrels but I wish he hadn't written such a load of nonsense, it doesn't really help matters. A dog that comes with an assurance about how long it will live? And then dies 4 years short of the mark! I'm surprised he didn't sue! I can see an experience like that would put you off pedigrees. Presumably his mother lived two years beyond schedule too Crufts is very commercial, it doesn't suit me either but then lots of people go for the shopping, that's OK isn't it? People are allowed to buy stuff aren't they? People are allowed to advertise, make a living etc surely? I don't think it is the fault of the owners showing their dogs there or the breeders that there's hundreds of stalls. He makes the usual, boring assumption that pedigree is all about looks, there is a lot more to it than that, the fact that he doesn't see that makes me think he is the one putting all the emphasis on looks. Or that he doesn't really understand what it is he is criticising. Presumably in his view no selective breeding leading to a generic 'dog' would be a good thing but if thats the case why did he get a Yorkie for his Mum? Perhaps because he thought small dogs are more suitable for companion dogs for older people? I'll leave the question of why he didn't get a rescued Yorkie. There are plenty of people that use the "I have a rescue/mongrel dog" as a badge of honour too, he comes across to me as being one of them. It's a bit like Politicians kissing babies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantan Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I am beginning to wonder if I read a different version of Roy Hattersely's article I honestly don't get some of the criticism that has been levelled here Roy is extolling the virtues of getting a rescue dog and we are all into promoting rescue aren't we Whether or not we want a mongrel or pedigree I would hope that rescue would be the first port of call for anyone wishing to home a dog. I couldn't go to a breeder for a dog, whatever the make, when I know so many are in rescue. This is what I see the article as endorsing. Marion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Must say it's the first time have ever come close to agreeing with the man! I have 3 dogs...a GSD (with lots of bad breeding problems) a lurcher and an out and out mongrel. I love them all equally, but when I look at my healthy cross breeds, and compare them with Axel who is absolutely stunning looking but suffers from problems mainly caused by irresponsible breeding, I can see where RH is coming from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 There are plenty of people that use the "I have a rescue/mongrel dog" as a badge of honour too, he comes across to me as being one of them. And why not? It's a very honourable thing to do. Whatever is wrong with publicising the rescue dog as an alternative to buying from a breeder? The more publicity the rescue situation gets the better. Goodness knows, Crufts gives enough publicity to the breeders. Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 (edited) It's nice that he likes mongrels but I wish he hadn't written such a load of nonsense, it doesn't really help matters. A dog that comes with an assurance about how long it will live? And then dies 4 years short of the mark! I'm surprised he didn't sue! I can see an experience like that would put you off pedigrees. Presumably his mother lived two years beyond schedule too Crufts is very commercial, it doesn't suit me either but then lots of people go for the shopping, that's OK isn't it? People are allowed to buy stuff aren't they? People are allowed to advertise, make a living etc surely? I don't think it is the fault of the owners showing their dogs there or the breeders that there's hundreds of stalls. He makes the usual, boring assumption that pedigree is all about looks, there is a lot more to it than that, the fact that he doesn't see that makes me think he is the one putting all the emphasis on looks. Or that he doesn't really understand what it is he is criticising. Presumably in his view no selective breeding leading to a generic 'dog' would be a good thing but if thats the case why did he get a Yorkie for his Mum? Perhaps because he thought small dogs are more suitable for companion dogs for older people? I'll leave the question of why he didn't get a rescued Yorkie. There are plenty of people that use the "I have a rescue/mongrel dog" as a badge of honour too, he comes across to me as being one of them. It's a bit like Politicians kissing babies I suspect he means that the Yorkie breeder told him the dog would live to 12. That's what some breeders do - they tell you what you want to hear. I think we can forgive him one lapse too - I for one haven't always known about the numbers of dogs in rescue - he does say they got a rescue dog next time. I expect someone advised him to go and get a puppy from a breeder, because that's still fairly standard advice. The common perception is that with a pedigree dog, you know what you're getting - he is pointing out how wrong that can be. I think he's concerned, too - as many of us are - that Crufts is a commercial enterprise with no real concern for dogs. The dog food companies who sponsor it are often ones involved in animal testing for example. I can't condone that, I'm afraid. The issue about whether people go for looks or temperament - again, I could say I think all Cavaliers have a kindly disposition and are totally non-aggressive. That is my experience of the breed. However, I'm sure you'll find people who say otherwise, and with the numbers of Cavaliers being churned out commercially, that is just what you'd expect. Not all breeders breed carefully and even when they do, individual dogs will not conform to breed type. I can't find much to disagree with in this statement - "Buying and selling dogs, as a commercial enterprise, seems to me an unattractive way of earning a living. Crufts is a highly commercial enterprise. The casual visitor could be forgiven for believing that it exists solely to promote the sale of dog food. And half of the owners with dogs on show hope that, by winning a cup or a rosette, the puppies they breed will sell at a premium." I'm with Yanytan and the others. We are here to promote rescues first and foremost, surely - not to advocate breeding? Liz. oops, YANTAN. Tried to edit and failed... Edited March 16, 2007 by scotslass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simikins Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 What Yantan said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Jvv Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Good article, a few flaws, but I get the good intentions it was written with. I cannot tell you how many times someone has said to me 'Oh I'm interested in such and such a dog' we're going to buy a puppy. Why do you want a puppy? So that we can train it/ i can be like I want it/ it will grow with the baby and they will get used to each other. I say why buy one, why not rescue one? Oh you dont get puppies in rescues. OH YES YOU DO. Oh no we wouldnt do that. You dont know where they come from, what they are like. I dont want someone elses problems. People automatically assume rescue= difficult old dog with behavioural problems. Automatically assume breeder = best dog with all the best behaviour already inherent and all the hard work is done for them. What they fail to see is so many puppies land up in rescue for the very reason that it didnt come toilet trained/ obedient/ not nipping and actually is 100% normal puppy WITHOUT behavioural problems- they are purely just being puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel n Hardy Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Don't like Hattersley the politition, never have and never will but hattersley the man maybe... agreed with most of the article, he clearly loves his dogs and is at least trying to champion the mongrels who, to be fair do often get overlooked in rescues in favour of the "purer" breeds. not sure how you choose a dog for it's loyalty and intelligence as you won't have been with it long enough to bond with you and show it's unbending love and MENSA rated IQ Westies & Mini Daxis are supposed to be highly intelligent but my two are daft as a brush.. overall a good high profile article in a national paper. Wonder how he feels about breed specific legislation ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiye Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 When first time owners are looking for a dog, they are advised to look into breeds and compare to their lifestyle to see what breed would suit them. Who would rehome an busy, of working stock, collie to an old woman with mobility problems? A labradoodle is a mongrel that someone liked and made more of. With countless outcasts before a breed "specific" was decided on. I live with lurchers - which can easily be looked at as desirable mongrels - who came from rescue. But does that really make them any worse than the ex racing grey with full pedigree history? How anyone can say any dog is more loving, better, or more DESERVING, is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacobean Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 In the main it's spot on. There is one thing that seems to get missed in some of these debates. Not everyone showing their dog is a breeder. I know several who have won tons of rosettes, and they have to win a few to get to Crufts as it is, that aren't at all interested in breeding and have said there is no way they would. I don't get showing personally but it's a big hobby to some. I've been told in the past I had a fine specimen that would definitely win big shows but never bothered. Yes the bit about the Yorkie does make him come across as a prat. One of my yorkies died at 11 due to cancer. The other went at 17 and a half due to old age. I would also question why he thinks a dog that is dependant on people should outlive it's human. It's just as well he was on hand to find another placement for it. Lots of others don't and they end up in dire circumstances even being pts, neglected blah blah. So yes I'm another sitting on a fence. I have pedigrees and crosses. I love all of my dogs because they are individual personalities. I do lean towards certain breeds and always will. Some of the reason being because those are the breeds I have lived with and I think we tend to repeat what we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 the bit about the Yorkie does make him come across as a prat. I would also question why he thinks a dog that is dependant on people should outlive it's human. I assume you meant "shouldn't outlive..." I think you're misreading what he means. He's just saying that the best thought out plans can go wrong, wherever your dog comes from or whatever it is. Take it as rather tongue in cheek. Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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