Pingu Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 looks like a bun fight free zone so far though I do like bath buns so if there are any going spare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natpants Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Sorry, it's just that from experience, every one of these threads ends up in a debate over AS and the original point gets lost - perhaps I'm being unfairly premtptive, apologies if I am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safneo Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 So back to your original post, did you manage to get hold of AS? I forgot to hunt out the HTM dvd too. Will have look for it and give it to you next time I see you. I know of a nice field being sold locally. would be perfect for our delinquent dogs. If I only I had 8 grand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishPastry Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 no riding schools near you?? They might let you rent the indoor sandschool for half an hour or so a week, in a non-busy time slot (and if you makle Andrea and Neo come with you, they could have some real fun together!). That could be an option for midweek, and then with weekend walks where you could go a bit further, she wouldn't be too bad of at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natpants Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 no riding schools near you?? They might let you rent the indoor sandschool for half an hour or so a week, in a non-busy time slot (and if you makle Andrea and Neo come with you, they could have some real fun together!). That could be an option for midweek, and then with weekend walks where you could go a bit further, she wouldn't be too bad of at all. We looked into that before actually, couldn't find anywhere but worth looking again. Need to check my lottery ticket as Andrea and I are going to buy that paddock if we can find £8K! (as if, I can't find £20 to go to a workshop ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlmckay Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Sorry, it's just that from experience, every one of these threads ends up in a debate over AS and the original point gets lost - perhaps I'm being unfairly premtptive, apologies if I am No bun fight... was just trying to get my head around what you're doing with your dog... I've never heard of "grounding" a dog to that extent... so was just asking questions about your training methodology - that's all 'tis interesting to note that someone else used Time Out for their dog and got negative feedback on it, yet this seems to be ok by the same people... so was asking for clarification on what exactly you were doing and the reasons why... Is it working for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natpants Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 No bun fight... was just trying to get my head around what you're doing with your dog... I've never heard of "grounding" a dog to that extent... so was just asking questions about your training methodology - that's all 'tis interesting to note that someone else used Time Out for their dog and got negative feedback on it, yet this seems to be ok by the same people... so was asking for clarification on what exactly you were doing and the reasons why... Is it working for you? I am sorry I was being defensive and I shouldn't have been If you do a search on my (and indeed Bebe's and many others) threads on DP's t&b perhaps you'll see why as it always degenerates into an argument. It is controversial - and I was very sceptical. There's a lot of info on DP which you would probably be interested in reading. It's the only thing in 3 years of you-name-it-I've-done-it that's worked, even slightly. I trust Ange completely, I don't always agree with her but she factors that in too. But above all, it's clear she loves dogs, even Purdie who she calls (affectionately I think ) "Cowbag" It amazes me how stressed and unhappy I was when I read back over th e years - I am so relaxed now! And so is/was Purdie. But lately Purdie seems unhappy, well, more bored than unhappy. And the fact that my money/time situation isn't good means I can't invest in the process properly, so it's a bit of a second-best scenario now. It's not doing what it's mean to do. I suspect that Ange just hasn't realised I'm still not taking her out. My main problem will be the off-lead work which I just don't think I can morally justify. If my dog sods off into the hills as she's done before or yunder the wheels of a car that's my problem but if she causes another dog issues - well it's not just me and P I have to think about then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukaBeama Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) As Andrea has already explained the grounding helps them to destress and perhaps more importantly, ensures that the only dogs they meet during their rehabilitation are trained, teaching dogs. Once their behaviour has changed and (in the case of my dogs) they have learnt to communicate properly and hence loose their aggression they can begin to meet other dogs again Different dogs are 'grounded' for different periods of time and, as in the case of my dogs, they were never confined to the house they were simply walked at times/places they would not see any other dogs for a period of time. Edited November 6, 2006 by LukaBeama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natpants Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Yup. Purdie is a bad case, I think everyone will vouch for that who's seen her at her best... LukaBeama can tell you about how she took on 3 dogs at once (including one of hers!) and simply refused to give up - now that was scary, how I didn't cry I don't know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobleronie Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nat in order for me to understand and I apologise for not having the time to look through previous threads What exercise does Perdie have, by grounding does that mean that she does not go out for a walk at all, or is it only in controlled circumstances. What is her routine ? I am not in a position to give advice in any way but it might help others come up with suggestions if we know what is happening on a day to day basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happylittlegreensquirrel Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Nat , does Purdie have to be off lead and muzzled when you start taking her out again , could she not be on lead and either muzzled or just walked at times and locations where she will not see other dogs ? Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendbert Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 Sorry, probably missing something here, but can't you just take Purdie out for an on-lead walk with her wearing a muzzle at a time when its fairly quiet? If she's not been out for so long I can imagine she's probably climbing the walls with boredom by now - I know Bumpy would be! He can be a right git with other dogs and would, if given the chance, bite so I try and walk him in places and at times when I know it will be less stressful, and always wearing his muzzle just to be on the safe side. Knowing he can't do damage to another dog certainly makes me more relaxed which I'm sure he must pick up on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safneo Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 What works for one dog won't work for another. And when you have hardcore dogs with aggression issues you dont pussyfoot around with them. We have to be in control. How many times do people slate other owners on here because an uncontrolled dog has attacked their own. We've been there too. Thats why we are where we are now and trying not to let that happen to someone else's dog. Our dogs are not 'timed out'. They have interaction at home. Though I do try to make sure that Neo has it on my terms not his as he is a stroppy bugger at times and very very clever!! Until our dogs are rehabilitated enough in the groups to actually get them to listen to us instead of focusing intently on what dog (and in Neos case) person he wants to 'see off' its safer to them not to put them in a situation where non-experienced doggy people will feel threatened by them. Its just a re-learning process for them. Learning alternative responses to the way that they feel. Hence not taking them out to practise the old behaviour anymore. Also it knocks your own confidence ten fold every time you are out walking your onlead, muzzled dog and someones say look at that nasty dog or you get told that they should be PTS! At least in group everyone is in the same boat! It gives you more confidence to deal with your dog. What puzzles me is that no-one seems to mind that people who commit crime are locked away until they have been rehabilitated. Why is it so wrong to keep our dogs off the streets away from any stress and harm that they may come to until they have changed their behaviour enough for it to manageable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukaBeama Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) Yup. Purdie is a bad case, I think everyone will vouch for that who's seen her at her best... LukaBeama can tell you about how she took on 3 dogs at once (including one of hers!) and simply refused to give up - now that was scary, how I didn't cry I don't know! You were very very brave, I would have been crying! There was no way she was going to back down at all was there- she was very feisty indeed but the last time I saw her at the groups out with Neo she seemed like a changed dog Is there anywhere you could road walk her? That was how we started taking Luka back out on the lead, past hooge houses as we hardly ever saw anyone and even then only tended to see people with tiny dogs and they are all on the lead and could be avoided It has to be something you feel comfortable with too though, if you don't feel confident to take her out just yet then maybe a few more groups would help? We have been doing some lead stuff recently too that I've found really helpful. Hopefully Ang will be back soon and will be able to give you some advice too. Edited November 6, 2006 by LukaBeama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natpants Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 (edited) Nat in order for me to understand and I apologise for not having the time to look through previous threads What exercise does Perdie have, by grounding does that mean that she does not go out for a walk at all, or is it only in controlled circumstances. What is her routine ? I am not in a position to give advice in any way but it might help others come up with suggestions if we know what is happening on a day to day basis Sure, sorry, I thought most people here would know my tales of woe from old inside out Most of Ange's "patients" are grounded until they learn proper behaviour, as is Purdie. She doesn't have any physical exercise, other than ball games at home, and that which she gets at Angela's. Stimulation is mental, games, kongs, chews, training tricks, that kind of thing. The theory is that naturally dogs wouldn't exercise unless to move away from the pack to seek food, they sleep most of the time and stay around one place, so it's really humans that dictate that dogs need walks, and we accustomise them to the routine. Purdie adapted just fine in fact, to my surprise, and calmed right down. It's in looking back at old threads on DP I can be so proud of how far we've come. But lately she's bored. I don;t do as much as I should but training with food makes her even more foody and highly-strung. She's not allowed any contact with other dogs unless in controlled situations (Ange's workshops) as she has to encounter the right dogs. Dogs which she is allowed to freely bully got her to where she is now - to my knowledge, during the time I had her only one dog (an Akita, a bitch) ever had the better of Purdie. Although she is slight of frame and looks dainty she is impressively strong physically but moreover, mentally. She is capable of killing a small dog and seriously harming a large one without too much trouble (God I feel terrible now Wendy, knowing what I do now and how mean she was to your dogs at my house that day ) She is doing very well, but I don't trust her 100% and never will, having seen her in action properly, luckily I'd stopped allowing her off-lead before she was given the chance to show her true colours - people called me paranoid but I am glad I was! She will always be muzzled in public, even just to and from the car. In Birmingham, certainly where I live, it is never quiet. My friend and I took her out in the middle of the night not long ago and we still met people. Noisy teens, people snogging, dog-walkers, we met them all. I have to drive a long way to find somewhere secluded sadly. Edited November 6, 2006 by Natpants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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