Lovely Walk Spoilt By Horrible News

[BillyMalc]

Me and the guys were having a rather nice walk this morning at the Carrs, a really nice park that gets very busy during the day. Being fairly early we managed to stay ahead of the morning crowd.

We met this guy, who we've seen for a few years in this park, with his dog, a not terribly well behaved but otherwise harmless boxer. The guy got made redundant over a year ago and set up his own dog walking business, hence he also had a Rhodesian cross girlie with him and a rottie boy who was pulling like a tank! Seeing him coming, I'd already put Sparks on his lead, because I was quite sure he would not be able to cope. Guy obviously wanted to talk to me, but I had to tell him to back off with the rott, so that both rott and Sparks would feel no reason to have a go at each other. So guy asks me if I'd heard the "rumours" - no I haven't! Turns out that a few weeks ago he was walking a few dogs, one of them a mastiff, while having a natter to someone. A family with a number of children came up behind them and they asked if they could stroke his dogs. While he had his back turned towards the mastiff, one of the kids, a toddler, apparently punched the mastiff on the head! Mastiff turned and snapped, and bit child in the face. You guess the rest: police got involved, dog got put to sleep. Absolutely horrid, bad mistake, could so easily have been avoided, but as I make mistakes on a daily basis I hold my tongue. But guy then carries on having a go at the parents of the toddler, who should have prevented the toddler from punching the dog in the first place, and the police who said that the dog should have been on a lead! He was very miffed when I didn't back him up on that. As the rott by this time was wanting to "investigate" Sparky again, and Sparky's eyes pleaded with me to take him away from the big guy, I walked off.

But I couldn't help but think: just imagine that you give your dog, who you love to bits, to a "professional" dog walker, to give him the exercise you want your dog to have, and you get the police at your door saying that the dog bit a child in the face and should be put to sleep! All because the person you thought was capable of protecting your dog had his back turned towards him when there were children about. That really gave me the chills and, sorry if I offend any more responsible dog walkers on the Refuge, confirmed to me why I will never employ anyone I don't know extremely well, to walk my dogs.

On another occasion I saw another "professional" dog walker allow a pack of 6 big dogs to just run ahead of him onto a field, without even knowing what was going on on said field, as it was surrounded by bushes. A girl was sat there, picking flowers and one of the dogs got very interested in her. Had she been scared and started screaming there would have been a drama!

And I know of another one who lets her lot off lead in the woods, lets them all run out of sight and calls them at the end of the walk and expects them to all come running back, happy and injury free. What the dogs have been up to in the meantime, she has no idea ....

 

Honestly, I think it's about time that dog walking businesses get regulated and people wanting to earn a living walking dogs should be required to follow courses and only be able to get licensed and insured upon passing an exam. For the sake of your dogs, my dogs and people's children.

Rant over.

[Ruthi (borrowadog)]

How very sad for the poor dog and its owners.

 

Of course the parents were partially to blame, but I must say that I only allow people to stroke my own dogs.

 

There are some excellent dog walkers out there, who I would trust with my own dogs. And obviously I think Petpals are great, but then we have strict rules about how we handle dogs. Our staff are trained, our dogs are carefully assessed, we never walk dogs off-lead without written owner permission, etc etc. But the other day I met the woman who claims to have been the first dog walker in the area, who has been going for 21 years. She had nine dogs off-lead!

 

Your man should, and probably will be prosecuted for not having the dog under control. And he is stupid, when I am near children I watch them like a hawk. If I have my eye on the children, I can see if they interact with the dogs. And I never give permission for children to touch the dogs, other than my own, and when I am holding them (they'd run away otherwise!) We have a rather protective staffy bitch that we walk (being staffy has nothing to do with her temperament, I might add), and I have insisted to the owner that she should be muzzled when we walk her. She's fine with people, but if she has a barney with another dog, and the human gets in the way, she is the one that is going to pay with her life, and my staff are going to be prosecuted.

 

Training and certification would be great. It would stop every unemployed dog 'lover' setting themselves up in the dog walking business and giving me a bad name! However I can't see it happening with the current government.

[BillyMalc]

Ruthi, I totally agree that there are probably some excellent dog walkers about and that, as with everything, they are the ones who are getting punished for the stupidity of others. However, after having heard this guy, and knowing about the other ones that I mentioned - and just now remembering 2 more dog walkers with packs of out of control dogs, I can't help but thinking that I'd put my dog's life on the line if I were to trust them with a dog walker (I was thinking of hiring a dog walker recently, just for a few times a week, but no way after hearing yet another horror story!).

The kids of this family had actually asked if they could stroke his dogs (!), then 2 started kicking a football right in front of his own dog, who went for the ball. He then went to "rescue" the ball from his dog's jaws and during that time this horrid incident happened. FFS, I'd be out of the way of kids with a football, and have Kiera on a lead if that were me, just to avoid an argument about her ruining the kids' football - nevermind allowing them to stroke my dogs! They have not been socialised with kids and I don't trust the kids not to do anything that could possibly upset them, because the kid will get a sweetie and my dog a needle That's my own dogs, I wouldn't ever trust kids to stroke someone else's dog who'd be in my care.

TBH I hope he gets prosecuted and put out of business, because he's obviously not learned anything from this incident, squarely blaming the parents. Because it's people like him who give both dogs and dog walkers a bad name

[chickentikka]

I work quite a way from home so it's fairly long hours - not ideal but needs must I was really unsure about using a dogwalker but felt that it wasn't fair on Dex and Fleur. The first company I used were really good to start with. I met the woman who'd be walking the dogs and she would only be taking out my 2, they kept changing walkers though and I wasn't happy in the end so I found someone else. It's a fairly small set up with 4 women who are all insured and CRB checked. They have their regular lady, but know the 'back up team'. I get a little write up of what they've been up to.

 

I probably pay a bit more than to someone who walked a pack but I'd not go down that route.

[merledogs]

There are some excellent dog walkers out there, who I would trust with my own dogs. And obviously I think Petpals are great, but then we have strict rules about how we handle dogs. Our staff are trained, our dogs are carefully assessed, we never walk dogs off-lead without written owner permission, etc etc.

I have used my local Petpals for visiting my dogs at home in the past when I've been unable to get home for lunch, but I personally wouldn't trust one person in particular with dog walking for reasons I won't go into here (but then admittedly I have very strict standards to be adhered to when walking my lot). I'm not casting aspersions on Petpals, I am sure you offer a good service but as with any franchise, the service varies according to which bit of it you use.

 

Going back to Billy's post, my thoughts are with the poor owner of that dog and the poor dog itself

Edited July 3, 2010 by merledogs

[ranirottie]

that is really sad for the child and the dog. Until today I always thought that dog walkers had to be registered with their local authorities the same as people have to be when they sit for dogs in their own homes. I now find that this isn't the case but I think it ought to be and there ought to be a limit on how many dogs one person can walk at a time too! x

[celeste]

Such a tragic outcome for both dog and child and the reason why I never let toddlers near my lot, even though they are all very child friendly, I just don't trust small children to act sensibly or parents to watch their child.

On the subject of " professional" dog walkers I've met good and bad, a lady used to walk up to 12 dogs at a time in Edinburgh, she would drive up to the park, open her van doors and let this wave of dogs come hurtling out, she insisted she had control over them all, what a fool, it would only take one fight, or one dog to run off and then where would she be, she was eventually stopped as there were so many complaints about her. I have also had the pleasure of meeting an incredibly responsible lady who would only ever walk 3 dogs at a time and all carefully assessed as to compatibility, she even went to dog behaviour seminars (which is where I met her) so she could improve her service and the care she gave the dogs. As with most things in life there are good un's and bad un's.

[JulesB]

Poor dog, poor child

 

I think with dog walkers it's a case of getting exactly the right person, going with your gut instinct and always watching out for what your dogs might be telling you. I had to tell my first walker I didn't want to use her any more. Tess was making it obvious she wasn't happy, and that was good enough for me. I think the way that a lot of them do it is to take on lots of dogs, tour round picking them up and keeping them in a big crated van all day, doing group walks as they tour round, before dropping them off again. Being in a van all day and being walked off lead in big packs was not at all what I wanted for my dogs. I had specifically said I never, ever wanted my two off the lead, and I found out afterwards nobody had taken any notice of this, despite me explaining at length about Tess and how she hated people crowding her, approaching her etc. and how she was not great at meeting other dogs.

 

My current walker (if she ever moves area, I'm moving with her ), is fantastic though, I couldn't praise her highly enough. She's become a friend and the dogs really love her. She was fantastic with Tess and used lots of positive reinforcement with her so she eventually would practically put her own lead on and bounce out of the door when she arrived She's involved in rescue and fosters too so we are on the same wavelength.

 

It's very difficult to find someone you absolutely trust though, I know I've been lucky.

[chickentikka]

I also think that the 'good' dogwalkers get snapped up - I have a regular slot booked in and if I go on holiday have to pay half the fee, which I didn't like at first but then thought I'm employing them and don't want to come back off hols and them say no one can come out as someone else is booked in for lunchtime (they come in and look after the chooks and the furries when I'm away now anyway). When I've been home sick I've seen how D&F recognise Jane's car and shoot to the door, she hasn't always known if I'm home (after being ill in bed with the previous walker and them taking 20 mins and doing the dogs separately I have hid upstairs) and she's fab -they get an hour together and she's lovely with them. I think it is more difficult to get someone good if you just want your dog walked every once in a while - especially between about 11 and 3.

[cycas]

It's all very well to call for regulation - but think about it. Regulation is expensive: you need people to administer it, you need a system for keeping records, you need inspectors to check things, an enforcement system and so on.

 

Who will pay for all that? The dog walker? The owners of the dogs that are walked? Presumably we can't argue this should be funded from general taxation, given that the country is already billions in the red and jobs and other services are being cut.

 

So, suddenly dog walking is more expensive. Isn't that going to result in a lot more people not being able to afford to get a dog walker in, so more dogs getting inadequate exercise, and as a result, being more hyper, less well socialised, in fact, more likely to dig their way out, damage property, injure children in the home (which is where most dog-child injuries take place)?

 

There are already a lot of people who feel they can't afford help with walking their dogs but could really do with it, and I suspect that dog walking, with all its possible faults, probably prevents more incidents than it causes.

 

This guy was foolish, but he was also unlucky. A bunch of circumstances came together that went bad, none of them on their own disastrous.

 

- the owners of the dog picked a walker who clearly didn't have the experience and common sense needed to walk their dog.

- the dog was offlead

- he allowed a small child to approach the dog

- he was distracted and turned his back

- the parents of the child failed to supervise adequately

- the child attacked the dog

- the dog reacted violently rather than running away or cowering, as many dogs would have done

- it was a large powerful dog that was able to do a lot of damage, and of a breed unlikely to be given much leeway by the authorities.

 

OK all those things together do add up to a bad situation, and I too would be devastated if that were my dog (or my child!) - but it's still something that was quite unlikely, all those things coming together. Most of the time, he'd have got away with it. You can't regulate to control all risk, and most people cannot hope to provide every service that their dog will ever need from pup to oldie themselves. At some point, you have to trust someone - usually, several someones.

 

It's not clear to me that regulation would necessarily stop it happening again, either. If the owners of the dog had signed a form to say the dog could safely be walked offlead, and the dogwalker had a certificate from the local authority, would that have stopped this from happening? Would this dogwalker have been obviously, blatantly bad enough at his job to fail to get a certificate?

 

Dog boarding is regulated, true - but that's a long way from saying that all dog boarding services are run by people who can be fully trusted with any dog and no boarding service ever puts a dog into any kind of risk, or treats a dog in a way that's inappropriate for its age, breed, temperament etc. And dogwalking, unlike boarding, takes place in public places where it is covered by the laws on keeping dogs under control, and can be watched and monitored by the public.

[Ruthi (borrowadog)]

Its not that unlikely, you know. We've had a dog we walk hit with a stick - by a lad with learning difficulties that wasn't under proper supervision. If the dog (who happened to be a powerful bull breed) hadn't been on lead, there would have been an equally nasty outcome.

[cycas]

I didn't mean that any one of the items that led to the disaster was unlikely - only that all of them coming together like that is relatively improbable, because if any of the factors involved had been different, it wouldnt' have happened. Yes, the dogwalker made a mistake, but it was really only a culpable mistake because he knew the child was approaching the dog and trusted the parents to supervise the interaction rather than doing it himself. If he'd come round a corner and found the kid there unexpectedly, surely the same thing could have happened?

 

Something like a child with learning disabilities getting violent with a stick - I'm not sure how you plan for that, and I don't see how regulation of commercial dog walking would stop it happening, it could just as easily happen to someone walking their own dog.

 

Unless we say that that no dog large enough to bite hard should ever be off the lead in any location where they might encounter a member of the public, this sort of thing is very occasionally going to happen. (actually, I'm not sure that even that would stop it happening entirely, if someone rushed at me unexpectedly with a stick and hit one of my dogs, I'm not sure I could guarantee to be on the ball fast enough to stop them retaliating even if they were on lead. Not that I think they would retaliate, but how can one be certain?).

 

When my dogs go to their dogsitter, I sign a form to say that they may be walked off lead. I accept there is a risk there, as I do not know how my dogs would react if attacked, but I think the risk is relatively small, and so far as I can see, it's the same risk that I run when I walk them off lead myself (possibly slightly smaller, as I suspect my dogsitter is a more careful walker than I am and less easily distracted!)

 

I just think that one guy operating sub-optimally as a dogwalker isn't a great argument for regulation, when most people who are bitten by dogs are not bitten by those being walked by dogwalkers, but by their own dog inside their own house.

Edited July 4, 2010 by cycas

[BillyMalc]

I agree with you that you can't regulate for every eventuality. They're trying that enough as it is, which has as a result that everybody is leading totally stifled lives, too scared to set one foot in front of the other, for fear of falling foul of some obscure local byelaw or other. At the same time, all this regulating has stopped people from using common sense, instead relying on everybody else adhering to "the rules". This is what this guy was saying though, and that's what got my goat: he was saying that the parents should have used common sense, but completely absolved himself from that judgement. My worry is that, because he saw nothing wrong with his own reaction to the incident, it could potentially happen again.

I'm also worried about the number of people who start dog walking businesses without having the knowledge needed to pull this off successfully. Just loving dogs isn't enough! And considering the number of people I've seen about and heard of who proclaim that dogs in their care will be safe and having a good time, when that obviously isn't the case I am seriously worried about the effect that these dog walkers will have on the dogs in their care, as well as the general public. Irresponsible dog owners and sensationalist media are doing enough as it is to give all dogs a bad rep. Really we don't need well-meaning but ill-informed so-called "professional" dog walkers to add to that

[cycas]

That's certainly true - maybe some sort of professional association and voluntary-but-important code of practice would help - I am a big believer in education and raising standards through raising expectations!

 

Or is there one already and I don't know about it..?

[Ruthi (borrowadog)]

The trouble is that this man is clearly not able to see his own part in the disaster - and if the dog had been his own he'd have reacted in the same way. Of course walking lots of dogs you don't know well increases the risks, because its difficult then to watch them all. To be honest there are loads of folk out there who shouldn't be in charge of a dog, let alone four. I have them applying to me for jobs all the time! One little Bichon and they think they know about dogs!

 

Its possible that we wouldn't need full regulation, just a professional association that trains and self-regulates. If we can get the owners to the point that they are asking - are you a member of the 'Association of Professional Dogwalkers?' - but that is probably pie in the sky. I, for one, haven't got the time or energy to start it! Dogwalking is not a high profit business (unless you do it irresponsibly) because owners aren't really prepared to pay enough for the service. But if we don't uphold standards we just hand more ammunition to the anti-dog brigade.

 

Oh, and it wasn't a disabled child that hit our dog. It was a full grown man in the company of a carer who refused to take the stick away from him when requested saying 'He won't do anything'.