Single Distemper Vaccination?

[sproggie14]

I know a few fugees have looked into alternatives to vaccinations or alternative vaccination routines so I'm hoping someone might be able to help here.

 

We decided to go with antibody testing for Cassie recently. The results have come back that she has good immunity to Parvo and Hepatitis but not to distemper. Now obviously our priority is making sure she is covered for distemper but I do hate having to vaccinate her for the others when we have clear evidence that it's not needed. There does appear to be a single distemper vax available in the states called Galaxy-D but I can't seem to find information about its availability here. Has anyone looked into this previously and if so did you manage to source a single vaccine and where from? I don't mind ordering it specially from the US if that's possible, I just really don't want to give her vaccinations she doesn't need, especially as recent bloods also showed she may have slight kidney issues.

 

Thanks guys

[blackmagic]

The titre test only measures the antibodies in the bloodstream. If your dog has not had contact with a disease there will not be antibodies on the bloodstream- but the memory cells will still be there waiting to be needed.

 

So, a low titre result may mean that your dog has no immunity to a disease, or it may mean that it has not come into contact with the disease recently to activate the memory cells to produce antibodies.

 

In the case of distemper this could be true since it is not a common disease now.

 

A high titre result confirms that your dog has immunity to a disease, but a low result doesn't necessarily mean it has no immunity

 

 

http://www.caberfeidh.com/Titers.htm

[celeste]

I've asked about single vaccines at my vet and was told they are available but I'd need to buy a whole box of them which would be over a £100 and they only have a limited shelf life.

I used to get my dogs titre tested but don't any more, I don't vaccinate at all now, although mine were all vaccinated up to the age of 4, it is a risk, but I also think vaccinating is a risk too, I would always vaccinate a puppy and the first booster but after that I prefer to take the chance, but I don't live in a built up area and our walks are pretty remote, if I lived in a city I would possibly vaccinate due to the higher dog population.

[sproggie14]

Thanks guys, I'm really torn on this to be honest. The WSAVA guidelines now say not to vaccinate more often than every three years so ours have all waited three years for their core vaccines. And now we're obviously titre testing to see whether each needs a booster. I hate the idea of having to vaccinate her for two conditions she is already immune to, I really do. But if she ended up with distemper I'd never forgive myself. And then there's the question of the lepto and kennel cough. The WSAVA now only recommends vaccinating dogs whose lifestyle puts them at risk of contracting lepto. Well we live in a town but none of them go swimming or hunting so I'm really not convinced that's necessary. They don't go to shows or kennels so likewise with the kennel cough. They're all getting older now and have their little niggles so I really don't want to put their bodies through vaccinations they don't need but we do so much in their lives to make sure they're safe I really don't want to gamble with their health. Either way, since I know that over vaccinating can be just as bad as not vaccinating at all.

 

I'm so undecided

[gremlin22]

personally i would always vaccinate. for the main ones anyway. I know overvaccinating is a slight risk but not vaccinating is a much bigger one. Just because you don't live in a high risk area doesn't mean a dog or other animal from out of town isn't visiting the area. I'd just do a normal booster then the lepto and distemper are covered. I wouldn't be bothered about kennel cough tho if they don't go in kennels. that's just my opinion though.good luck deciding.

[Rumpole]

i know that parvo and Hepatitis are available seperately but not sure on distemper and lepto as pickle cannot be vacced with those because of his condition.

[celeste]

 

I'm so undecided

 

How I sympathise , I worried myself sick about it, it is a risk, there's no doubt about it, but for me I feel there's more of a risk of problems from the jab than the risk of a healthy dog contracting one of the diseases they could have been vaccinated against, which may or may not work in the first place, also the inclusion of Mercury and Formaldehyde in vaccines really worries me, more than the chance of them catching a disease.

Glad you found the WSAVA site, it's excellent, did you see the bit where it says an already vaccinated dog doesn't need to get the whole course of jabs if it's missed it's booster ?, kinda makes you go at vets who insist dogs need the whole lot again.

[cycas]

How I sympathise , I worried myself sick about it, it is a risk, there's no doubt about it, but for me I feel there's more of a risk of problems from the jab than the risk of a healthy dog contracting one of the diseases they could have been vaccinated against, which may or may not work in the first place,

 

Worth mentioning though that the only reason that is the case is because other people do have their dogs vaccinated. See the WSAVA on herd immunity.

 

The more people that don't vaccinate or titre test, the more dogs there are likely to be with no immunity, and greater the danger to all dogs (including the vaccinated ones: vaccines aren't 100% effective, so if there is a lot of infection about a vaccinated dog can still get the disease: vaccination works best when as many people/dogs as possible are vaccinated. )

 

I hope Sproggie finds a suitable distemper vaccine!

 

Mine are still vaccinated. I don't live in a town, but in my rural village, pretty much everyone has at least one dog, and I also live in an area where many people travel in for holidays with their dogs, and up tll now, I've had a pair of healthy hounds with no issues that might make me concerned about vaccinating. Az is getting quite elderly, so I am thinking next time I might get him titre tested and only vacc if he needs it. That might affect my ability to board him though....

 

Re the three year thing: yes, the WSAVA say three years is OK, but the people that make the stuff and the instructions that come with it often still say one year. A vet is providing a service to people who may need to board their dogs - sometimes at short notice. Until the instructions on all the vaccines say 'once every three years' the vet might actually be putting an animal at risk if they say to the owner 'actually, three years is OK' .

 

If the owner then needs to put the dog into kennels urgently and finds that the kennels is not happy with that under the terms of their own licence, the dog might have nowhere to go and be at risk as a result. Isolation kennels are not easy to find at short notice, particularly if you don't drive.

 

So, I'm not going at my vet for wanting to stick to the instructions on the label. I'm not even going at the vaccine manufacturers for not updating their data sheets: they are restrained by their own regulatory system. I think it's a difficult situation all round when the science can change quite rapidly as we find out more, but the legal/regulatory system in place to try to enforce best practice according to that science hasn't yet shifted, and each owner has to make their own decision about what is best for their situation.

 

However, until the regulatory system does move on, I'd rather that in general, people who aren't able to look into all the details and make a very careful decision like Sproggie obviously is, still vaccinate their dogs. That way the vulnerable ones who really can't be done still get the herd immunity benefit.

[sproggie14]

Well to update on this, I've not been able to find a single vax and it looks like this isn't available in this country.

 

So I did some more research and had a chat with our vet too. Cassie's titre test came back at 45 which was in the mild immunity bracket. The lab usually recommend a booster at less than 60. However, all the most recent research, the view of the WSAVA and some of the leading researchers in the field seems to be that the actual level of titre is largely irrelevant. The fact that she showed some antibody response shows that she has protection. The vet was happy that as distemper is quite rare these days she was safe with the immunity she has shown. Had it been parvo she showed a low immunity to then that would have been different as it is still around.

 

In case anyone is interested I'll post the links to the info I have found. I've mainly been looking at the research of a guy called Ronald Schultz who is head of pathobiology at Wisconsin University and on the WSAVA Vaccine Guidelines Group. He has been researching this issue since before I was born and has done numerous studies into vaccines and immunity. His own personal view is that dogs should have their puppy vaccinations, then be titre tested before a year old to make sure it's taken, and then never vaccinated again for the three core diseases (parvo, distemper and hepatitis) and this is the approach he takes with his own dog. In the WSAVA guidelines he puts forward a more conservative approach based on the wide variety of approaches and circumstances in different countries. Even so, their view is that, after receiving their puppy vax, dogs should not be vaccinated against the core three more than every three years and that any antibody result suggests protection.

 

With regard to what they call the non core vaccinations - lepto and kennel cough - they suggest that each dog be assessed individually based on their location and lifestyle. For our dogs we've decided against both since they don't go to shows, are not kennelled, and don't swim in ponds etc. For ours I think the risks outweigh the benefits personally. For the core three, we'll be testing them all and, if they show some antibodies, we won't vaccinate again.

 

Anyway, the links...

 

WSAVA guidelines (updated last month)

 

http://www.wsava.org/PDF/Misc/VaccinationGuidelines2010.pdf

 

Various articles and bits of research by Ronald Schultz

 

http://www.eskievet.com/Articles/vaccine%20duration.pdf

 

http://www.kanabvet.com/articles/Schultz_Vaccinations.pdf

 

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2002&Category=&PID=19539&O=Generic

 

http://www.puliclub.org/CHF/AKC2007Conf/What%20Everyone%20Needs%20to%20Know%20About%20Canine%20Vaccines.htm

 

Bizarrely we got chatting to someone in the vets this evening and when we said Cass was there for her vaccinations, she said Oh we don't vaccinate after they're 7 anymore, there's lots of research to suggest it's harmful and not necessary. So it seems like word is getting round!

 

Thanks everyone for your views. I find it very difficult when making choices which could affect their health but I'm happy and confident now that we're making the right choice.

[celeste]

Glad you found a solution that your happy with

I think your very lucky to have such a forward thinking vet