KathyM Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 I think more harm is actually done to 'the cause' if you decide to be selective about what you object to. At the end of the day cruelty is cruelty, whenever and by whomever it was was carried out. How ironic it could seem to complain about amnesties /DDA and blaming breeds per se, - and not the owners instead-, but then when there is an 'opportunity' to highlight and object to a prime example of how bad ownership can cause aggression / animal cruelty we step away because it happened so long ago and the person is now disabled. He has never shown any remorse for what he did , and neither do his family now. Sorry, not a good enough reason for me. I've made it quite clear that this man's past actions sicken me. My concern was purely with having a demonstration against the event which will be misinterpreted and twisted by the press. I see they're not the only ones to twist people's words to suit their cause. I'm not sure why you believe his family should pay/apologise for what he did, but that's your view and you're entitled to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boosboss Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Is there a demo planned? It's this saturday! I can't see why his current disabilities should be a consideration. He took the risks in boxing and undoubtedly enjoyed the spoils. As has been said, his activities in dog fighting were probably and fortunately halted by his injuries. How many times have we cursed at and wished misfortune on those that purpetrate crimes like this and other equally vile atrocities. I for one, am inclined to reserve my compassion for the defenceless animals tortured at his hands, than for those left to pick up the pieces of his chosen profession. Yes his injuries have left him with a lifetime of difficulty, but again my interest in his current state pales into insignificance along side my horror at his past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyM Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 The original post was asking for a demo, that was what my posts have been in response to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 I see they're not the only ones to twist people's words to suit their cause. Please explain what you mean by this? Who has said anywhere that anyone here has condoned what this man did? There was me thinking people were debating as to whether it was pointless to make people aware of this man's past. And any reasonable protest can be misconstrued by any person or media. Doesn't mean you shouldn't say what you believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyM Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 If I misread your last post Maria, I completely apologise. I'm bowing out of this now as it got too personal for me about a page ago, and I feel I've not nothing more to say than what I've said already, which I stand by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendbert Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 Please lets make sure this thread doesn't get personal, ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonniebird Posted February 20, 2007 Report Share Posted February 20, 2007 I totally agree with Maria and boosboss. Had this man not been injured, he`d probably still be doing it now. Karen x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibullie Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 when I asked permission to post this on a site, I was sent this by one of the mods, I have asked which bits they are refering to but as yet havent recieved a reply. Hi there Ive had a couple of my UK staff members have a good look at this (Im in Aus)...and we've decided at this moment that theres some allegations there that may not be true and we're a little bit concerned about authenticity etc. At this moment its a no Thanks It was also removed from another site with this message. I am sorry but the moderating team have decided to delete this thread. Whilst we think what this man is alledged to have done is likely to be true and is dispicable we have to protect ***** from potentially being sued for slander and libel. Given that the evidence I have so far read on other forums and websites is so far "rumours" and "allegations" we can not allow this on the ***** Forum. Sorry But this was a post on yet another forum which may be useful I live in Pittsburgh, PA, USA and the animal community here is very upset about this. We have started sending comments to Marriot International via their online comment form at this link: https://marriott.com/suggest/suggest.mi It is an online form that solicits consumer comments for Marriott International. When we began sending our comments in about the McClellan benefit, some of us got replies. No one has gotten a reply in days, now. I'm hoping that you in the UK will take advantage of Marriott's comment form to let Marriott know what you think of its corporate citizenship skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegk68 Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 I'm sorry as I haven't read much beyond page one of this thread. It is indeed a sad state of affairs. Although, as I believe it, there is no concrete proof, in my book there's 'no smoke without fire'. Something about all of this though does not sit right with me. Perhaps because what's happened is now in the past and whilst that doesn't make it any less important, I just feel that focusing on the here and now and the future is what will make a difference to the dogs. For example, on the very same saturday (this one coming), there is another demo, or rather Awareness Day, taking place. Like this affair it is focusing on the dogs. Only the DeedNOTBreed Awareness Day is promoting responsible dog ownership, the plight of dogs during the Merseyside Dog Amnesty and questioning breed specific legislation etc. It is a long term strategy and on a subject that affects us all - 'blame the Deed NOT the Breed'. To me, participating in this event, means helping to secure a better future and prospects for all our four legged friends. I know which event I'd rather support... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotslass Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 And any reasonable protest can be misconstrued by any person or media. Doesn't mean you shouldn't say what you believe in. Well, perhaps sometimes it should. I've done lots of demonstrating in my time - I am not against it generally as a form of protest. However, if I thought that a cause I supported was actually going to be damaged by a proposed action, then no matter how strongly I felt about it, how impassioned I might be, how enraged about someone else's cruelty, I might feel I had to step back. I happen to hate fox-hunting, but I won't ally myself with some of the more extreme acts committed by the anti-hunting groups because I think they do more harm than good. I could go along to hunt meetings and cause havoc (and possibly alienate potential converts) or I could deal with it on a daily, more personal basis, hoping to persuade other people to my way of thinking through reasoned discussion. It isn't as exciting, but I've seen it work. Has this man broken the law of the US? In that case, he should be prosecuted in his country if it can be proven. If he has caused injury to women, the same applies. Why hasn't this happened? I have a horrible feeling that most people will look at any demo about this case and say "bloody animal rights folk again - typical of them to care more about dogs than disabled humans". We have to decide if we are genuinely trying to change public opinion or just showing we hate someone. I see no value in the latter, personally. Liz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raiye Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Just like many on here I am horrified and disgusted at some of the atrocoties he used as entertainment. But I also feel disgusted at some of the atrocoties then wished on him by some members of the forum I think ten years of paralysis, blindness and deafness, having to be waited on by family members for everything because he cant even wipe his own behind, scrimping and scraping to now even manage to live, is karma enough. I wouldnt wish that on anyone for far worse crimes. Maybe his views on dog fighting and killing has changed considering his circumstances since then, maybe he has seen the error of his ways? He probably hasnt seen anything remotely like entertainment for a long time. People change. Maybe he has too? Has anyone tried contacting someone close to him to see how he thinks now? His methods were cruel, but also aged. Times have changed and moved on, maybe so has he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegk68 Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) Scotslass I think you speak a lot of sense. Some of my concerns re. this event are the same as yours: 1. there is no concrete proof of his actions 2. you can not rely solely on what the press write 3. this all happened in the states and he should be convicted there under appropriate animal cruelty laws 4. this is old news, plus it needs to be closer to home to have any real impact over here IMHO 5. the man in question is not in a position to speak for himself 6. not everyone likes dogs, some may see such a demo as, for want of a better word, 'in bad taste' given his circumstances for the last 10 years - this will do no one any favours 7. I'd rather concentrate my efforts on the 'here and now' and the future with regards to animal cruelty and responsible dog ownership 8. generally with such events any publicity will be forgotten in a day or two. Demos that are promoting a long term cause hold more credance Just my opinion. Doesn't mean that I don't think the man seems to be a despicable being.... Edited February 21, 2007 by tegk68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sillymooo Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 in my opinion, when people form a view of someone, it takes a minor miracle to change their mind. i can use two examples for this. one famous, the other not. non famous first! an old friend of mine received money and shot someone to death just a couple of years ago. even with the evidence of this infront of me, i find it hard to believe that this person could've been capable of such a thing. i find it difficult to think badly of him and pray there were circumstances i couldnt ever understand that made him do it. the famous person is Michael Jackson. scandals have followed him everywhere, and even facing court, his loyal fans (as many of them famous too) stood by his side, refusing to think badly of him. my point is this, by showing or reminding the world of all this man's wrong doings, we will not remove those who love him or think highly of him. therefor, the planned event would stil go ahead. maybe more elaborately so, just to prove their loyalty. and compassion will be undoubtably higher because of his current health. i completely agree with people facing consequences for their actions, no matter how long a time has passed. but what punishment could he receive that wouldnt just cost the tax payer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted February 22, 2007 Report Share Posted February 22, 2007 Just like many on here I am horrified and disgusted at some of the atrocoties he used as entertainment.But I also feel disgusted at some of the atrocoties then wished on him by some members of the forum I think ten years of paralysis, blindness and deafness, having to be waited on by family members for everything because he cant even wipe his own behind, scrimping and scraping to now even manage to live, is karma enough. I wouldnt wish that on anyone for far worse crimes. Maybe his views on dog fighting and killing has changed considering his circumstances since then, maybe he has seen the error of his ways? He probably hasnt seen anything remotely like entertainment for a long time. People change. Maybe he has too? Has anyone tried contacting someone close to him to see how he thinks now? His methods were cruel, but also aged. Times have changed and moved on, maybe so has he? good post. whiulst i still think he was a sick man for what he did I am not comfortable with punishing his family for his actions. At the end of the day they are the ones having to care for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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